Unsolved Issues

[st.bot.32]

Come on guys, this thread is just starting to be constructive. Isn't helping others a bit more important than gratifying our own egos? If people really want to duke it out that badly we can split the thread...

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Come on guys, this thread is just starting to be constructive. Isn't helping others a bit more important than gratifying our own egos? If people really want to duke it out that badly we can split the thread...

You've written some nice posts here, but those who have communicated differently with Ahuaeynjxs, or others, are not necessarily gratifying their egos. Ahuaeynjxs doesn't have a one track mind, so I don't think there's a need to split this thread. He can handle the diversity. I try to keep my posts short and few however.

 

[Brugmansia]

But as its evolving right now I will change the world around the fabled date of 2012 and I am looking for people to add upon my creation. Because I was born in a cave and raised by the orion empress, having never seen the sun until a very old age I kinda lack the creativity and the inspiration for something better ; everyone seems so satisfied with the present utopia YET it's nothing in magnitude compared to what is coming... it's a grain of salt. Narrow is the door that leads to the garden, and yet noone has crossed through, and narrower it gets as time merges with each of us. I am here I am talking and I do not like to let people who have the brains to think it out and make it realise only too late that they have created something they dislike because of their idleness. It purges me...

A state of mind in where one character feels he's destined to become the trigger of a collective wake up, is not necessarily a condescending self portrait.

But you'll need a messenger and a transmitting form to affect the inner signals of each individual. My inquisitiveness wants what you have suggested yourself. Also, what about those for who love is not the supreme reality? Architects and brainiacs are naturally born and the interference of love is seen by them as breaking their privileged pencil of intelligence which unfolds them exclusively.

 

[magickmumu]

What does get you mean ? Come and get you and take you to court ? To the police station ?

No, you explicitly said "FUCK DUTCH LAW". You're threatening to come get me and do something unlawful to me.

God you suck, stop threatening people.

 

[restin]

1) Caduceus, you didn't answer GOD's question about the threat PM. Second, what GOD meant with his "threat" was very clear and you don't need to play the victim now.

2)

You are threatening now, you pathetic, arrogant dick.

God you suck, stop threatening people.

Mind your language. Remember the mutual respect rule. And stop blaming other people.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

:smoke:

Oh man... to me this is all fulfilling of my prophecy, there is people from all walks of life seriously arguing about stuff that isn't even clear, all around me.

From my very detached point of view there is no real reason to argue, unless... unless you have been fighting elsewhere, and this shifted the balance of "power" in other dimentions. You feel attacked, personally and are seeking for pivot points into the real happenings of life.

Whatever is said in a fit of anger does not necessarly mean all that is. Diversions by violence is always used to detract the tought from a deeper realisation, I invite you all to step out of the victim-persecutor-proof-control paradigm and see for yourself that you all have positive and negative points but are exchanging them... somewhere else.

I used to think you were cool God, I was even posting along some of your posts and it was making sense ; until you absorbed something that belonged to Ivar... was it a way of seeing, a way of communicating, a dream ? I don't know but at the same time you were saying that your daughter wouldn't listen to you and went on her own. She probably felt you took things here a bit more importantly that you usually did. You never talked about that again...

And CM about the same period you used to be a ladies man, and suddenly you felt all self conscious about your exploration, guilt feelings too ?

Perhaps you guys need to look about what I am talking about and take back your own stuff and give back what isn't yours... just saying, to me this is very common and without much importance.

Oleg I still think you should step down, you really went too far in your words, sometimes you must let go if you are to continue in your evolution. This is a PSYCHO-nautics board. You aren't a psycho, nor a marine...

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

1) Caduceus, you didn't answer GOD's question about the threat PM.

Restin, did GOD answer the question I asked two days ago in the moderator thread? You didn't comment there that he didn't answer my question ("And what is it that Stan Groth said about that?"), but you'll tell me to answer his?

His question isn't relevant. I'm not interested in proving anything, not anymore.

Second, what GOD meant with his "threat" was very clear and you don't need to play the victim now.

I don't think I was playing a victim, but aside from that, it isn't very clear to me. Do you think that when a person on the other side of the globe, with a highly developed and personal worldview, decides to take his life, I can be blamed for that?

Mind your language. Remember the mutual respect rule. And stop blaming other people.

Restin, either be impartial, or simply be silent. Here again you're telling someone other than GOD to mind his language. This is a bit odd, to say the least.

 

[st.bot.32]

I think Restin is being very impartial. There are truths in the arguments here that have been lost behind nonstop ad hominems. Also whether you choose to call names or use abrasive prose or varying layers of verbosity, it doesn't make a post any less inflammatory in its intentions.

It takes two to fight and sometimes one person has to be the better man and walk away for the sake of keeping the peace, for the sake of everyone. If we keep trying to get in the last word, it IS an ego fight and it WILL continue indefinitely with no winner... and everybody loses.

 

[restin]

It takes two to fight and sometimes one person has to be the better man and walk away for the sake of keeping the peace,

Generally, I agree, the problem is that if you want to *live* together or at least coexist in a community, an unsolved conflict is something that is most unhealthy for the whole community. Even if one "holds back" everyone will feel the tension. Peace is not absence of war...

Restin, did GOD answer the question I asked two days ago in the moderator thread? You didn't comment there that he didn't answer my question ("And what is it that Stan Groth said about that?"), but you'll tell me to answer his?

His question isn't relevant. I'm not interested in proving anything, not anymore.

If someone does wrong it doesn't allow doing wrong as well? It is good you reminded me of the thing about Stan Grof in the other thread, yes, he should explain that.

If the question is irrelevant, then your claim about the threat is irrelevant as well.

I don't think I was playing a victim, but aside from that, it isn't very clear to me. Do you think that when a person on the other side of the globe, with a highly developed and personal worldview, decides to take his life, I can be blamed for that?

The fact of the feeling of suicide is exactly a proof for a mind that is unstable and, even if highly developped, not standing on both feet. That is NOT an attack or something against you, Ahua, that's a simple observation. A mind that is not standing on both feet is easily changeable and it is therefore very dangerous to try and help in this case. It is hard, not to start imposing one's own worldview on the other, something, which many people should consider (even me.). Blaming, not blaming, that's a delicate topic. We all know that seeking for offenders and victims is a wrong attempt (yes, we ALL do), it is a net where everyone influences everyone, sometimes more, sometimes less. But even if there isn't anyone to blame, trying to keep damage at minimum is an important thing to do. I agree I that this is something I should think about as well, so this is not particularly aimed at you, CM. We are all manipulators, in the end.

Restin, either be impartial, or simply be silent. Here again you're telling someone other than GOD to mind his language. This is a bit odd, to say the least.

Well, I must differ between claims that are written in *bad* language or simply messages to shut the fuck up. If YOU tell me to be silent, then please also tell HC and magicmumu (and everyone else talking about your dispute) to shut up as well. At least I try to get things clear.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

If the question is irrelevant, then your claim about the threat is irrelevant as well.

I made a claim about his current threat, not the one in the PM. I'll post the paragraph again, with emphasis added to show how my comment was concerned with his current statement, not on what he said half a year ago (in the context of me suggesting he be banned).

I know, you've threatened me before, in a private message. And I never threatened you that way, so if anything, this just shows you're a psychotic, or a man who has already physically attacked another one. "You dont know me and you dont know what i`m capeable of ." This is getting into spooky territory now. The first time you threatened me, I could whisk it away as a joke. Today you have confirmed it wasn't a joke. At least your current statement isn't a joke. You've gone too far now, but clearly this was bound to happen.

His question is irrelevant because it distracts from his current threat of coming to "get me", in defiance of Dutch law. Applying Ockham's Razor, a physical assault is the most obvious interpretation.

Well, I must differ between claims that are written in *bad* language or simply messages to shut the fuck up.

I don't understand this answer. Neither Heartcore nor Mumu told anyone to "shut the fuck up", and neither of them used very disturbing language. The descriptive words used were "pathetic" and "arrogant", and then there were "you suck" and "dick". Of these only "pathetic" expresses a serious value judgement, but in the past few days you, Restin, also came across words and phrases like "mentaly confused prima donnas", "morons abuseing the site and us", "idiotic ideas", "sharlatans wanking their crippled egos in our faces", "pain in the arse", "a psychiatric clinic as what you say is totaly mentaly confused and bullshit", "wotsit talking shit , enjoying suffering and rubbing it in our faces so his cowerdly / big headed and big mouthed reaction was of no suprise", "Wotsit after that as far as i`m concerned you can fuck off . I`ll never help you again" and well, last but not least: "Caduceus . If that guy kills himself FUCK DUTCH LAW AND FUCK THE FORUM RULES i`m going to come and get you and theres less than nothing you can do about it ."

 

[GOD]

To answer your question Restin .

A big part of transpersonal therapy = psycho therapy with a person who has been given a psychedelic drug is to let him spill his beans , to let him face and answer his own issues . When therapists are trained they are taught not to project things on their patients . I dont mean to be rude but i cant understand how anyone who has studyed what Stanislav Groth said and was about could fail to understand that . I didnt answer that before because i thought 1 . it was obvious . 2 . that someone else here might have read and understood Groth and would answer the question . And 3. i didnt want to get into an argument about it . Projecting any personal philosophy or ego games on a suicidal person would totaly defeat the point of transpersonal therapy and would be about the most dangerous thing a person could do . Anyone who did it to a suicidal person who then comited suicide would be for me acountable for that persons death even if it wasnt the whole reason that the person comited suicide . A person near suicide , especialy ( sorry samy ) one whos problems to a large extent come from or are partly caused by . in my opinion , falsly understood esoterics doesnt need more , in my opinion , falsly understood esoterics . More easily said the things that might have caused someones problems wont solve that persons problems .


I have tried to be as clear and unambiguous as i can answering your question and i cant think of any way to explain more neutraly than i have .

 

[st.bot.32]

Generally, I agree, the problem is that if you want to *live* together or at least coexist in a community, an unsolved conflict is something that is most unhealthy for the whole community. Even if one "holds back" everyone will feel the tension. Peace is not absence of war...
It is hard, not to start imposing one's own worldview on the other, something, which many people should consider (even me.). Blaming, not blaming, that's a delicate topic. We all know that seeking for offenders and victims is a wrong attempt (yes, we ALL do), it is a net where everyone influences everyone, sometimes more, sometimes less. But even if there isn't anyone to blame, trying to keep damage at minimum is an important thing to do. I agree I that this is something I should think about as well, so this is not particularly aimed at you, CM. We are all manipulators, in the end.

I agree.

The problem really is a clash of personality types.

We all have our own viewpoints.. and this is a site where a lot of us share thoughts we probably don't typically share in our everyday lives.. Assuming we don't want to impose them, we still do need to express them honestly for any real discussion to occur. Without honest discussion, there can be no actual learning or growth, so what would be the point, right?

But we do need to learn how to express ourselves as tactfully as possible, at the same time pulling no punches for any real conversation to occur. Also, how to take the responses we are getting. We express our honest viewpoint and someone else thinks we are trying to offend them, ignores the actual viewpoint, takes offense, maybe tries to offend, and back and forth it goes.

A little bit of understanding and a few less assumptions being made would go a long way. Nobody's perfect, we're all going to screw up, we sometimes need tolerance or better yet forgive and forgetness and a willingness to move on and get along better next time. Don't get me wrong I'm not claiming to be mr goody two shoes perfect here, I've had my share of flame wars here.

When someone misunderstands and gets offended, do we take offense? When we think someone offends, is it just we don't know how to deal with the question? When someone offends, do we try to offend back at some level and then get more irritated when they do indeed take offense?

I think these things are pretty necessary for anyone to be clear on for the sake of any real discussion and learning and growth.

I'm not trying to blow this out of proportion either. The majority of the English forum these days does seem to be getting along and having fun.. these are just things to think about.

 

[Forkbender]

This is beginning to sound like group therapy.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

But I didn't project a personal philosophy on him, I simply asked him questions, the primary one being the nature of one's suicidal ideation (whether he contemplates violent or nonviolent suicide). It turned out he didn't have any particular fantasy in mind, which tells me he's not likely to do something drastic anytime soon. You can read about it in the third chapter of Psychology of the Future. The author's name is Grof, with an f. And he gave me permission to translate his books, after I had read two of them cover to cover. I NEVER claimed to be an expert. I started reading Grof's books about two or three months ago, and I read only 2 out of 18. Please don't ridicule me for being enthusiastic about an author, and seeing that author's ideas make sense in a wide variety of situations. Ahua wasn't the first one to talk about suicide in the past couple of weeks. I had already written about it before. And I think it's pretty important information that could save the lives of thousands of adolescents and adults. But don't think I wanted to 'treat' anyone here. That's impossible. I can only share with others what I have learned about Stan Grof's cartography of the psyche. All I'm doing is talking about how it related to my own life and trips, and how it might relate to the lives and unusual experiences of the people around me. My primary goal is to translate all Stan's books into Dutch, not to cite all of them here on the Psychonaut forum. And so that's where most of my time has gone into in the past couple of weeks, just translating whenever I got the chance. If that focused attention is making me appear like a self-proclaimed expert on the forum, I'm very sorry. It's only natural I think. Those who read Huxley a lot, will start writing like him. By reading and translating Grof all the time, I started writing like him.

But then you might be more concerned about my practice of astrology. Again, I think you should appreciate I'm doing very little of that. I mention the relationship between orbits and human lives within topics about the universe, or about synchronicity. These are views not only held by me, but by many people before me as well, including Dr. Stanislav Grof. Please read: Beobachtungen aus der modernen Bewusstseinsforschung die Grundkonzepte der Astrologie unterstuetzen. - Stanislav Grof, M.D.
Stanislav Grof is a well educated and highly respected psychiatrist, scholar and psychonaut, and he accepts astrology as a valid mapping of the relationship between planetary transits and human lives, including the nature of therapeutic or psychedelic sessions. Now it's fine with me if you don't want to believe in astrological correlations, but please stop your witch-hunt against astrologers. Go ahead, attack newspaper horoscopes, I've said it so many times before: that type of astrology is bullshit. But don't project that type of astrology onto the real thing. Cocaine and mushrooms may both be considered 'drugs' by most people, but there's a whole spectrum of drugs, from the most destructive to the sacred. Similarly the astrological correlations are real, you can learn about them and discern them with the use of your own intellect. Astrology is not a belief, it is a method. But on the other hand it's not merely a method, it's also an acknowledgement of the ultimate interconnectivity and synchronicity of everything in existence.

 

[restin]

His question is irrelevant because it distracts from his current threat of coming to "get me", in defiance of Dutch law. Applying Ockham's Razor, a physical assault is the most obvious interpretation.

Thanks for clearing that up.

You can't be serious about ockams razor here...nobody's going to kill or hurt anyone here.

I don't understand this answer. Neither Heartcore nor Mumu told anyone to "shut the fuck up", and neither of them used very disturbing language. The descriptive words used were "pathetic" and "arrogant", and then there were "you suck" and "dick". Of these only "pathetic" expresses a serious value judgement, but in the past few days you, Restin, also came across words and phrases like "mentaly confused prima donnas", "morons abuseing the site and us", "idiotic ideas", "sharlatans wanking their crippled egos in our faces", "pain in the arse", "a psychiatric clinic as what you say is totaly mentaly confused and bullshit", "wotsit talking shit , enjoying suffering and rubbing it in our faces so his cowerdly / big headed and big mouthed reaction was of no suprise", "Wotsit after that as far as i`m concerned you can fuck off . I`ll never help you again" and well, last but not least: "Caduceus . If that guy kills himself FUCK DUTCH LAW AND FUCK THE FORUM RULES i`m going to come and get you and theres less than nothing you can do about it ."

I beg to differ... first of all:

A sense of humor is a very big help in life , a shield against takeing oneself to seriously , and if anyone takes what i often say seriously they only have themselves to blame .

So the strong language used by GOD is something different than not-so-strong language that is only aimed to attack another member (as in HCs example)

But of course, the post in this thread was meant very serious. But the aim of the post we talked about was not aimed at attacking someone but rather at clearing up certain issues.

Thanks for the answer about Grof. I am gonna read him sometime.

Anyway, I feel myself thrown again into the Danger of Islam thread so I dunno if I am willing to continue that.

EDIT: thanks for the post above, CM

 

[GOD]

What one person thinks is tact is bollocks to another . In the same way as mutual respect is . I personaly think that that rule is 100 % crap and should be deleted / erased as , in my opinion , it can and is used by some people to try to force other people not to mention / proove that what they say is shit. So to speak , to have a free ride .

Remember there was someone here a few times that said i had to show him respect by not useing some words ? What he and other confused people call swearing . I`ve been waiting for him to come back so i could ask him if mutual respect is realy mutual ? = I wanted to ask him if i showed him mutual respect by writeing a post where i didnt say fuck , shit and bollocks 14 times he would then show me mutual respect by writeing a post with those words 14 times in it...........

Group therapy OK but there wont be any group sex , circle wanks or the smell of vasaline and burning rubber while i`m in this thread .

 

[GOD]

Shit . I have the mother of all undenyable proofs but if i say it im afraid ( the wrong word but i cant think of another one ) that it might be taken that i`m being an ego cunt that is trying to have the last word , cause trouble and wont stop argueing .


I`m honestly not . Its just that what i want to say could be taken that way allthough it isnt ment like that .

Shall / can i say it or should i just shut up and walk away ?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

So the strong language used by GOD is something different than not-so-strong language that is only aimed to attack another member (as in HCs example)

Clearly that was a response and not an attack. But don't get me wrong, I don't like anyone getting rude and offensive, including myself.

Any way, I'm going to bed in a couple of minutes, so that's all I'll be writing about it tonight. Welcome back Oleg, enjoy your stay. I hope we can all peace it out a bit.

Ahuaeynjxs, you mentioned something about me being a ladies man.

And CM about the same period you used to be a ladies man, and suddenly you felt all self conscious about your exploration, guilt feelings too ?

No, not guilt. Regrets, yes. I never was that much of a ladies man though, depending on what you mean with the phrase.

g'night

 

[GOD]

What does everyone think about splitting this thread again ?

1 :- so Wotsit can have his thread back again and the help he deserves

and

2 :- because i have the feeling that there will be more posts on this subject .


I hope we all sleep well and remember where we left off tomorow .

 

[HeartCore]

So the strong language used by GOD is something different than not-so-strong language that is only aimed to attack another member (as in HCs example)

No GOD was threatening Caduceus, and then being childish about it. He's an asshole and a pathetic one too. And arrogant, I didn't lie or make it up, I just stated fact.

But this is the last time I am letting myself getting worked up about this retard who calls himself GOD, I'm done here for good this time because I don't feel like reading all posts GOD wrote the past weeks to see what other lies he told about me.

Have a great life all.