Zeitgeist Addendum

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Ok, bear with me; the following tries to explain the conclusions I draw about the venus project, work and money:

For the venus project to eliminate all work, requires a huge amount of work (a bit paradoxical!).


Lets say the entire world has been swept up in this new “zietgiest
 
ok, fair enough. I guess we can agree that the intentions of the video are good but the alternatives proposed are highly questionable. I didn't think of the latter part of the video thoroughly until reading this thread and I concur it's rather matrix-esque. I still like how the first part explained the money problem and the corporatocratic state of the States; I think it was well done. Also, I understand work and money or some system of exchange can't be dissolved just like that but I like to think there are alternatives. At least better than what we currently have.

Nomada a dit:
explain myself clearly

I understood you fine, man. Technology is a very peculiar thing, isn't it? it seems to go about in special ways that don't apply to what we understand as evolving life forms or anything else for that matter. Like how it progresses even when it's sustainers don't, as you explained. Or the fact that it doesn't die... (this explains what I mean). I guess I agree with the Venus guys when they talk about embracing technology and learning to use it for our benefit, because, if we don't do it we just might kill ourselves.
 
the idea behind it is similar to the worshipping of a pharao and all means for reaching the goals of the civilisation would be for the higher good and also all work to be done which would be "gladly" done then... it's obviously an utopian idea! too much negativity around that something like that could be achieved...
 
CaduceusMercurius a dit:
what is cyclic time?
Those talking about cyclic time usually refer to the repetition of certain ages. It's exact opposite are the Christian or Muslim views that creation occured a couple of thousand years ago, or the Big Bang theory which also claims it all 'started' a certain number of years ago. Cyclic time means everything has existed always, and will always continue to exist, and the things that happen within existence comes in waves, comes in cycles. The world was not created, it has always been, and within it everything spins in predictable cycles.

[quote:1zwxvisr]Also, not recognizing that there have been ancient civilizations who have been far superior in evolutionary terms than us. There is no such thing as linear evolution. Time is cyclic.
Linear evolution as in: an amino acid becoming a cell, becoming an insect, becoming a mammal, becoming a human being. Since he follows the phrase "linear evolution" with "time is cyclic", I assume he implies that the existence of the modern human body is not the result of evolution on planet Earth, but some other process.

Before anyone speculates on where the human form came from, they should first answer where the complex DNA structure came from.

All we know is that it was there at the basis of the very first simple organism. But DNA itself is far from simple, it's very complex. Such a complex key player at the start of our local evolution reveals that simple structures didn't develop into complex structures (such as the human nervous system), but rather that a very complex structure (DNA) simply developed into a simple structure first.

Perhaps human beings could theoretically evolve from ordinary Darwinian influences (mutation, adaptation etc.), but the question is: did they? Or is the galaxy already populated to such an extent that humans invade a planet long before any monkey will stand up? And that our Earth planet went through times of scientific and technological advancement we have simply forgotten about?

It could very well be that the human form has always existed and always will exist, somewhere. Because it is the nature of existence to include human populations. The appearance and disappearance of human beings, and their technological advancement, comes and goes in cycles. Hence time is cyclic for the human lifeform.[/quote:1zwxvisr]

I find this a really brilliant post, and I personally have learned a lot from reading it.

I am aware that the Big Bang is a THEORY. I am aware that the Theory of Evolution is same. As is the same in religious myths. They are all myths. I think this is seriously important to grasp.

What is real is Nature, is what is around us and what we emerge into, out of. We all come here from --hopefully a sexual union of passion :P --and then nurtured in mamas womb we emerge into the Womb of Nature which of course includes the whole universe.
What do I mean by 'real'--watch this video, featuring Jeremy Narby talking about perception and consciousness Jeremy Narby - Biospheric TV

Crucial insight? 'we don't know'!!! So to start from there, as it were. Some are saying, when they THINK they know, knowing this--'reality is illusion'. And that idea came much further back in history with Eastern Idealism. ..........But, we don't know. What we DO know is our experience in Nature. YET we also know about mindcontrol too, via s-called education, mass media, political propaganda, psy ops, and possible black magick (occult symbolism all around)

The technotopia in Zeigeist, when reflected about when also understanding the above, what then?

Hands up? How many know how to make a computer? So that if it breaks what are you going to do? Who has the power of knowledge--over you? Likewise, in a completely computerized environment, who has that power? Are we then more and more like helpless children? Disenfranchised? I would think so, cause we already fukin are!

And by the way, Caduceus Mercurius, your explanation reminded me of Alan Watts' insight about planets 'peopling'! 8)...where 'people' include ALL species
 
Nomada a dit:
Nomada: if progress is indeed a myth, what do you have to say about technology?

Contrary, I believe, to what goes around, the correspondence between technology and progress is not a simple one. More technology does not necessarily bring more progress-this is the myth.
For example, among lots I have to pick around, the fact that some people in 4th world tribes have a 40 year old live span for a lack of technical knowledge and other circumstances does not deem them "least progressed". They may live 40 solar years but actually live some enormous time, beyond year's structural accommodation: objective time is different from perceived time. Not necessarily of course but, they may have developed a spiritual dimension far wider than, for example, our blind [historical] christian cosmology or the consumer fetishism.
Acknowledging humanity's multidimensionality, the modern epoch certainly brings about technological progress but not necessarily a human one. "...now we have guided missiles and misguided men." The myth of progress it not exactly that there is no progress, but that the occidental society often regards itself as the most developed one in history, as the culmination of a process supposedly incessantly going "up".
I'm apparently studying to be a scientist; as such, I have to know that technology is an instrument. Technology's reality [that is, its material reality] is not given, and exhausted, in technology itself, rather in the subject-object relationship we may forge in the history of our collective. Don't know, though, If I was able to explain myself clearly... :shock:

I have also really enjoyed your insights here, Nomada!

So right!! How many times have I had to listen to ever-so-smug moderns strutt how more 'advanced' we are than our 'primitive' ancestors, who 'had' to live in 'caves' and had 'far shorter life span than 'us''. OF course when then say 'us' they don't mean the poverty stricken 'moderns having to live in shit places, with bags of stress, bad food pushed by mass media, cigs, drugs, booze, etc.

I have ofthen thought like you that it is QUALITY of life which is important. And, personally, not being afraid of death ( though awed by the thought of it), because i see life death as cyclic continuum (as did Indigenous ancestors), death is renewal for life. Rather then the grim clinging now. So we are used to the image of decrepid. totally dependent, old folk propped up in nursing homes kept alive by a cabinet of big pharma drugs.
I remember reading this book called The Human Encounter with Death, by Stan Grof, where terminally ill people were given LSD. And many found they had been clinging to existence because of fear of letting go. Soon after ther psychedelic experience, they felt they could let go.
And when you think about it this 'modern' need to cling makes sense. Fear of religious myth/heaven, hell, etc--fear of mechanistic-science myth of 'meaninglessness'--'when your dead your dead'. So people cling to......?
 
This documentary, at first sight, it's amazing.
At second sight, it's boring.
At third time, it is propaganda.

Why would i want to support the venus project (zeitgeist website) with money, if they want to end the monetary system ? You can't kill the devil by treachery.

How many people are unhappy with the system ? And how many are simply unhappy with the USA ?
IF I made a documentary stating the reasons why the system doesn't work, and why the USA goverment is fake and ignorant of the people's will, and if i promoted it BIG TIME, mainly by free distribuition on the internet (and a good looking website), and, then, gave an idea about freedom at our hand near the end of the show, a freedom so beautiful that you wouldn't need to work and could spend your entire lifetime doing what you wanted, it would be a big sucess, no ?
I am sorry to hurt people that belive in this, but this is, in my opinion, complete bullshit. Nazis used to do this kind of propaganda...

"Arbeit Macht Frei"

Sounds familiar ? What does the zeitgeist says ?

"Arbeit Macht Nicht Frei"


Who would build the robots ? Program them ? Who would educate children ? Why would that old guy have a nice, big house, in the countryside and I have to live in a fucking 1 bedroom apartment ? Now that aren't any laws, why can't we be responsable for our actions, and stop being monitored, like the drunk-device on my bubble-car ?
 
And by the way, Caduceus Mercurius, your explanation reminded me of Alan Watts' insight about planets 'peopling'! Cool...where 'people' include ALL species
Yes, Alan Watts has been a huge influence on my thinking.
 
"This video (
) is in response to the shotty journalism employed by Alex Jones at Infowars. com & prisonplanet. com
Peter Joseph [the maker of Zeitgeist] tried to have an intelligent discussion on the show but was bombarded with insults and innuendos from the host - THE REAL ALEX JONES WAS EXPOSED FOR ALL TO SEE!
Thanks for putting AJ in his place and hopefully many others will take note of his hackjobs...he's into IMPLANTING FEAR, not FIXING PROBLEMS in society."

^^ check out the video, it's sweet.
It contains some excellent Bible bashing! :lol:
 
After watching the first ten minutes I turned it off.

Someone wants a seat with similar control as a CEO/Saint with acknowledged/believed ode from it's followers. Yet again, through changing furniture and surroundings and making the pledge to change the current, through collective promised oneness.
 
A guy I know believes the lucifer crap about the venus project.. hehe not that I really care but if anyone could provide Peters defence against the clame (why is it called the venus project) it would be welcome ^^
 
Venus was a major Roman goddess principally associated with love, beauty and fertility, the equivalent of the Greek goddess Aphrodite.
Duval_La_Naissance_de_Venus.jpg
 
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