Quoi de neuf ?

Bienvenue sur Psychonaut.fr !

Le forum des amateurs de drogues et des explorateurs de l'esprit

Can Ego be changed?

  • Auteur de la discussion Auteur de la discussion Lion
  • Date de début Date de début
^true, but it makes the discussion somewhat of a 10-way street where people stay in their own lane and don't see the other's point of view.

Guess there wouldn't be a discussion if we would all see each others point of view, but still.
 
Sorry for not thinking what everybody else thinks :p
 
i think there is a collective ego as well which could be called cultural ego. that's where traditions and stuff seem to be rooted. also i think the collective ego interacts with all the egos on the planet... it's somehow in constant flow of exchange of informations...

i also agree that ego in itself isn't necesarilly something bad or avoidable...it's like it's there to keep itself alive or in motion in order to fulfill some sort of mission or operation.

that reminds me a bit of sigmund freud's model with the "I" and the "Over-I"...

peace
 
The ego is a necessity to be transcended. It exists to be killed and know better :twisted:
 
your ego construct changes from moment to moment.
I when im with a friend am not the same I as i am with my mother.

Good point!
And when I take 100mg of mdma then my ego is 150% like that towards my mother, only for everyone... It's just a matter of brain chemicals all the time.
When I get depressed my ego becomes self-centered and hateful, when I have a glorious shroom trip my ego dissolves into the whole one...

What is that fucking ego anyways? ;)
 
In my view, and using an analogy here, the ego is some kind of bottomless coffer. Almost everyone has it. And inside it, the coffer, we keep our countless masks wich we use everyday. Some people struggle to use the same masks as often as possible, others use diferent masks to each situation that they experience.

In my personal experience, I feel that change of masks through my day. Due to job issues, family, friends, 'strangers', etc... I don't feel it as a pleasant change. Though, I think I need it, or else I would already be fired from my job and stuff like that.

My question now is, do we need this constant changes? In someway, they are what, particularly, make us humans and so called inteligent beings. This ability of perceiving reality in different ways and interact with it in different ways and with different feelings and responsibilitys, is really amazing/mysterious and magical.

Though, everything is change, I 'know'. But isn't this change somekind of addiction? (sorry if the question makes no sense, but that just came into my mind now)
I always try to be in balance with my thoughts, my surroundings and what is happening in the world in general. But some times it's hard to be steady in the middle of the "black and white" 'game' of the world. Sooner or later, I have to taste a bit of the two poles and return to the center.

Wouldn't we still be living in the caves and learning how to make fire, if it wasn't for this 'speedbullet' change that, many of us, experience?
 
GhostlyOne17 a dit:
http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm - my personal favorite web article by osho I believe.

That was really good.

edit: I was reading the book I wrote about here, and this bit I liked very much and found it relevant to the ego discussion:

James Kent a dit:
Navel-gazing is a kind of obsessive introspection on the nature of the self, or more specifically, on the nature of the transpersonal self. I don't know if the term navel-gazing actually grew out of a specific psychedelic exercise of grokking one's own belly-button, but the concept is quite clear. The navel represents the connection to mother, which at one time physically connected you to another human being, which kind of demolishes the perspective of a wholly individual self. As I stated previously, grokking provides a kind of temporal depth — an explicit history — of whatever it is you are looking at, so when looking at the navel it is perfectly natural to wander back in time in the mind's eye to a place in space-time where the umbilical cord was still attached, when you were still in utero, unformed, dreaming, barely aware. The existential impact of such an exercise can be enormous, a total paradigm splitter for those who think of themselves purely as individuals, as opposed to pieces of a larger interconnected system. But the reality is that we are not purely individuals, we are encoded protein structures that begin growing when seed fertilizes egg, and everything else we invent about ourselves is more or less an illusion formed by perception, language, and memory: the illusion of self, the illusion of identity, the illusion of ego. Shattering these illusions is the first step in path towards the psychedelic epiphany.

An epiphany is a divine revelation about the nature of the world or the self; an experience so powerful it forever shapes the way you view the world. Some epiphanies are welcome blessings, some are very difficult to cope with, but what is consistent across all epiphanies is that they are 1) indicative of a deeper truth about the self, 2) paradigm shattering, and 3) impossible to deny. We have already discussed how even the most trivial details can take on cosmic significance within the psychedelic experience — and how these inflated views can distort reality into delusional territory — but since concepts of ego and self are basically delusions to begin with, whatever we choose to believe about ourselves is "true" at that time regardless of external verification. For example: When you are dreaming, you may be younger, older, bigger, smaller, somewhere else in space or time, yet you are always you. Even though what you believe about your "self" at that moment (in the dream) may be delusional, it does not make you any less you, you are still you no matter who or what or where you think you are. You can think you are a good person and still be you; you can think you are a bad person and still be you. Although the first-person perspective of individual self (subject) always remains in tact, constructs of the ego are transient and mutable, and what we choose to believe about ourselves makes us who we are. In this sense, the ego is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and one that can be completely undone with a tiny pinch of psychedelic molecules.

Now I know there are those of you who will resist this notion, that the ego is such a fragile construct, or that the self is a delusion, but look at it this way: What happens to the ego if you loose your memory (as in amnesia)? What happens to identity if you loose the ability to form lasting concepts (as in schizophrenia)? Your body may still move around and do things, but the self basically dissolves like dust in the wind. Our notion of self depends on our ability to constantly update and remember the internalized image of who we are — or who we are supposed to be — and how we stay true to that image or how we adapt it to meet our circumstances. And so, with the advent of psychedelic exploration in the sixties, New Age ideals of "finding the inner self" or "transcending the ego" became part of the Western lexicon for the human condition, even if most people didn't really understand what either of those things meant. Yet the search for deeper understanding of the self is the fundamental premise of all psychedelic therapy. Weather you want to take a Freudian approach (analyzing birth experiences and early life imprinting) or a Jungian approach (viewing the self as a part of a larger integrated whole), both of these models are valid when attempting to construct a workable ideal of the self and ego, and both fit naturally with the psychedelic experience. This is precisely why both Freudian and Jungian psychologists were quick to embrace psychedelics in therapy: they provide access to deep memory recall as well as perspectives that transcend the self and place it within in a larger context. Elements of both the intimately personal and the universally transpersonal can be accessed within the psychedelic state, and since all psychology and psychotherapy is an attempt to achieve harmony between the transient notions of the inner self and the cold hard facts of external reality, the value of such profound personal and transpersonal perspectives cannot be overstated.
 
all hail jungan theories!!
 
Ego is drive of our animal life.

It can be trained and changed thru sufism in islam or meditation etc in budism.

Untrained ego is called "nefs-i emmare" meaning "ordering ego". If you train it appropriately, you could reach "nefs-i mutmain" meaning "satisfied ego". The pinnacle of the sufi education is "nefs-i safiyane" meaning "purified ego". Nefs or ego can not be satisfied or purified by obeying its orders but consistently resisting to it. Once ego is trained you could open your soul to eternal love of God which embraces each and every thing created.

Ordering ego is the source of all our sufferings.
 
"if you suddenly find yourself living on the streets your ego will change."

Exactly . Wait untill you are homless and hungry then you will understand. It doesnt realy matter about personal definitions ego is what ego is , its something one can experience but not fully pin down with words .

"And when I take 100mg of mdma then my ego is 150% like that towards my mother, only for everyone... It's just a matter of brain chemicals all the time. When I get depressed my ego becomes self-centered and hateful, when I have a glorious shroom trip my ego dissolves into the whole one"

Thats undenyable proof .

I also like what Random said with his analagy .

"Ego is drive of our animal life. "

Another good one .

Ego is a mental function with deep roots in the subconscious . It what helps us to survive . Its the bit thats in charge when a child shouts "me mommy , me mommy , chocky , chocky" . Its whats behind greed and what most people mistake as being themselves . Ego is a thing to tame , to free oneselve of . To do that one has to stop the action reaction cycle and change it to action thought reaction .
 
"Ego is a mental function with deep roots in the subconscious . It what helps us to survive . Its the bit thats in charge when a child shouts "me mommy , me mommy , chocky , chocky" . Its whats behind greed and what most people mistake as being themselves . Ego is a thing to tame , to free oneselve of . To do that one has to stop the action reaction cycle and change it to action thought reaction"

A very good description of ego.

Surely it has to be tamed. You can do it by restricting its needs i.e. living a poor life like an indian fakir, a budist monk. Why then all homeless people don't get enlighten? I think you should refrain from pleasures by your will, it's not enough having nothing because of having no access to anything. An old story describes it so well: A sufi and a man who is enthusiastic to become a sufi met. They both looked very poor. Sufi asked the man how he was doing. Man said "I thank God when I find something to eat or drink, if I can not find anything, I just bear with it" Sufi says "Dogs do it like that" Man startled, sufi continued "we give it off everything we found, we thank God if we don't find anything"

Every possesion we got indulges us deeper inside earthly work. We got freer as we posses less.
 
Life, existence, is one big psychedelic experience;
Eternal incarnation.
The ego is only the doorway to facilitate this.

But isn't this change some kind of addiction?
Yes, indeed. A dependence on the vindication of selfhood.

Oh and ????????, I enjoyed that article you quoted.
 
Ego may make your life horrible, but reaching ego-death is impossible... it'd implies physical death.
 
You can get aware of it, and then re-size it to the size that gives the self the space it needs for the total aware of the self.

If ego is minored too much, your defense of your existance will become critically weak. Ego is also a guardian to help you to survive.

IMO one can only have an oversized or huge ego if he's not aware of the ego at all.
 
"Ego may make your life horrible, but reaching ego-death is impossible... it'd implies physical death."

Please explain your theory . What exactly do you mean ? And why is it imposible ? Ego death doesnt mean killing anything , it means stopping ego having controll . Changing the internal prioritys list . Giving it a seat right at the back of the bus instead of it sitting at the front where it tries to take over and be the driver .
 
Ego makes life horrible, unless your ego is poor because you have been educated in a special manner.
When your ego is poor, you have more control on other people that have greater ego. This is the paradox of life.

I think there are two "ego", one that will decide your social condition, and one that is pure power: the structure of ego itself.
No one can use that power.
 
Retour
Haut