what are dreams??

[BrainEater]

yo.. so since it's been a while that i opened a topic i thought why not... :unibrow: :grin:
dunno whether there has been such a topic, but well even if... i think the topic is
always fresh lol... :retard::mrgreen:

well a relatively common understanding seems to be that the subconscious mind or so is like a tape recorder or maybe operating system and program at the same time.
maybe something like that... so that possibly means it can "sort of" record something and then play it. i don't like the term program in connection with the concept or idea of emotions very much, but well let's just say some people are so shallow in their own ways that at least in my opinion in some way they sort of reduce themselves to programs or allow themselves to be reduced. to be honest i would have to admit that i have had some shallow phases or so as well... i just don't like when others harass me for stupid shit all the time when it isn't funny anymore and they only use it as attempts to boost their own puny egos... sort of like energy vampires...
however i would also say that to a great extent this depends on the kind of perspective
you could take etc etc... right??? :Oo:

anyway i guess that shouldn't be the main point here... hmm well so i thought maybe some people think of dreams like programs or so. my theory is it could be because their own life has become more like a program than not a program and maybe in a bad way. and often the notion of programs regarding living beings is relatively obviously i guess felt to be rather negative i guess. i dunno lol... just some ideas...

hmm another idea could probably be the idea of limitation. i guess one of the most common perceptions and misconceptions seems to be that dreams can be unlimited and reality not or something like that. but maybe that's not the best way of looking at it.
a better way of looking at it could be to explore the rigidness/fluidity/etc etc of the (perceived?) limitation or boundary between the dream world and the real world.
once i could look thru my eyelids when i woke up.. that was amazing lol...
reminds me a bit of dreaming of waking up... i can't remember whether i had that tho...

of course i can only speak from my own experience, but i noticed that in a certain state of mind or consciousness the boundaries dissolve more and more and the idea or ideas like that and why there can seem to be a difference between the dreamer and the dream can become more and more clear. for example like the illusion of separation between you and the other or between you and the world and that we supposedly need an ego to survive etc...:-o:retard::mrgreen:


well i don't know it has been a lot of technical information... that's only because i thought a lot about it with the intellectual mind and understanding. however basically i consider dreams to possibly be something deeper not necessarily complicated or simple and beyond intellectual intelligence if that's the right way to say it, but more something like adventure... like how life can be an adventure in a natural way if i may put it like that. surely the idea or even concept of for example a mirror is very interesting in context with dreams. also supposedly there is collective and individual consciousness and they are on some level or in some way isolated and intertwined.
i guess the point is to see yourself and to really recognize yourself. so in that sense the dream plain and the mode or state of consciousness could be seen as periods of reflection on some level.
and possibly meditation could be seen conversely to real sleep as conscious dreaming vs unconscious dreaming and maybe in that sense a possibility for stages of purification
between body and mind. because the body-mind is a intricate balance by itself it can probably also be beneficial if the single parts so to say are balanced.
as far as i understand there is at least a subtle difference between a sleeping body and a sleeping mind, because with practice or so you can watch yourself falling asleep on the body level and a short while after that or so the mind falling asleep.
well it's possible to remain conscious and to watch yourself dreaming so to say, but it's also possible to first fall asleep and then while dreaming waking up in the dream so to say commonly referred to as "lucid dreaming".

if you ask me, but that's only my opinion a way to lucid dreaming could be to practice lucid waking or in other words to try to be aware all the time which is basically like practicing mindfulness and mind you to observe yourself like that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to think. in that context i would say it can also be fascinating to explore or ponder about the difference or supposed difference between thoughts and not-thoughts.
because thoughts and not-thoughts can both be experienced. maybe the concept or idea of illusion is interesting to look at in relation because basically probably a lot if not most of the "modern world people" or how you want to call them consider dreams to be illusion and reality to be real. funnily this could be a missunderstanding in some sorts, but also a quite deep and interesting philosophical discussion. maybe that could be a good opportunity to quote morpheus from "the matrix" lol... i think it was something like "if you can't even distinguish a dream from reality how could you distinguish reality from a dream??" :grin:8):yawinkle:

i have had it a lot that i experience my dreams like watching a movie and i guess this tells a lot, because i often felt being hypnotized by tv in a bad way. but i have had positive moments like that, too. but yeah the question is probably "how consciously or unconsciously do you dream?" hmm i guess i would suggest sometimes it can be good to sort of passively dream but sometimes also more actively.
it all depends etc etc .. right??? maybe another idea from the matrix could make more sense now, too... that the matrix is like a computer system and some rules can be bent and other rules can be broken... it's kind of funny, but maybe also sad that we can have a dream system so to say... think about it!! ... but hell lol...if you ask me even the boundaries of logic can be streched with enough imagination. :Oo::-o

everyone can dream. don't believe the lies and disgusting media propaganda from the power people or the money people or whatever you could call them!!!!! a lot of them have already sold their souls... and many of such people can also become like demons or vampires ... it's pitiful really..something like that .. i just hate so many of "the adults" and "the wannabe adults" ... in my experience tho to only hate them is very often more like buying into their stupid game than not buying into it. i would say hate is different from anger, but as i see it both have got to do with fear and suffering, but with a different quality or so... i think yoda got it quite right lol...
well and if you can detach from your emotions or just in general i think demons can be nice, too and can show you something about yourself if you are honest to yourself, but you should still be careful with demons. my interpretation is that a basic description could be that at least in some sense or so they are more like animals than human beings. think about it, because for example in the media or in politics human beings are often referred to as inferior or so... but the truth might just be the other way round that we are noble cosmic beings.
in that sense i would definately say that real animals can be much nobler than people who declare themselves as human beings... right??? well just think for yourself and please form your own opinion and perspective if you can ... lol ... down with retardism and fear-control!!!! :rock::rock::rock:


btw in my opinion at least it shouldn't be a political topic at all... more a philosopical one...:?: :-|:'(

one more thing just got the thought that i mention it again lol... so as dreaming is supposed to be connected a lot with the subconscious... and breathing is supposed to be at least for most people a more subconscious than conscious process it could be rather logical that the connection between the subconscious mind and the breathing "process" is disregarded a lot because a lot of people don't have a "natural body feeling" or so.
so i guess it's no wonder really that so many people "have" split personalities...
so it seems a lot depends on how good the subconscious program or OS is... or something like that... i guess it means how you have grown up etc etc... whether and what concept of experience you have... hmm maybe some food for thought... what you think?!?!?! maybe you want to share some experiences or thoughts???

and hmm lol one more speculative idea... my theory is that life is a dream or at least like a dream in some very deep sense or so... but maybe it's not always so much a wonder that it's a dream but how it's a dream.... :idea::weed::lol:
i hope it's not too much text and not too confused or so....



peace

 

[Mrboxey]

Dreams are really interesting things...

It has also been theorized that dreams may in fact be you astral traveling to another dimension. Sometimes you can be in control, and other times you cannot. Sort of like "The Matrix". If you visualize yourself doing it, you can do it...

However, I am not sure about limitations that people put on dreams, that we can only dream of something that we know about... That seems pretty weird. They say all dreams are based on like a jigsaw puzzle, it is what our brains took in during the day that it hasn't quite processed yet.

But yes, the lines between reality and dreams do get blurred with the more realistic the dream is. I remember having a very vivid dream of waking up, doing some stuff, and then I woke up in my bed again... That was weird to say the least...

They say that you cannot feel pain in dreams, but that is not true. You can feel pleasure in dreams, so you can also feel pain sometimes, so the whole pinching yourself to see if you are dreaming isn't necessarily a valid argument.

Going back to lucid dreaming. The idea fascinates me, and I wish I could do it, but generally speaking, whenever I realize I am dreaming, that is the time I usually wake up lol...

The idea of lucid dreaming also scares me a little, what is the "fail safe" so that you can wake up when you want to? I remember one dream, I knew I was dreaming, and I was actually trying to wake myself up and couldn't... It was kind of freaky. But if I were 100% sure of how long I could make myself dream I would love to lucid dream every night. The sky would be the limit and it would be awesome

There are even lucid dreaming machines you can buy that I guess help you to sort of "wake up" just enough to realize you are dreaming, and from that point you can take over without waking up. I think that is kind of counter productive as an idea though, as you see, waking up is exactly the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish lol...

Anyway, it certainly is an interesting topic....

 

[BrainEater]

hmmm after reading my post again i noticed it all seems a bit negative or so... well that wasn't my intention at all!!...lol i just wanted to say that i love dreams and to encourage people not to be so hard to themselves and others so we can all be happy and free. i think if we can't take it easy we will always end up in a cold world scenario. it's probably a bit like whether you know what you are doing and whether you know what you can really do. and dreaming is probably also the most ancient science in some sense... like knowing yourself...
if you ask me it is connected a lot to feeling... for example think about how nature is alive and has a feeling also...
it seems religion and science have in some way become oppositions to natural peace. or can you simply be without trying to be something?? but well it could also be like alchemy a purification process or so on a grander scale. what's there more to say now??? maybe something like that it's probably always good to know yourself... right? my suggestion is simply free your mind!!!... :weed::lol:
i guess it's not exactly like but a bit like read between the lines in a figurative sense... not only media possibly enslaved our minds but also school, family etc etc.... shit like that...
you know??...maybe just try to think with open eyes and/or without words.... i hope you know what i mean lol.... :x:idea: and i can recommend to watch the movie "waking life" if you like...



peace

 

[Mrboxey]

Actually, in terms of lucid dreaming and really getting an insight into how powerful dreams can be, you need to check out the movie "INCEPTION". Awesome movie.

The ending was really interesting as well... He had an elevator for all his different memories and crap too.. Lucid dreaming can supposedly help you recall any experience you had, and any memory on demand even if when you are awake you can't seem to get a hold on it.

The human brain certainly is an amazing thing, and dreams are just scratching the surface

 

[BrainEater]

yeah man!! cool that you have had some experiences.. i guess i also think something like that the theory can limit us from the experiencing. maybe theories should be tested more instead of simply accepting them as truth or so... and also fear is supposed to be the mind-killer... but then again the mind is also supposed to be basis for illusion. so hmm maybe just be careful in a loving way and be nice to yourself!!
my impression is that we often hold ourselves back and we don't even really know why... maybe like some sort of conditioning or mind-imprisonment or so.... research the word "fnord" to better know what i mean ... lol :lol: :x :x... how we are being fooled on a mass scale etc etc.... :\\:angry: :cker79:


:cker79: i would say an important idea could be to not suppress the emotions, but to really feel and to understand yourself thru feeling like that.
furthermore i think dream characters are very interesting to think about... for example when you wonder why you are dreaming something... sometimes the connections can be astounding lol...
i thought maybe dreaming and waking are just like different perspectives... like dreams could be sort of like thought bubbles or so...
hmm i dunno i suppose it can be a scary idea, but i just thought maybe the seemingly common concept of perception could be flawed in a basic way if you take a more dream like or/and holistic paradigm as an alternative...it may sound a bit strange, but what i mean is simply that projection could be seen as a form of perception from another level or perspective... well it's not so easy to explain, but something like for example if you can see yourself in others or in the outer world in general or vice versa... however i would also suggest to be careful with that... know yourself is the key phrase i guess!!! at that point there is one question i want to ask all of you "do you really love yourselves!?" :heart::!::question:

hmm i heard that supposedly the human brain is the most complex object in the known universe lol...
and i saw the movie inception... it's amazing lol... yet i also felt that it's sad, because of so much subliminal
violence...to me it seemed as if the characters in the movie displayed the loss of emotions that the actors suffered in real life because of too much calculation or so etc etc.... i think the idea with the elevator is sort of funny... lol... sort of like a parody on the "typical wannabe actor stereotype" that is supposed to be all crazy, but too superficial or so to make it without an elevator... in a figurative sense lol... hahaha... hmmmmm.... :|:idea: ah well i dunno lol... in my opinion it's just crazy what the fake hollywood world or whatever you want to call it can make of the people...
but yeah it's only a speculative joke lol....
they probably should take a deeper look in the mirror and notice the subliminal dehumanisation.
scary shit... :Oo:aranoid::wasted: :retard::retard::retard::retard:



peace

 

[Mrboxey]

Yes... I don't quite understand why sometimes in dreams, I fight so hard against them lol..

It's like for example, even if I know it's a dream, I very rarely ever do something in a dream I wouldn't do in the "waking" world... It's really weird. Like for example, I can't steal a car in a dream...

So, I really need to learn how to relax and go with the flow lol... I sometimes look back on my dream experiences and say... What the..... lol

I'm going to try that being aware thing and see if it helps to lucid dream, I would love to do that on a regular basis as I mentioned before.

 

[BrainEater]

hmm maybe you need to go beyond fear... because as it seems something snaps back in you somehow... not sure what or how...as it appears to me it's like your imagination at some point or points got trapped or paralyzed because of fear experiences and you are trying to break free. so yeah i think you got it right that it's about more relaxing and going with the flow or so... because flowing has got to do with emotions.... i think emotions can in some sense be seen like water... and like bruce lee said water can flow and water can crash... i guess it means that feelings can be too frozen or too flowing or not enough... think about it...

i also had countless dreams where i wondered what's going on in my mind or so lol.... btw in the movie waking life, which i can recommend you to watch a dream character talks to another dream character and says something like "it seems most people are wake walking in their dream state and sleep walking in their waking state, either way they are not going to get much out of it."... well i don't remember it completely, but i would agree with that somehow. it's like mental imprisonment and tunnelvision syndromes are becoming popular.. in my opinion in such a way or similar ways we still live in the middle or dark ages.
maybe you simply need to focus on your true self more... it seems you are at least a bit like a society program that is only controlled by fear.. look within, try to let go from the unnecessary fear etc etc and free your mind!!!

maybe try youtube guided meditations or try it with music and be very aware of yourself... like just be there and aware...try to listen to your own inner voice and most importantly feel!!!!!! or simply do breathing meditation to connect with your feelings and subconscious.
do what feels right to you.



peace

 

[Mrboxey]

I find a lot of dreams for me these days (when I do dream) fade really fast once I'm awake. I'd love to recall my dreams more so I can analyze them more.

However, as one gets more tired, they tend to dream less. I have been working quite a bit lately, so therefore I am dreaming less I guess.. Or just not bothering to remember the dreams

I would agree with that statement as well "Many are wake walking in their dream state and sleep walking in their waking state". This is very true.. And apt. You see, we could learn a lot if we could tap the power of dreams. The human mind can apparently remember everything photographically, so the ability to get a refresher course before some exam would be really helpful!

If we could learn to realize we are dreaming and sort of in "information mode" we could be like that guy in DreamCatcher that had that entire library of memories etc, and could remember anything he wanted to at will. He simply went inside himself for a few seconds and pulled out the "file" it was pretty cool.

The human mind is an amazing thing, and we haven't truly mastered what we could accomplish in a dream state. For example: Learning would take half the time. We could be learning something as we are sleeping. It would be sort of like the matrix, we would pop in the program and learn kung fu, or advanced physics.

It could also be used to sort of go on a vacation. As the time dilute thing.. Imagine like in inception, for every day of work, you feel like you get a week off as the 8 hours was the same as a week? Could you imagine what we could accomplish scientifically if we could do that on a consistent basis? 8 hours would be 1 week of research say, so... If something would take 10 years to develop, we could have it done in roughly, well, let's do the math... So say the average person works 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. that is 160 hours a month, or 1,920 hours a year. Now, 10 years would be 19,200 hours to complete the research and development.

So, if 8 hours in the dream state is like a week, that means that technically they are working 48 hours every day, 5 days a week. So, that's 960 hours a month, or 11,520 hours a year! So we could develop something in almost 1/10th of the time normally!

Amazing.. Of course... who knows what sort of effect this sort of waking world versus dream world would have on our psyche.... And being able to be interconnected in our dreams and then in real life... Would be kind of weird.. Might lead to madness... ?

 

[BrainEater]

hmm man i also couldn't remember my dreams very well for most of the time... but sometimes rather randomly it seems i remember dreams from a long time ago or so... it's strange lol...
well i guess it's maybe a bit because of too much stress and pain... do you think you can have or make yourself so much stress that you don't have time or so to feel the pain? if you ask me, not feeling the pain is like going into a direction of feeling less overall.. for example related to the brain and a head feeling so to say... i would say that a lot of people are not feeling themselves properly... so i guess rather trust your own feeling. just think of different peoples' definitions of relaxation. know what i mean?


well yeah man of course if more people would wake up to a more esoteric like, dream awareness or at least healthy natural self-centeredness state of being or so then there could be more people with special skills. i think it would be way cool and it would make things more interesting and not so much with the bad connotation of reality having to be realistic... know what i mean? it's like people would wake up more to the dream of a reality or so...i suppose the difference could be something like that people don't perceive themselves so much as cogs in a wheel or as meaningless random fragments...
the question is probably how individuals and groups of people create more or less insane or comfortable spaces for being so to say... dunno if that's the best way to say it i just hope you get the point.
how the atmosphere/mood/vibe similar to psychedelic experiences shapes the experience itself.
and this is simply saying that the experience of reality itself could be seen as sort of psychedelic.
depending on how much you allow the openness/inspiration etc etc... in that sense i feel at least to some extent that feeling is more like knowing than thinking.



in my experience time is one of the biggest factors with dreaming... because time is so psychological...
now for a while already i have been going to rather strange phases where i couldn't feel myself at all very well, because of too much real or imagined pressure from society. it's like if you are too much thinking and not experiencing yourself naturally by simply being in the now what i said before can happen... like you think you're only a cog in a wheel etc etc or so... maybe the first step for freedom could be trying to think your either a cog in a wheel or you're the wheel or maybe even both lol..
i think it's like calculation and not only you calculate but the others also...
probably it's simply about healthy egoism in that sense and to find out what really healthy egoism really could be.


now i don't really think that it's actually at least not always so startling/astonishing that and/or how life is a dream.
because you probably don't see it... because there could be so much habbit stuff or security thinking or other programs going on, that simply being aware might be reduced to the necessary functions... well i can't really explain this very well.
it's like the mind is conditioned to what it has experienced and what it can imagine etc etc...
again sorry for bad explanation... i guess i would simply suggest to try to remember how you experienced as a child and see and probably most importantly try to feel the difference to now.


and i guess i agree somewhat to some extent with the conclusion that perceiving the interconnectedness dreams with real life might lead to madness... it would depend greatly on the individual person and how much and how a split personality has formed or so... also consider that what for some people is normal for others is madness and vice versa.
some concepts could for example be macrocosm and microcosm, within and without etc etc and most importantly your own kind of perspective that is probably more or less beyond words.

it's probably just a matter of unifying many personalities which rather paradoxically seems to have become a normal thing to do. right?? well just because most of the people are considered normal and intelligent this doesn't have to mean anything at all. get the point?? it's like asking can you even perceive reality?


maybe a big idea is the idea of nested dreams... maybe reality can be nested, too.. at least in some sense lol... hmm what a crazy idea... well hm what about the curvature of space and time. that it's all relative etc etc... i think the connection of dreams and reality is a philosophic one.
for example the story of chuang tzu who dreamt to be a butterfly and when he woke up he wasn't sure whether chuang tzu dreamt to be a butterfly or the butterfly dreaming to be chuang tzu.
something like that lol... :grin:



peace

 

[BrainEater]

hey sorry for the double post, but anyway lol... so i had some more interesting thoughts. for example what does it possibly mean if people form dream theories and if they comply/correspond or not? well i suppose it's a simple idea, but often with simple ideas it's that we think "ah it's simple, no need to think more about it or so"... however personally i can say i have had the impression that we can easily miss something like that...

in addition to that what really puzzled and intrigued me when remembering dreams or maybe also while dreaming was that sometimes the lines between memories and dreams began to become blurry.
it seems to me it's a mind thing, i.e. i wondered does my mind think "i experienced this or that" or "maybe it was just a dream"? but then i thought doesn't it really make more sense to think that of course i had dreamt it or else i wouldn't have experienced it? this is what made me think about cultural or social conditionings like language. i think especially language is often in a mind sense or so related for some sort of people but probably maybe even most people a lot related to dreaming or not dreaming.. probably depends on the emotional attachments we give to the words, besides informational values or so? not really sure... try to think about it for yourself. another thing that got me into thinking quite a bit about myself and the world, was the idea that as children we simply experience, but then growing up and as adults it seems "normal" to almost always tell a story about the experience either in order to be able to communicate it or simply for the mind to describe it (=either and/or telling a story to yourselves and/or others). hmm i guess i can't explain it very well right now i just hope you know what i could mean. that the storytelling and the ego that seems necessary for that and that is obviously involved in such a process or many processes can get in the way of actually experiencing reality or maybe also dreams...
furthermore i also think in the real world it's really a bit like in "the matrix", which i think is a movie that is about dreaming. people think they have a life program and then come to terms or not with what they think it is, was or supposedly should be etc etc...
this tells me a lot of peoples' natural abilities for dreaming or should i say experiencing have been cut off from their full potentials.
now a possible question arises from that... are dreams in contrast to memories supposedly something new? either way, both got to do with experience, right? what we have experienced we know and what we don't have experienced we don't know. it seems to be quite simple.. well we can imagine what it could be like to experience... but that's supposedly something different. but hmm imagined knowledge also somehow seems to be an interesting idea.

maybe from some perspective.. for example death.. life is only a memory or a dream and from the converse perspective also? in my opinion a lot of people are at least somewhat living in a in between state, not really alive, but also not really dead. the question is why is that so? if you ask me, it's because they are not sure or maybe too sure with some questions or so...
the problem is that many people don't really live their own lives... they rather follow celebrities, politicians and authors. basically probably what they think historical or not-historical people are or are supposed to be according to "their" ideas etc etc... but maybe that's a bit besides the point.
i guess the point is how people are not really looking so much towards or inside of themselves.
because isn't that what dreams are about? yourself? why do people construct labyrinths or maybe labyrinths construct people??? :Oo: does that tell something about the psyche and/or psychology?
what i also find kind of interesting is where collective and individual dreams meet... in my opinion collective dreams or dreamers don't necessarily have to be more significant or so...
regarding the idea of nested dreams some possible basic concepts are probably trees and clouds or of course many other.... just think about it...
or maybe you can imagine the difference of a computer dreaming and nature dreaming.
you probably should know what nature dreaming is like and for computers dreaming simply search on youtube for "electric sheep" or just the term itself.
lol... a computer becoming aware that it's dreaming... that's ridiculous.
any thoughts???




peace

 

[shawnball]

Views that a person witnesses in his sub-conscious mind are dreams. Dream Dictionary says that every object in our dream has some significance or connection to us.

 

[Arkadiy]

Ok then what about the dreams those are totally illogical??? We found nothing in it related to us.
One more thing I have heared that dreams are actually black and white. Do anyone of you has any knowledge about it???? supported living

 

[BrainEater]

well what if the dreams only appear totally illogical to you? and/or what if that can say something about you? maybe that you had lost or forgot yourself. hmm anyway, maybe it's logical that everything you see in dreams is yourself, because dreams are within, aren't they?
but yeah also dream logics is a fascinating topic for itself. hmmm why should dreams be black and white?? who said that? haven't you ever had any dreams by yourself or so? :Oo:
by the way has anyone ever had a dream within in a dream?? i think i have had that, but i can't remember very well... i thought the idea of dreaming of dreaming or having a dream within a dream is somehow very fascinating. it seems funny to think about it... having a dream within a dream, would mean that the dream within the dream isn't real in the dream? not really sure lol... hmmm but then again, maybe dreams are real in their own ways or so?



peace

 

[SamRivenbark]

According to me, dreams are ways for finding the different between positive and negative thoughts. If one take these seriously then he or she could come to know things that should be done in real life.

 

[Interdimensional Creature]

We are consciousness. In the event it is eternal and so experience is too, than to coincide dreaming is just another reality of being and with the practice of forgetfulness (we dream many things and remember little to nothing) we can safely maneuver realities by tricking our Mind Body duality in order to experience them each as authentic.

 

[BrainEater]

hey, so i discovered one key to understanding myself appeared to be that sometimes i simply seemed to dream shit lol... i can't explain it very well. maybe a bit like chaos and order. or maybe like "what am i really doing here"? yeah maybe it means to reflect more deeply about what's "really" good and bad.
remembering and forgetting and what's in between? i don't know... i just know that i always somehow liked to find out about deeper aspects of myself. can't really describe that with words. the other thing was that when it seemed i dreamt too much stupid shit, i just had to really face myself. still at that point somehow...
what do you guys think? i think the topic is missunderstood a lot.



peace

 

[RamonaDeguzman]

whatever effots you make the dreams are set to come everytime..

 

[RamonaDeguzman]

do not mind it at all, i think its a beautiful one but dreams never come true anytime in life..