Zeitgeist Addendum

[random]

Zeitgeist Addendum (2)

A thread about this was already opened, but, as was said in the same thread, I think it's worth posting it on the front page, so more people can see it and have access to it.

For the ones that haven't seen the first Zeitgeist movie (wich is recomended to see before seeing this one) I'll leave the link below:

Zeitgeist (1)

edit: Their Website will open on the 10th of this month.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Thanks!
Mara and I watched it last night.
I appreciated the information, but I thought the video lacked visual content. After a while the black screen (with the fancy vertical lines and random white flashes) becomes quite boring.
I wonder to what extent the video applies to Europe.
What do you guys think about the Venus project?

 

[random]

The video mainly focus on the US situation. But the US economic stability, or instability, influences the rest of the countrys in the world. At least thats what I think and, also, the video gave me that impression too.

I was very surprised with that part of the Venus Project when I was watching it, to be honest.
Sincerely, it gave me a lot of hope. And if we think, it is possible.
Sometimes my brother tells me things that technology can already do, and I find it so much impressive.

So, I think it's a great Idea. The problem now is that we have to be patient. Wait till this monetary system falls. But that's where I "fear" something, if they start using military/police forces to keep people from starting, in practice, this project (or a better one that can come with time), after their colapses.

My task now is to show this 2 movies to many people as possible. Many people don't use internet, or if they do they don't search for this kind of information. So if they see this, at least they will be familiar with what is +/- happening in the world, specially at the religious/economic/corrupt level. As well as facilitating the embrace of new ideas such as a Resource-based economy.

And hope we can all achieve this, as One.

 

[Psyolopher]

Yeah, i was thinking the same thing Random!
The Venus Project gave me hope, since im already not a fan of the media, money nor the government(mine and most) i found this movie quite impressing!
There is alot of info, that i have to go through again since this was quite convincing!

The funny thing was that this was really similar to many of my theories!
I cannot choose to live without our monetary system (yet)!
But i dont believe in the law!
But nontheless im not a bad person, i dont hurt nor kill people!
I just dont want to be a sheep!
I've questioned alot of things, including myself and my habits and the conclusion is very similar!

Im for the Venus Project, i truly believe it is the next step for humanity!

 

[Bastiaan]

It won't load past 1 minute..
Anyone knows a solution to this problem?
I very much enjoyed the first one and I have to see this one too!
When did this sequal appear?

 

[Psyolopher]

It won't load past 1 minute..
Anyone knows a solution to this problem?
I very much enjoyed the first one and I have to see this one too!
When did this sequal appear?

Using FireFox?
Well try resetting your browser!

It is in like trillion parts on youtube, could try that out!

 

[zezt]

I really enjoyed the first bit. Not being good at math, and confounding scams like that set by the most cunning shysters ever to hit planet Earth, I might have to re-watch and pause and rewind some.

What I found a dramtic change was where it suddenly begins pushing technotopia at us....! I recolied when I saw their visions of these spacey aged concrete like malls, all automated, and 'caring for our every need'. Reminded me of the 1950s World Fair where we saw automated cities of the 'future' where it all ran SO smoothly....HAH!

I recolied when it talked about robot fukin surgeons for crying out. Would YOU let a machine cut YOU up? Think about it. I wouldn't let a HUMAN do it, let along a robot.

I was VERY surprised in the 'alternative' energy section that Free Energy/Zero point energy wasn't even whispered about! Haven't these people got hip to the MASSIVE available info about this. That the global elite already are suppressing Free Energy sos as to keep their geocentralized powwer be making everyone totally dependent on fossil fuels?? For makers that SUPPOSEDLY 'delve deep' in mythology, this ommission about this DEEP issue is very odd indeed!

Also, what with that hand symbol and the eye in the middle. Is that not an Illuminati symbol? I am very suspicious of these people I have to say!

 

[Bastiaan]

Using FireFox?
Well try resetting your browser!

It is in like trillion parts on youtube, could try that out!

Im using IE, youtube won't load till past 1 minute either and with another piece of film it loads perfectly.. it'll probably load tomorrow, sometimes some material doesn't load, it's quite irritating :S
Thx for the tip though

EDIT: I downloaded it at torrent-finder.com 8)

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

This is MySpace blog by my friend Bernhard (drummer from Resolve):
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=2065889&blogID=439437923

Zeitgeist Addendum - A Review Zeitgeist Addendum has been highly anticipated ever since the big internet success of Zeitgeist. I remember when I first saw it, roughly two years ago, when it just came out. I think I was the 50th person to watch it online after a friend of mine told me about it. Less than a year later it has been watched by millions of people worldwide and it got even released in selected theaters. It was probably the most popular "Conspiracy" documentary to this date. Reason for this is that it was very well done and Peter Joseph, the director, has a great talent to bring such topics on the screen and keeping the audience interested. The topics were very basic, however I thought it would be a great trigger and introduction for the people who are still asleep to these issues. So I had great hopes. I kept ordering DVD's from the site and just gave it out to friends and random people. As time went by I realized that the wave didn't catch as I thought it would. Lots of wishful thinking on my part. Just watching this film won't do anything if it is not followed up with more research and action and many people who watched it didn't seem "to get it". The conditioning is strong! I have much respect for The Zeitgeist crew for pushing the film without just trying to cash in. Also much respect for Peter Joseph for keeping his ego out if this and let the film/message speak for itself. So on some level it did wake people up, but not on a critical mass scale. At the same time, I knew that what was presented in Zeitgeist is literally just the tip of the iceberg and so when he announced that Zeitgeist Addendum would come out in October, I was excited. Yet, after watching the trailer back then and considering the title "Addendum" (like Add-on) I already started to have doubts, feeling that he would take a "New Age" turn and present solutions without having truly looked deeper into the "problem" the world faces to begin with. Unfortunately my feeling turned out to be correct and was confirmed after I watched Z - Add. It is not all bad, but the devil, as always, is in the details. Here are my thoughts on it: The first half I really enjoyed and thought it was well done. A good insight into the monetary system and the effects of economic terrorism. People need to become aware that they're being screwed on a daily basis by the system Awareness of that is great and it was very well presented. However, the second half is a disappointment and I even had a hard time watching it to the end. Peter Joseph, the director and voice-over is coming to conclusions and solutions way too fast, leaving out a good chunk of some deeper implications. It very much takes a "New Age Utopia" turn, offering solutions without clearly having identified the main issue/problem, mainly the topic of Psychopathy. My favorite line in Z-Add, by Peter Joseph himself: "We must be open to new information at all times, even if it threatens our current belief systems and hence identities" Not sure if he's applying this advice to himself though. The biggest issue I have is this new age turn and slogan he uses as the "reason" for "uniting", the assumption that "We are all One and we just need to recognize this" in typical "romantic" wishful thinking manner. For the pitfalls about the "we're all one" issue, I refer again to the exploration of the topic of "Organic Portals" and Psychopathy: Organic Portals - The "Other" Race Yes we're all one from a HIGHER perspective and separation is an "Illusion", but applying this higher truth into our 3rd density experience is like saying gravity is an Illusion. Great, so jump off a ten story building and see how this "illusion" can back fire. "...for the truth would seem to be that there is not and never has been a homogenous "we" (the human race) on the planet, "we" are not all alike, "we" do not see the world in the same way, "we" are not just a divided race, we are two different races." -LKJ Further on, his view on Evolution and progress is highly limited and very (linear) Darwinism based. He has a very obvious bias to Religion. Not saying that dogmatic religion is all good, no, but the bible and other religious texts are brilliant coded alchemical esoteric insights, if one knows how to read them and so he is throwing out the baby with the bath water. For example, the resurrection can be seen as a metaphor for the second birth that happens after man has stepped through the second threshold of esoteric conscious evolution. It is not a supernatural event. But it is in a sense of raising from the "dead", meaning everyone is "dead" (asleep), attached to his false "I" of the personality before the second birth. When man realizes his real "I", the true permanent Individuality, he awakens (re-birth) and starts to truly "live", being in this world but not of it. However, it also doesn't happen just by itself. Conscious work on the self is needed. At one point I felt it was like an advertising clip for the Venus Project, portraying the "leader" Jacque Fresco as the "all knowing" wise man. It became even a bit comical in my eye, when he also uses him as an "expert" on religion and the bible. Too much emphasis on technology as the "savior" and the monetary system as the cause/root for the problems in the world. The fact that the film doesn't go one bit into psychopathy and questioning "human nature" to begin with is a big let down. Peter Joseph basically bases the root of the problems the world is facing solely on the monetary system and he repeats that even over and over again at the end. Very short sighted, hence his solutions are very short sighted as well and actually misleading based on the following false premises and assumption that caught me eye: 1. All humans are the same, we're all "one". (from the outside yes, inside is a whole different issue) 2. Darwinism view of evolution (he seems to push the idea that we evolved from apes....I already disliked that hint in the first Zeitgeist. Darwinism is actually just as part of social control as religious creationism), not fully analyzing what evolution truly means (mechanical vs. conscious). Also, not recognizing that there have been ancient civilizations who have been far superior in evolutionary terms than us. There is no such thing as linear evolution. Time is cyclic. 3. Assumption that progress happens no matter what, without laying out what "progress" means to begin with, as if technological progress and evolution of consciousness are the same. 4. Leaving out huge parts that explain far more the state of the world than just basing it on the monetary system and "human nature", without truly questioning "human nature" to begin with.....which goes back to point 1. In the end of it all, Peter Joseph even seem to go backwards, as if he forgot what the talked about in Zeitgeist 1. He says that the "tables are turning" and the system is crashing because a monetary system based on debt just can't survive as it is. He says that they are trying to save the system through the bail out! What? No one is trying to save anything here. The crash and economic crisis are designed, purposely orchestrated. The bail out is a lie sold to the people. They are not trying to save anything. They know exactly what they are doing and the new system is already thought out and will replace the outdated system. No need to boycott anyone. The crash is happening no matter what and we will be living in a cash less world soon enough. Maybe Joseph should look into Icke's concept Problem-Reaction-Solution to understand what is happening behind the curtain. Now, the stupefying thing is that he talked about the designed crash in the 20's in Zeitgeist 1 and now this crash is happening because of bad politics/business/economy decisions? It makes no sense! It's disappointing because Peter Joseph is a gifted film maker and has a good style of presentation. The first half is good, so people can become more aware of how they're being screwed by the monetary system so to speak, however, the ending is misleading into some sort of utopia where people just can live peaceful together if there is right application of technology and abolishing of the monetary system. It would have been great if he would have researched more into psychopathy/ponerology, presenting these issues with his film making talents. However, in this case Zeitgeist Addendum becomes more like a distraction and gives people false hopes. It's one step forward and two steps backward. As a good friend of mine said when we talked about the film: A missed opportunity. Z-Add is the basics of the basics, a good insight into the monetary system, but with conclusions and solutions that can be misleading and back fire. Discussing the film on another forum, some people pointed out: "All in all it seemed to be a well-intentioned facet of the love 'n light brigade, with no practical analysis of our current situation aside from pointing out that, yes, we're all slaves and yes, we need to change, but apparently the psychos will conveniently disappear when everyone chooses this "new path." "The avoidance of psychopathy is a clear sign that Zeitgeist Addendum is more a a distraction. The signal (a bit of truth) to noise (far too much dreaming of a blissful future without pinpointing the main 3D instrument of societal misery) in this venture is apparent." "The "Utopian Dream" presented by the Venus Project did not take into account psychopathy and characteropathy, including genetic and biological causes. Without this consideration, it is merely a matter of time before ponerization comes again. They don't seem to understand that to try to create a system without consideration of both creative and entropic forces, they would actually create a new "Darth Vader". Repression and denial of entropic forces merely sends them out of sight, not out of reality." It becomes clearer by the day that a splitting is happening, not a unification. The only unification that will happen in this current 3d experience on earth is through global control, because there is NO spiritual unity. True Spiritual Unity can only happen if people see the world as it is, without wishful thinking and misplaced hope. Unconditional Love is just that: to see as is. With 6 blillion people lost in the wilderness, waiting for a savior/leader (be it Obama, Jesus, ET's, etc...), I don't see that happening any times soon. In this corrupt state the world is in, unification is being forced upon based on lies for greater control. The "New Age" Religion with its pseudo teachings is part of this set-up. False prophets are everywhere as they feed off the credulity of the people. These are precious times to choose between the way "up" or "down", Being or Non-Being, between truth and lies. Trying to offer solutions and an economy system that works "better" and "for all" without looking into deeper issues this world faces will eventually back fire. And that is the main blind spot of Zeitgeist Addendum. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[Nomada]

"Not saying that dogmatic religion is all good, no, but the bible and other religious texts are brilliant coded alchemical esoteric insights, if one knows how to read them and so he is throwing out the baby with the bath water"

the shadow underneath rocks, inside the old dusty closet in the dark corner, are brilliant coded alchemical esoteric insights, if one knows how to read them...

Assumption that progress happens no matter what, without laying out what "progress" means to begin with, as if technological progress and evolution of consciousness are the same.

Divided into two it is. The movie has a distinct historical materialism [sometimes Marxism] taint. Marxists theory, for example, distinguishes several constituent spheres to the socio-cultural superstructure but, gives causal primacy [yet chaotic] to the production systems [industry, agriculture, and the matrix of technological evolution] as primary deterministic factor in the conformation of human form. The movie I think is very insightful on intuiting the severity of the technological sphere with respect to the whole of man as collective. I agree though, on the lack of consistency on the definition of "progress"; one has to reconstruct that node as the movie unfolds to see which one logically fits the movies's discourse. I was able to produce a rather coherent discourse by doing this but in the end is plain speculation as it is my construction entirely.

without truly questioning "human nature" to begin with.....

The old "human nature" and its ideological matrix is semantic legacy from the patristic [neo-platonic, neo-aristotelic], Christianity dominated, medieval pre-modern time. "Human nature is the gift of God, given definite form in his eternal grace". Blah, Blah. The birth of early modern period empowers, supposedly, the conscious human capacity to produce himself in his own image [sometimes anthropocentrism]. I agree, the movie's proposal is consistent but not sufficiently insightful, by far.
The myth of historical progress is a sad figure in the modern occidental creature.

Time is cyclic.

what is cyclic time?

questions: what is "linear" Darwinism? What is evolutionary superiority?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

what is cyclic time?

Those talking about cyclic time usually refer to the repetition of certain ages. It's exact opposite are the Christian or Muslim views that creation occured a couple of thousand years ago, or the Big Bang theory which also claims it all 'started' a certain number of years ago. Cyclic time means everything has existed always, and will always continue to exist, and the things that happen within existence comes in waves, comes in cycles. The world was not created, it has always been, and within it everything spins in predictable cycles.

Also, not recognizing that there have been ancient civilizations who have been far superior in evolutionary terms than us. There is no such thing as linear evolution. Time is cyclic.

Linear evolution as in: an amino acid becoming a cell, becoming an insect, becoming a mammal, becoming a human being. Since he follows the phrase "linear evolution" with "time is cyclic", I assume he implies that the existence of the modern human body is not the result of evolution on planet Earth, but some other process.

Before anyone speculates on where the human form came from, they should first answer where the complex DNA structure came from.

All we know is that it was there at the basis of the very first simple organism. But DNA itself is far from simple, it's very complex. Such a complex key player at the start of our local evolution reveals that simple structures didn't develop into complex structures (such as the human nervous system), but rather that a very complex structure (DNA) simply developed into a simple structure first.

Perhaps human beings could theoretically evolve from ordinary Darwinian influences (mutation, adaptation etc.), but the question is: did they? Or is the galaxy already populated to such an extent that humans invade a planet long before any monkey will stand up? And that our Earth planet went through times of scientific and technological advancement we have simply forgotten about?

It could very well be that the human form has always existed and always will exist, somewhere. Because it is the nature of existence to include human populations. The appearance and disappearance of human beings, and their technological advancement, comes and goes in cycles. Hence time is cyclic for the human lifeform.

 

[Nomada]

Those talking about cyclic time usually refer to the repetition of certain ages. It's exact opposite are the Christian or Muslim views that creation occured a couple of thousand years ago, or the Big Bang theory which also claims it all 'started' a certain number of years ago. Cyclic time means everything has existed always, and will always continue to exist, and the things that happen within existence comes in waves, comes in cycles. The world was not created, it has always been, and within it everything spins in predictable cycles.

Why particularly cycles? things may have existed forever in different shapes and forms but not necessarily in cycles, maybe just erratic jumps, destructions and reconstitutions? What is the criteria that inclines towards a cyclic image, let alone a predicable set?
The Christian or Muslim views of time are structuralist, the opposite may just be one without a deterministic structure, maybe? An inherently Chaotic one?
Pre-existence inevitably holds something of cyclic, indeed, since it invokes an eternal return of something of the likes.

Before anyone speculates on where the human form came from, they should first answer where the complex DNA structure came from.

What is the relationship between an already amorphous concept of complexity and evolution? evolved means more complex necessarily?
if complexity is emergent, then the question of evolutionary dynamics gets a little more complicated than upwards-downwards/complex-simple simple correspondence, I believe. Yes, I agree on the skepticism here, Evolution paradigm has gotten, often, as reclusive as a fundamentalist sect, stating a "natural" bias towards "perfect" adaptability, almost like a "universal ultimate objective" that sounds terribly fundamental.

 

[UTHTURN]

Alex Jones Tv: Zeitgeist Addendum"The Review"1/3

 

[Pariah]

the zeitgeist documentaries are interesting but very misleading: the science in the 9/11 conspiricy one especially was just a twisted version of the facts.

one thing I find odd about this one is its referal to work being a form of slavery, and money is debt etc. I disagree, this documentary misses the practicality behind work and money (keeping a society running).

don't get me wrong, capitalism is messed up, I'm just saying these videos are aswell.

Communism is alright assuming everyone is selfless and shares the same ideals, which can happen in small communities, but in larger ones the assumptions are always incorrect - people handing out the duties often give themselves and their friends / families benefits: "some are more equal than others" to quote Orwell.

another downside to the communism / socialism is that freedom isn't always the same as equality, I'll give you a real life example:

A friend of mine is from Brunei (in borneo), the government is about as close to a communist dictatorship as it needs to be for this example: the sultan, his family and friends hold power, and everyone else gets told what their going to do for the country: my friend was told she would be studying law at the british university I've been studying in, she gets everything payed for by the state, but has no choice what she does: when she gets back she'll be given a job which she will accept or will go to prison.

Don't take zeitgiest at face value - it has alot of truth, but twists it and omits important facts. get your information from a reliable source about the things talked about. to detail all the flaws and sneaky wording involved in these documentaries would take me far too long. they wrap facts around a political ideal, its swimming in fallacy, and is very biased, I would suggest using something more neutral for developing a philosophy.

The message at the end about oneness is something I agree with, but I don't think that's the real message of the documentary, its the advertising hook.

 

[????????]

Would YOU let a machine cut YOU up? Think about it. I wouldn't let a HUMAN do it, let along a robot.

what the hell would you do then if you had to be operated?????

Im using IE

switch to Firefox. You're welcome.

work being a form of slavery, and money is debt etc. I disagree, this documentary misses the practicality behind work and money (keeping a society running).

are work and money really prerequisites for a running society? why?

communism

I agree with you but I don't understand why you bring all this here since the video never advocates communism.

Not capitalism =/= communism.

Don't take zeitgiest at face value - it has alot of truth, but twists it and omits important facts.

which?

they wrap facts around a political ideal

what political ideal? I don't know where you're getting all this, it's like you watched another video.

but I don't think that's the real message of the documentary, its the advertising hook.

You speak like some kind of profit were being made. Apart from the Venus thing the only thing I see it advertises is critical thinking and authority questioning. The only ideal I see exposed is a call to people to wake the fuck up and see how the USA is acting like it owns fucking everything. Yes, we can't take everything Joseph says as the ultimate truth (who said it was?) but this goes for everything we watch and hear. I think your counterpoise is uncalled for.

---

Nomada: if progress is indeed a myth, what do you have to say about technology?

 

[st.bot.32]

interesting but very misleading

The first time I saw it, I was on acid actually and didn't know what it was at the time so all I saw was CG psychedelic colors and some guy using the "t" word repeatedly (truth), and blasting me with images of human suffering. My initial gut reaction was like, wow, propaganda techniques 101. Then i found out what movie it was. (I did watch the rest of it later while sober.) And I agree with your analysis 100% The first part on Egyptology just a few minutes of googling will reveal there is no real solid proof for any of their claims, a lot of it is cherry-picked from highly controversial sources. there is no consensus on a lot of the stuff about horus. the real story (or should i say stories) of horus is quite different than what is portrayed in zeitgeist. anyway it just keeps snowballing from there. i have no doubt that egyptian religion and other mesopotamian religions had a huge influence on early judaism, and the connections between christianity and paganism and sun gods are pretty well known, but not necessarily along the lines of what this movie portrays...

Be critical of all media. Media is powerful--the human mind all too easily constructs narratives from any old string of imagery and sound, not even necessarily related...

 

[Nomada]

Nomada: if progress is indeed a myth, what do you have to say about technology?

Contrary, I believe, to what goes around, the correspondence between technology and progress is not a simple one. More technology does not necessarily bring more progress-this is the myth.
For example, among lots I have to pick around, the fact that some people in 4th world tribes have a 40 year old live span for a lack of technical knowledge and other circumstances does not deem them "least progressed". They may live 40 solar years but actually live some enormous time, beyond year's structural accommodation: objective time is different from perceived time. Not necessarily of course but, they may have developed a spiritual dimension far wider than, for example, our blind [historical] christian cosmology or the consumer fetishism.
Acknowledging humanity's multidimensionality, the modern epoch certainly brings about technological progress but not necessarily a human one. "...now we have guided missiles and misguided men." The myth of progress it not exactly that there is no progress, but that the occidental society often regards itself as the most developed one in history, as the culmination of a process supposedly incessantly going "up".
I'm apparently studying to be a scientist; as such, I have to know that technology is an instrument. Technology's reality [that is, its material reality] is not given, and exhausted, in technology itself, rather in the subject-object relationship we may forge in the history of our collective. Don't know, though, If I was able to explain myself clearly... :shock:

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

the real story (or should i say stories) of horus is quite different than what is portrayed in zeitgeist. anyway it just keeps snowballing from there.

The Krishna story is also misrepresented in a couple of books and films about the origins of the Jesus myth. Krishna was not the son of a carpenter, but the son of a statesman, raised by a cowherd family. He wasn't crucified on a tree, but was shot in the heel by a hunter and ascended to Vaikuntha (heaven).

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

The PRE-PLANNED Financial/Economic 911 of 2008

WHAT: A pre-planned collapse of the US (and global) financial and economic systems.
WHO: The same characters who perpetrated the original 911.
WHERE: New York City & DC, of course. Plus a sideshow in Washington state.
WHEN: The days surrounding September 11, naturally.
HOW: Instead of painted drones, missiles with wings & big fins, and fake airplanes, they
used the much more stealth short seller.
WHY: To remake the economic/financial order of the world into a “PPP

 

[random]

Ok.. after the heat, I think I should start to become more skeptical about this kind of issues.

After watching/reading a few other point of views about this movie (specially the second one), and rethinking about the material presented, theres can be a Big mislead behind the fancy words and images behind it.

The project that Venus are presenting is a double-edged sword with, in both sides, extreme impact in our society. And now that I think about it , I don't feel comfortable to trust Another group of few who-ever-they-are, to "lead" us in the right way. And as Alex Jones pointed, it's impossible to run a society like Venus are presenting without being a group of few leading and making the decisions so the "program" doesn't stop/keep rolling. So if that side of the sword prevail, we would be left with less than what we have today.

In the other hand, the project if it's honest on the root, would bring a Great good to our society and to the planet. But in the long term... would greed and love for power actually disappear? Wouldn't be later a guy that had evil ideas and take advantadge of all that tech to enslave, once again, the people?

I rather have one apple, than giving that one away to someone, wich I don't even know, that promisses me a apple tree. In the end I may be left with no apples at all.