What Is Consciousness?

[IJesusChrist]

I believe consciousness is simply a cross point of information, like a computer chip. It's the thing that's between our senses, memory, muscles,... Which are also the primary limitations to a it.

I believe anything as small as a chemical reaction has a consciousness, limited in the world the chemical "knows". A brain is not a requirement for a consciousness but it's the organ that has specialised in creating a more efficient consciousness, using more and more chemical reactions as computer chip.

Our consciousness is only different from that of a computer because it has been created trough evolution and trial and error, while we design computers with a consciousness limited to their task.

The beauty of the self-designing algorithm :smoke:

Good.
So then, I'm assuming you do not believe in free-will.

 

[Meduzz]

Good.
So then, I'm assuming you do not believe in free-will.

I believe nature is deterministic yes. But I believe in free will. Your choices would only be predictable if you know your entire self (analogy to laplace's demon).

 

[Meduzz]

What makes a will entirely free? Aren't lots of desires limited by our biological, physical appearance?

 

[IJesusChrist]

There are many paradoxes that accompany a deterministic universe...

I'll explain a short one:
A man creates a computer with a 99% accuracy rate in which everything within the computers radius can be predicted, the computer encompasses 99% of the universe. A person within the computer looks up how they will die, do they die the same way? No... obviously not.

However while writing this I came to the conclusion that since the computer is not contained within itself, it is an outside disturbance, which would definitely change the outcome of the person's death....

hmmmm. This paradox fails

Determinism is true. I do not believe there can be free will and laws of nature coinciding, when the carrier of said "free will" is made up of matter which abides by nature.

 

[Forkbender]

^If there is no free will, why would you worry about anything at all? Why would anyone feel bad about what is happening?

 

[restin]

what's free will anyways?

 

[Meduzz]

Well determinism is scientific optimism. Otherwise you deny that things cannot be understood.

Laplace's demon is a paradox too if you think about information storage. The fact that the demon knows all, is a new fact. Which must be stored in some way or another, needing another change in the universe, which again is a new fact. A bit like a set of all sets in mathematics, which has to include his own.
What would work is supposing the demon IS the universe.

Also, the man looking on the computer is just another chain of event that should have been in the computer. Maybe it can only be right as long as nobody watches?

what's free will anyways?

We are free to the degree of our abilities, like a computer or a rock.

But hey, I still experience it as pretty free.

 

[restin]

so you mean we are free to chose what to do?

The opposite then would be that e.g. we are bound by hormones, emotions, society etc. ?

 

[Meduzz]

so you mean we are free to chose what to do?

The opposite then would be that e.g. we are bound by hormones, emotions, society etc. ?

Indeed but as we can't know our entire selfs, can't know the exact state of the system, and can't extrapolate such an amount of data, every choice is still a leap in the dark for us. The final drop that makes the bucket spoil over can really come from anywhere.

 

[Meduzz]

If we had a truly free will, we wouldn't have to make choices.

 

[st.bot.32]

^If there is no free will, why would you worry about anything at all?

If there was no free will, would anyone really have a choice in the matter as to what they worry about?

(I was about to descend into solipsism as well, but then I stubbed my toe and it really goddamn hurt)

 

[LsDxMdma]

there is freeworld in this world, but alot of people care to enlighten themselves

 

[LsDxMdma]

free will is just a way to decide if you go to heaven for being good to people and the Lord

 

[st.bot.32]

I do find it interesting that those who believe in an omnipotent god are often the biggest proponents of free will.. god chooses to be omnipotent when he feels like it so my preacher told me

 

[LsDxMdma]

black$white?

 

[Getafix]

I do find it interesting that those who believe in an omnipotent god are often the biggest proponents of free will.. god chooses to be omnipotent when he feels like it so my preacher told me

The thing is that theistic concepts like sin, surrender and devotional service are meaningless if there was no free will involved. That's why most religions stress that we have a free will and therefore better use it right, or else...

 

[Forkbender]

^If there is no free will, why would you worry about anything at all?

If there was no free will, would anyone really have a choice in the matter as to what they worry about?

Good point, but then the worrying becomes pointless.

Anyway, I intuitively reject determinism on a psychological level, because I don't see it accounting for consciousness. Maybe it is all just a big dream, but still.

 

[Mr.Smith]

im pink therefore i'm spam