Datura stramonium

[Guest]

mutant, what are your experiences with psychedelics ? to what point have you reached through them ?

 

[lol*fan]

O hai.
I have read this thread.
I like to believe that other people help us to reflect upon ourselves.
I think GOD is heavily reflecting upon himself in this thread.
I also think, from the posts I have read by GOD in the past 24 hours, he is not looking at the bright side of life. I don't regard this as right or wrong. I do think it's slightly natural, since people that have taken a lot of shit in their life tend to adjust their view of the world according to their experiences.
GOD, I wish I could say anything to make you feel any better, but I might be misunderstanding you completely, therefore I'll shut up.
ktnxbai.

 

[mutant]

mutant, what are your experiences with psychedelics ? to what point have you reached through them ?

what do you want me to tell you? list of substances? be more specific. What point I have reached? Again, be more specific - but how do you connect this thing in this thread? you think we should discuss everything in here?

 

[Guest]

i just want to know your experience regarding psychedelics, so i can contextualize all you say.
why are you so defensive ?

 

[????????]

why are you so defensive ?

+1

 

[mutant]

I am not defensive - I just found it very inspecific. Any way.

If I have to answer in such a general question I would say that I have read and reasearched much about psychoactives - also for the degree of my interest , I would say I have consumed much less actuall material than the typical psychonaut

I am a pot regular and alcohol drinker as well. I don't think the classic psychedelics can only regarged psychedelics, but in the general meaning of the word also any psychoactive or activity [such as playing music, drums, dance etc] / experience on which some inner part of us reveals itself, any significant activity, thoughts, expression, laughter, crying etc is manifested in some way or another.

I have had several experiences with lsd [8-10], most of them more than 5 years ago, one with HBWR {LSA} this summer, several experiences with amanitas [muscaria/pantherina - deliberately never a breakthrough one], salvia divinorum, mdma, speed, a couple experiences with coke.

i have also been exploring more obscure plants like other psychoactive Salvias [they proove rather sedating] or Coleus blumei

I also got into cultivation of various ethnobotanical and ornamental plants last year, I pick mushrooms and generally receive the greater satisfaction and pleasure by being close to nature, growing my plants or picking my own mushrooms, for table or to experiment.

Now.. a point??? about psychedelics? which of them??

lsd/lsa are a different cake for me compared to salvia or amanita.

I suppose you might ask me about psilocybes - why I haven't done any - pretty natural questions - well I intend to do some time, not in a hurry - I was never in a hurry for anything in this field. Psilocybes are not so common in as other stuff in my country and in my area I haven't found any in the wild yet [i mostly pick in woodland, not grasslands]. We might propably grow some with some friend at some time...

I believe tha potential is enormous. One can use the same substance for a dozen of differnet reasons... But to set a table of discussion you have to be more specific in your questions.

Sufficient?

 

[JosVU]

So show me proof of what you say . What people ? Where ? When ?

Schultes, Hofman and Rätsch describe the use of datura in there book.

Disavowing the use of this volume as a guide to taking hallucinogens though they specify effective doses, experts overview the ritual/medicinal uses, botanical characteristics, chemistry, and range of 97 such plants featured in many unique color and b&w illustrations (some new to this edition). Schultes was the late director emeritus of the Botanical Museum at Harvard U. Coauthors are A. Hoffman, the Swiss biochemist who discovered LSD, and Ratsch, of the German Society for Ethnomedicine. Healing Arts Press published the first English translation of this 1979 milestone in the field in 1992.

Now you know who, where and when.
They report about entire tribes using datura/nightshade. Children from age 14 orso would have a 28 day ceremony where an abundance of datura is taken. After this month they forget everything there mother ever told them and they are man! Shamans in south america use it also holy man in india. And i dont have the book with me now so i cant qoute from it but my guess is that these arent the only 2 cultures that use plants from the datura family.

For more info i'd suggest to buy and read this book.

"But shamans and witches all over the world were using it" - "They have learned to benefit from it and use it for spiritual purposes."
There are imature people playing games calling themselves witches , but they are not witches . There is no evidence that real witches , the wicca , ever used Datura . Shamanan come from Siberia and there is no evidence that they ever used Datura

Calling witches and shamans immature people isnt realy mature dude. He isnt talking about man and woman who abuse datura and play silly games with them. Hes talking about shamans that can work with these plants. Maybe wicca and sibiran shamans didnt use those plants, other healers did/do.

PS the fact that children can forget everything there mother told them in a month proofs to me that this aint just something you want to mess with.

 

[GOD]

"now please YOU give some link suggesting the name is after the many fatalities that came from the plant. "

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-836 ... ?Q=Trumpet

I have read what i said several times . why dont you prove that the name comes from somewhere else ?

Its called Angels trumpet for the same reason its called Devils weed , or in navaho "insane maker" , or in Seri "plant that makes insane" , in Mexico Hierba del diablo , Loco weed , Poison lily , in Spanish Yerba del diablo , Devils trumpet , Devils apple , Devils trumpet flower of Cylon , Insane herb , Cojon del diablo , Higuera loca = insane fig , Manzana del diablo = Devils apple , Pomme de diable , in German Teufels apfel , in German Engels Trompete , in Mexico Torna-loco = insane maker .

"Last time you were so sure that amanita urine inebriation is a myth, you didn't continue it for long."

This thread is about imature people with no experience and no training abusing Datura not about Amanita urine myths . Again you twist what i have said . I have never said that its imposible , i said that it is possible but that one would have to collect several urinations and boil them down . I still say that and you have not proved otherwise . You have not provided one single believable , proven case of somone doing it . You have only managed to find one , unconfirmed , unbelievable sexual fantasy from someone who was having a wank .

WHY DONT YOU PROVE IT . DRINK ONE REAL DOSE OF URINE AND FILM IT AND POST IT .

"No, no, no. This is what YOU have learnt from psychedelics."

Thank you . Its what everyone who has experience with hallucinogens can learn . Plant hallucinogens are teachers and each has its lessons to teach . You have next to no experience with hallucinogens as you have shown and admited , and you have learned nothing .

" you said it's impossible to determine this plants potency because it's so varied, so you might die if you try, which is wrong,"

You are wrong , you have only to study a little bit and you will read that over and over again . Try reading "The encyclopedea of psychoactive plants" by Christian Rätsch and you will read it there .

" I don't think anyone ever poisoned anyone by exchanging information on some plant."

You are not exchanging knowledge or information . You are spreading dangeropus confusion and that is what can kill people .

" Says a lot about human nature"

What you say says everything about your nature . All you are doing is confusing things , twisting things and arguing . Nothing positive comes out of what you say . Nothing helpful .

"What does it say about me? "

That you are mentaly confused , that you are twisting things , that you are a dangerous , ignorant idiot just arguing about things that you have no experience of and no knowledge of , that you are just causing trouble masturbating your ego . That you are calous and crippled inside . That you hate yourself and the people around you . That you think that people harming themselves is entertaining . That you care about nobody .

"Why did you do it repeatedly ? "

Because i was a fool . In those days there wasnt the internet or the drug information books that are available today . The only information was third hand pseudo knowledge . It was in the days when all psychoactive plants were believed to be like LSD and give you a trip .

"tell us the story with the bigger than death dose and how you survived"

Thats just another proof of your ignorance . You dont know what you are talking about . You have not studied what you are raving about . If you had you would know what different doses do . You would know that there is a dose that normaly kills a person and that some times , very rarely , some people have a bigger dose and survive . The bigger than death dose causes a different level of effects than normal , and its the only dose that causes those effects .

"I am not defensive "

You are defensive , confused , agressive , dangerous and an imature ignorant idiot .

"but how do you connect this thing in this thread?"

Because normal people see from your hysterical ranting and raveing that you have no experience of life and that you are confused and have learned nothing .

"you think we should discuss everything in here?"

No , i think hes just asking the obvious questions that any normal person would ask when confronted with someone as sick as you . You obviously do think that "we should discuss everything in here" because you are doing it over and over again . For instance with your silly claims about some Amanitas , a drug that you admited that you have no real experience with . A drug that you were obviously to afraid to take a working dose of .

" I would say I have consumed much less actuall material than the typical psychonaut " - "I suppose you might ask me about psilocybes - why I haven't done any"

Thats more than obvious . Thats probably why you were asked the question .

"Psilocybes are not so common in as other stuff in my country and in my area I haven't found any in the wild yet [i mostly pick in woodland, not grasslands]."

You dont know much about what you are talking about , but you still talk . If you live where you said that you live Psilocybe mushrooms are common . If you had any real knowledge of them you would know that and you would be able to find enough of them .

I would advise you to educate yourself and get some experience of life and with hallucinogens and stop talking so much confused crap .

This is my last post on this thread untill someone posts something sensible .

Jos ,

"Schultes, Hofman and Rätsch describe the use of datura in there book. "

Yes , people with thousands of years of tradition and experience behind them . People who have learned from and with experts . Not ignorant people like mutant talking about things that they know nothing of . The thread is about people with no knowledge and no training abusing Datura . Thats what i`m talking about .

"For more info i'd suggest to buy and read this book.

I am fortunate enough to have read that book many times , i have a copy of it for more than 20 years wich i bought from and was signed by Albert Hofmann . I have also had the privaledge of talking to Albert Hofmann on the subject of Daturas and scopolomine . i also know Christian Rätsch personaly and have talked several times with him about Daturas and scopolomine . Both of them have told me that they would never take either of those substances oraly and that they would never recomend anyone else to do it either . Neither of them or any other scientists and writters that i know or have met would do it either , and non of them talk the childish , ignorant crap that mutant does because they have learned something from their lives and their psychedelic experiences .

"Calling witches and shamans immature people isnt realy mature "

I have never called witches imature . I have said that the people who call themselves witches today are not witches . They are imature people playing games . All those people do is try to copy the things that they have read about witches from sources that originate from the inquisition . The storys from the inquisition are storys from people that were forced under torture to admit things that were the fantasys of crazy catholics . They dont reflect what the wicca realy believe/d and live/d . Authentic reports about wicca come from the 10th and 11th centurys , before the inquisition and they totaly differ from the inquisition fantasys . They say that wicca were disconected secret groups and that real wicca didnt talk about it or make adverts . Wicca didnt fly on broomsticks , curse people or turn people into frogs .

 

[mutant]

Because normal people see from your hysterical ranting and raveing

You have not studied what you are raving about

Well, a quick read of several posts of you adressing to me are the definition of ranting/raving. If you weren't so hostile, I would feel sorry for you. I would say that the level of your fanaticism is a curiosity but I guess it's what lol*fan said "... people that have taken a lot of shit in their life tend to adjust their view of the world according to their experiences..."

So, tell us how to be like you, prophet of classic psychedelics!

But first some thing about me:

The fact that I have not been eating classic psychedelics or any drugs like it's candy sweets is something that I take pride about. If 'having experience with psychedelics' is about raving about "the ultimate truth" and acting like a 13-year-old that someone took his candy-bar against some guy that expresses a different opinion to your 'prophecies', then I am fucking glad I have limited experience. Also if you really met Hoffman and Raetsch [who gives a fuck about the signatures anyway, I am not superstitious - oh, sorry, you, the enlightened guy the spreads the word about the ultimate truth, wooohoo, hey look I got a book from '78 with Hoffmans signature on !!!] , cool, good for you, now you can use it as proof that what you say must be respected, and as proof for the enlightment you now have [how many times did you say you read it?] . Along with your consumption of psychedelics, it makes you an expert in the field, right?

I will quote you again, since you are really experienced psychedelic prophet and nice quotes of enlighted people should be heard again and again:

All i need is loads of MONEY , coke , hash , sex , a porsch , a cleaning lady , (with big tits) , a holiday in india , a new liver , a flat screen TV , satalite TV , plastic surgery , more money , a new computer , sex , money , a life , sex , grass , coke , LSD , DMT , tits.....................

The meaning of life in a few words by your psychedelic guru ....

also, another burst of enlightment is here, against me , the agressive guy that doesn't have a clue of what he is talkin about and gives out dangerous information

That you are mentaly confused , that you are twisting things , that you are a dangerous , ignorant idiot just arguing about things that you have no experience of and no knowledge of , that you are just causing trouble masturbating your ego . That you are calous and crippled inside . That you hate yourself and the people around you . That you think that people harming themselves is entertaining . That you care about nobody .

Fuck man, I do not really care about arguing with you, and I really find no reason to quote each and every thing you say to give you the answer - it's pretty obvious psychedelics [the classics] are your life, you're a fanatic and if I were Raestch I would surely use you as a worn-off lab rat. I already feel somewhat dirty from quoting and replying to you - but hey, I will wake up clean and happy tomorow morning.

I will close with some datura-relevant comments you chose not to speak so much about [it's where the rhythm of your raving slows down a bit] :

Here I am asking you why you did datura MANY times over the period of 4 years, not why you did it in the first place...

[quote:3e1081qn]"Why did you do it repeatedly ? "

Because i was a fool . In those days there wasnt the internet or the drug information books that are available today . The only information was third hand pseudo knowledge . It was in the days when all psychoactive plants were believed to be like LSD and give you a trip . [/quote:3e1081qn]

Because you were a fool. You said you used it many times, over 4 years. Now how fool were you, because if you were so fucking fool back then [when was it anyway?] I can't see how you became so intelligent all of a sudden - or is it the experience with the REAL psychedelics that showed you the ultimate truth, and now it's all fixed? How many times did you have to ingest it to understand you were a fool, or you were becoming less and less fool with each time you ate it? [common sense says that the more times you have to be burnt to understand fire will burn you, the more of a fool you are]

So, what days where that , that all psychoactive plants were thought to be like LSD ? Fuck - I am pretty sure there was not such an era, just idiots who are after the next high. And... thought by whom? the hippies? And how much lsd did you consume to suppose every psychoactive plant is like LSD? or everyone was supposing that? Man, what kind of people did you hang around with? Did you tell your friend Raetsch about all these? I would suggest you not to tell him, he seems like a super intelligent guy - Or what you really want to say is what Raoul Duke says in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas", that you were a street freek, eating whatever you could? But still, I can't seem to understand how a guy who ate datura repeatedly, many times in a 4-year period, now knows all about the truth and bashed anyone who would say anything about tropane plants. Or I cannot speak about datura, because I am not idiot enough to eat it repeatedly, even though I see its effects are awful , to finally undestand lsd and psilocybin give the answer to the big questions?

Also note that there were indeed books in the 70s, and actually daturas is known as a dangerous toxic weed since the first botanical books, maaaaaaaaaaaaany centuries before the 70s.

Wicca didnt fly on broomsticks , curse people or turn people into frogs .

Now, I'll be damned! All my expectations on witchs and tropanes are now vanished!

Please write more about you own datura experiences, wise guy! And if you feel like it, insult me some more. I have a nice life outside the pc anyway, you're not going to ruin my persona anyway, only ridicule yourself a bit more...

 

[Guest]

if all knowledge was in books, people would only read them...the first psychonaut did not had any book to read about the subject, did he ?

 

[lol*fan]

I will quote you again, since you are really experienced psychedelic prophet and nice quotes of enlighted people should be heard again and again:

All i need is loads of MONEY , coke , hash , sex , a porsch , a cleaning lady , (with big tits) , a holiday in india , a new liver , a flat screen TV , satalite TV , plastic surgery , more money , a new computer , sex , money , a life , sex , grass , coke , LSD , DMT , tits.....................

The meaning of life in a few words by your psychedelic guru ....

Err... mutant, I have not read this quote in its original content, but I just cannot believe that anyone who would write this would be serious. In my opinion this can only be meant ironic. I thought I should mention this, since this is the third time I see you quoting this, and it kind of makes you look a bit dumb, while from everything else you say you seem to be a bright and intelligent person.

As for the discussion on datura, very interesting. GOD, it's a shame that you're so fired up, blocking a sensible and fruitful discussion. Is it not possible for you to first accept mutant as a sane, intelligent person with his own perspective and ideas, which to me don't seem as stupid as you make them out to be? I too am interested in why you repeatedly used datura over the time of 4 years and hope you can speak about it some more, without being hostile or judgemental towards others. Save yourself the energy and just speak from the heart, please.

 

[mutant]

if all knowledge was in books, people would only read them...the first psychonaut did not had any book to read about the subject, did he ?

Of course!!! That's why I respect all psychonauts that do serious bioessays in more obscure or unknown plants. Tropane plants are not all that unknown, but very few people have something practical to tell you, either than "stay away" - for a very good reason, of course. Every serious man ought to tell 'he wouldn't advise datura to anyone' to anyone asking about this plant and this is because if someone HAS to experiment with it, it must be a 100% HIS conscious decision.

Also, through reading and carefully studying [in the essence of it, not to just say you read the fucking thing!] can help serious investigators to see the mistakes and problems and proceedures others went through and their consequences, without having to live through them. Psychedelic phenomena are reoccuring. Intelligence and good judgement of course are essential for someone to be able to see through the surface of all the information available - because if in the 70's there was no internet and books about psychactives, now we got too much information, and have to somehow be able to pick bits and pieces of info here and there!

That's why a serious psychonaut should be able to tell apart: the idiots who are just looking for the next high and the serious ones who have the integrity and sensibility to try and see clearly, and respect their body and mind, as well as their collaborator's. Remember I told you I am also investigating psychoactive salvias and coleus also doing bioessays on them from time to time.

But still, if anyone evaluates the integrity and personality of someone by the hundreds of times he has ingested psilocybin and LSD , and by the number of heroic doses he has ingested, then, to me this guy is no explorer, he has no clear mind, he is a believer, a psychedelic theist, ultimately a person who resides in his own world - I will listen very carefully to his experiences and to what he has to say about psychoactives, but other than that, this attitude doesn't reveal a stable, well balanced individual in my book, regardless of psychonautism - so his patronising advice only confirms my initial impression about this stance. Nothing personal, there are many such people in psychedelic forums with such an attitude. I take whatever useful from anyone and anything, and go on with my own pathway.

lol*fan , yeah, you're right. I already said I felt dirty to respond to this douche of unjust insults and passionately wrongful accusations of GOD, but fuck, here is the context of his quote , if you are really curious:

Just a thought, impression.[link to thread]

 

[tryptonaut]

Not perfectly on-topic, but I just saw a documentary on "magic plants" on tv. Of course they had Dr. Christian Rätsch in it, who was talking about Belladonna (atropa belladonna, or deadly nightshade).
He was pretty cool about it and said that the cherries had been - in small amounts, like 3 cherries - eaten by hunters, because they would get enhanced vision of the color red. He also said that belladonna had been used in magic potions and medicines (and he sounded pretty confident about that)

Then he picked a cherry from the belladonna and ate it, then turned to the camera and said "hmm, yummy! And see, I'm not dead, so it can't be as deadly as many people say!"
He also clearly said that taking belladonna, especially in higher amounts, was not advisable, but it sounded a bit like he said that because he was on tv and didn't want to encourage stupid teenagers to take it. I think he has experimented with nightshades himself...

 

[sopor]

title/torrent please?

 

[tryptonaut]

All I could find out is that it was produced in 2005 by the Austrian tv station ORF.

it seems they also talked about amanitas - but I missed that part, I only caught half of it on the German channel BR-alpha.
Some info on the programme: http://magazine.orf.at/alpha/programm/2 ... skreis.htm

 

[mutant]

Very intersting... I wonder if it exists anywhere with subs, by german are far
from perfect.

 

[Brugmansia]

Actually, the alkaloids are pharmceuticals too. In fact, if you can lay your hands on each product individually, it's much 'safer' to use.

Scopoderm TTS (Novartis) comes in units of 1,5 mg scopolamine, there are pharmaceutical Atropine units of 0.4 mg each. I'm not sure of Hyoscyamine. I thought Terence McKenna did it with extracts too?

It can kill you in a variety of ways, veins expanding, lose of breath, dried out body etc. Although doing profound and lasting-research decreases the risks.

 

[mutant]

Yep, they are... Some say it's more easy to estimate the doses like that but I you still have to be very careful on whatever you decide to do.

 

[gayedohi]

would you as a bare handed 4 year old go into combat against battle hardened fully armed warriors? that's what your doing. from my experience and what i have learned from my teachers is the only ones who pursue that path are not the ones seeking enlightenment but power for domination and control. it's not the healers but the sorcerers that seek it's power. just like people are different so are our plant spirits. choose your friends carefully. sincerely gayedohi, peace shield aho

 

[Dantediv86]

er....whu?