we don't exist????

[ararat]

+1

excellent post, somewhat what has been going through my mind these days, but with more details

 

[IJesusChrist]

inside =/= outside ... i think at last we might get this, but can't you tell us something new?? :? :axe:

Ask something new...

 

[IJesusChrist]

I believe that "I" am an infinite being, therefor, for me, Identifying myself as the person I see in the mirror is an incorrect assessment. I will always be "me", and you (from your perspective) will always be "me". This identification as "me" is both infinite and unbound, extending beyond the physical and into in-numerous levels of awareness and consciousness. It is this infinite identification as "Me" that we all share collectively as our sub-conscious mind. However, The identification I have while writing this is the Identification I have with the body, but If I were to switch my focus to a more infinite perspective, I then become the observer to my life, with no more attachment then I would for a character in a film.

I disagree. You are you, the person in the mirror is not infinite - it can only be defined by the amount of information stored in the observers brain correlated with that person. I.E. when you see your mother, you have millions of neurons connected with her (if you knew her) and that is all you can know about her, ontop of memory there is of course empathy, feeling, reasoning that is able to be applied to most people aswell; including your mother.

"I" am not infinite, it may seem like that, due to the paradoxes that arise, but "I" most certainly am finite - with the extent of what I am. However, due to chaos theory - I effect everything else, so in that sense "I" am everything else, and everything else effects me - that is a bit too philosophical for me, so I don't think about that too often.

Psychodalia permits infinities in the mind, we try and grasp things that are ungraspable, not because they are infinite, but simply because we are observing the observer - and impossible feat, but there are ways to describe this with infinities, which in essence work, but in reality have no meaning.

Has fun!

 

[I-Am-Ford]

Okay, but did you have to bring my mother into it?

Joking....

I don't know if I would agree with the statement that "I" can only be defined by what my brain can store. According to quantum theory, I have no brian unless I am observing it. (No quoting that line on me ever!)

Instead I would say that we are the sum of our experiences and emotions, but I do not believe that any of that information is stored in a brain, I believe it is stored within consciousness itself - something that most neurologists agree does not reside within the confines of the human skull. Although you may share the same belief of many that when one dies, awareness ceases to exist, but I do not believe this is the case. I believe being human (assuming the identity of a human being) is just a drop in an infinite bucket of manifestations of identity and reality. Therefor, I do believe we are infinite.

What I do not know is whether or not we have access to or retain any of the information accumulated within this life. Will I remember my mother when I am dead? Will that information even matter to me in a different level of consciousness? To guess at the answer to that would be to make assumptions based on a human experience.

Yes, having fun.

FORD
http://www.becominggod.org

 

[ararat]

IJC, where does the I begin, where does it end? where do you DRAW the line?
what I'm getting at is, is that the line is arbitrary and thus imagined. in the deepest sense, there is no inside, no outside.



I'd like to write something more, but sometimes my words get stuck somewhere, maybe in those puddles of red wine. clarity isn't one of my virtues nevermind

"You are something the whole universe is doing in the same way a wave is something the whole ocean is doing." Alan Watts

 

[Mescaline]

Ever heard of cellular memory. It does not have to do with consciousness, but with memory.
The idea of cellular memory is based on reports of people who have had organ transplants, and developed new habits and memory's because of this. The idea of cellular memory seems to suggest that memory is not only stored in the brain but in all the cells of the body.

Yes, I've heard about it, and it's amazing! Yet, do you believe your knowledge defines 'you', your memory of your life, memory of acquired skills? Because I don't. But maybe this is only my perception of things. If I'd suddenly forget something important as my name, there wouldn't be any less of 'me'. Neither if I'd forget how to e.g. drive a car.

I disagree. You are you, the person in the mirror is not infinite - it can only be defined by the amount of information stored in the observers brain correlated with that person.

The identification I have while writing this is the Identification I have with the body, but If I were to switch my focus to a more infinite perspective, I then become the observer to my life, with no more attachment then I would for a character in a film. Getting to this state can be done through thought alone, but it comes to us quite naturally when we are "high", as in having a "higher perspective of consciousness".

As long as there is an identification with the body, you are finite, I agree. But if you dissolve this identification infinity remains. BUT you as a human being don't exist anymore at that point. There won't be any identification with a body, so the body won't be of any more relevance than the rock lying next to it.. there isn't even somebody left to find it relevant. Stuff will just happen. But ofcourse this is not sustainable, we NEED this identification, if we want to experience infinity from time to time, or else we'll die. So you shouldn't fight the identification but be thankful for it and use it, but don't let it take control, don't become it's bitch, making you think this identification is all there is.

-I just noticed i was saying about the same thing as Ford xD therefore the quote-

 

[BrainEater]

alright so new questions... what IS IT, that IS ALL THERE IS??? well it seems too big to be grasped anyways... if we assume the universe expands infinitely, assuming the acceleration from the big bang never ceases and hence it's expansion...

hmm other question: are we ONE in the family?? i mean the human family. or are we constantly drawing imaginary, arbitrary lines between each other and ourselves to distinguish better the DIFFERENCES we have, in order to POINT OUT our individualism, individuality, separatism, separation, etc.......??? are birds one in their family?? are ants one in their family?? are fish one in their family?? reptiles??? ..

and WTF does it mean to be one?? why is the metaphor bound to misinterpration as much as it is??


and will god ever allow us to become him??? i heard god didn't care for us, but well we didn't care for god too, so that'd be not too surprising...

is infinity the body of god??? so to "see" god all you needed to do would be open your eyes and see??? but maybe seeing god requires more than 2 eyes??? or less than 2 eyes??? :arrow: 8)

peace :weedman:

 

[IJesusChrist]

The way you are framing your questions BrainEater, it sounds to me you want to answer your own questions.

I can say, life is what you make it, and there is no reason that it isn't anything other than what you do make it. However, gravity will always exist, whether you believe in it or not. On another forum people often talk about dualism - the mind, and the outer realms... like you said before.

They are seperate, but they are not.

What you 'see' in your head is a rather clever trick that anyone has yet to explain.

BTW Ford, I wouldn't say that most neurologist believe consciousness is outside the head, I would say a good many still believe that, but I wouldn't say most.

 

[BrainEater]

to me it sounds illusory that i can take myself out of the frame, in which i appear to having set myself in. therefore i wonder how i might want to answer my own questions, that are said to be "owned by me" and to which the answers i myself could "give", which would probably be illusory anyway, as all assumptions that were used to "create" the question were merely copied sheets of figurative sheets of paper in the metaphorical depths of what i have come to label as my "intelligence".

i am not sure whether i am aware of a solution to this problem, as what i understand intelligence appearing to be, it is a mechanism working similar to water, into which you throw a stone and what it will then "give" form to multiple waves and more waves, which are beautiful to watch and ponder about, because i hope i did not present the analogy in vain.

i am also not sure whether gravity requires my belief in it to exist forever, but most often it'd seem like it's hold on me was too strong, to letting it be questioned by my puny unit of intelligence, swimming thru the imagined realms of intellect, my mind is said to having created, so who am i to judge about the nature of my own questions? and who are you to judge them??


peace :weedman:

 

[magickmumu]

Ever heard of cellular memory. It does not have to do with consciousness, but with memory.
The idea of cellular memory is based on reports of people who have had organ transplants, and developed new habits and memory's because of this. The idea of cellular memory seems to suggest that memory is not only stored in the brain but in all the cells of the body.

Yes, I've heard about it, and it's amazing! Yet, do you believe your knowledge defines 'you', your memory of your life, memory of acquired skills? Because I don't. But maybe this is only my perception of things. If I'd suddenly forget something important as my name, there wouldn't be any less of 'me'. Neither if I'd forget how to e.g. drive a car.

no i have a holistic view of what it is that defines you.

 

[sensei58]

we exist as far as i can tell but then again this is only a lucid dream and i figure if its a dream its real(exists) in some aspect or other i like to think that even if i don't exist i still have an influence on my surroundings and the things i come in contact with as well as the things i come in contact with effecting me

if nothing else just remember to

be cause

 

[IJesusChrist]

Ask why more often, learn how more often, and think harder more often.

You'll become drained of these questions like IJC.

 

[BrainEater]

have a holistic interpretation of the brain's senses and become a master in terms of operative node-modes on divergent contemplation-stances..... evaluate your chances!!!

 

[????????]

this topic is all over the place... hehe

wait, i do have something to say

there IS a sense in which someone can say he/she does not exist. this is because a conscious self, at any given time, is the ongoing process of incoming information relating to the stored extra information in a brain (and other cells..) so THAT which we refer to as ME is the ego identity that sifts the thoughts that arise without the need of a watcher or a controller in the same way the heart and other organs do their thing without command. so if you think about it from this angle you can argue that that which we think of as mind does not truly exist in the same way my bed and the laptop i'm using right now does. the latter belong in the traditional physical realm and can be said to exist in a rigorous, objective way. on the other hand, a mind is subjective and belongs in the meta-realm of ideas, concepts and things like numbers.

 

[BrainEater]

so the mind, is our conceivable key element that lets us connect to the inconceivable realms and obviously to the conceivable realms??? the process of handling all the information that is embedded adjacent to the information processors, which appear to be aware of themselv(es), seems to be going on with a distinctive vibrational subjectivity and is almost constantly being objectified by an observing instance, in order to create mutual references and some sort of cooperation. reality is a product of definitions, but on the other side it just is. it can be confusing, but it can also be clear like the water from a mountain spring.

 

[????????]

an observing instance

:?:

 

[BrainEater]

i mean the conscious self that is the process, by which it is aware. being aware = a process then? maybe... mmmh at least thinking seems to be a process, as thinking moves compounds of the brain's chemistry logistically, in order to achieve the holographic quality, on which the process seems to be founded.

 

[????????]

that process you described, i think of it as only being aware through conscious/sentient beings; because of this we and every consciousness are the membranes by which it probes itself.

 

[????????]

in other words, that process is "god". by this i mean the sum total of conscious phenomena.

 

[BrainEater]

i don't dare to call the located force god, as it would put me into the position of needing to describe the indescribable... maybe god is all that IS NOT too apart of all THAT IS, too... i dunno the whole god notion ocasionally seems unintelligible to me...