spore help

[sidefx]

i think i can only order over the net, spore print microscopy kits in the mail. not syringes.
can i grow from, spore print microscopy kits?

 

[darkwolfunseen]

As far as Australia, you can get it shipped (not sure about customs), but saying. As far as spore prints, it's possible, but syringes I would say are far more effective (both in inoculation method and the sterility). Hope that helps.

 

[Cultosaurus]

Although syringes make it much easier to nocc something up, you certainly can use spores from a print. I tried doing a search and from various sources, I find no spore vendors in Oz. If you know of any head shops, they sometimes carry either spores or growing myc, but that's only around here, I don't know what it would be like there. Also, there are many kinds of active shrooms that grow in Australia, if you can find someone who can properly ID some of them, you can make your own print or clone one.

If you get a spore print from off-shore, you can make your own syringe quite easily. Using a clean and unused ziplock bag, you would boil some water and allow it to cool. You have to have faith that your syringe is sterile by some means or other. You can PC it, you can boil it, but you have to insure that it's clean. Cleanliness is next to Shroominess.

Do not do anything with hot water for these next steps. Put the print that you have into the sterile ziplock bag, using the clean syringe, suck up some sterile boiled water into the syringe and squirt it into the baggie. Carefully mix up the water and spores and then suck the water back into the syringe. You don't even have to use the whole print, as a single print will have millions of spores on it, whether you can see them or not. The water may even look clear, but it will have spores.

Leave the syringe for a couple of days to hydrate the spores before using. You can, of course, use it strait away, but it will not be as fast to colonize when the spores are just wetted as the are.

The other options, and my preferred option, is to make an LC or put the spores to agar. The LC will give you tonnes more myc to work with and since you get actual live myc, this is also faster to colonize.

If you'd like, I can recommend several North American spore vendors that are very reputable. Just PM me if you wish. Also, orders get mailed in simple envelops and are almost never inspected by customs. But again, I'm not sure how Oz inspectors treat incoming mail. I've never had an issue here.

 

[ophiuchus]

The other options, and my preferred option, is to make an LC or put the spores to agar. The LC will give you tonnes more myc to work with and since you get actual live myc, this is also faster to colonize.

if a spore print is not obtainable, would one be able to use part of a dried mushroom instead? i have an idea of how one might go about it, but im not sure if it would work. i know the gills are where the spores come from, but idk if there is a viable method for this. i noticed that someone experimented with this once but it didn't work for them...

see, these (whole mush)are much easier for someone to get ahold of(than SP) while trying to operate on the down-low, thus could be important to some... any advice is appreciated

 

[IJesusChrist]

The other options, and my preferred option, is to make an LC or put the spores to agar. The LC will give you tonnes more myc to work with and since you get actual live myc, this is also faster to colonize.

if a spore print is not obtainable, would one be able to use part of a dried mushroom instead?

i dont think you can use dried mushroom - it has to be alive. but you can put this in some agar and it will sprout mycelium.

 

[Cultosaurus]

if a spore print is not obtainable, would one be able to use part of a dried mushroom instead? i have an idea of how one might go about it, but im not sure if it would work. i know the gills are where the spores come from, but idk if there is a viable method for this. i noticed that someone experimented with this once but it didn't work for them...

see, these (whole mush)are much easier for someone to get ahold of(than SP) while trying to operate on the down-low, thus could be important to some... any advice is appreciated

You may be able to get some spores from the gills of the shroom, but it is likely now contaminated. It is certainly possible to continue however. You would never be able to do anything with the dried mushroom, just the spores.

From the gills, you would take some of what should be the spores and put it to an agar plate. You'll get good healthy myc and you'll likely get what ever contams it has picked up. From the agar plate, once grown into mycelium, you find an area that is healthy, white, ropey mycelium and cut out a small piece and transfer it to another plate, thus leaving the contamination behind. This is how we clean a wild print. It is also how you would create an isolate of a particular strain of mushroom. The ropey part is going to be the strongest growth, thus the isolating. Not necessarily the most potent however. To try to iso for potency, you'd clone, as I describe below.

You may have to perform this transfer several times until all you have on your agar plate is just the uncontaminated mycelium. This can then be transferred to a jar of LC or to further plates to expand your supply. It can be transferred to jars of grain or BRF as well, if you wish to skip a step.

If you have a fresh wild mushroom that is not dried out, you can clone it. This involves cleaning it, cut it open and remove some of the interior and applying that to agar or to LC. Then you watch it for a while to insure that you've done a clean transfer and that it shows no contamination. You may have to perform the cleaning and repeated transfers as above, until you have a clean plate again. Then proceed again to the next step, to more agar, to LC or to your jars.

This can all be done very cheaply. A laminar flow hood is recommended, but a cheap GB will also work. Plastic petri plates are cheap and agar can be bought. I prefer to make my own agar for a couple of dollars as opposed to purchasing expensive jars of pre-made agar mix. It is also best to PC the agar and LC, but I have seen ppl microwave it successfully. And LC is cheap and easy, water and some kind of sugar, like honey, karo or corn syrop, molasses, raw sugars and some mason jars. I can provide a lid TEK if you need too.

I'm still new here and I haven't found all the old threads and TEKs that people have done up, so I don't know what you already have available here.

I hope this helps

Peace
Cult

 

[ophiuchus]

You may be able to get some spores from the gills of the shroom, but it is likely now contaminated. It is certainly possible to continue however. You would never be able to do anything with the dried mushroom, just the spores.

that's what i figured.

" ...uncontaminated mycelium. This can then be transferred to a jar of LC..."

i am fairly knowledgeable of agar and necessary mediums, as well as most procedures. but what is LC? never heard it mentioned before. if it is a cheaper alternative to agar, it sounds interesting. and the cheapest agar that i know of, is still a homemade recipe, but the agar-agar one needs is still pretty pricey... maybe there is a way to buy it in bulk, but the cheapest i have noticed is relatively $18 for a couple ounces...

"I prefer to make my own agar for a couple of dollars" ... "LC is cheap and easy, water and some kind of sugar, like honey, karo or corn syrop, molasses, raw sugars and some mason jars. I can provide a lid TEK if you need too.

I'm still new here and I haven't found all the old threads and TEKs that people have done up, so I don't know what you already have available here.

please enlighten me.

"lid" tek? i am familiar with most teks, never heard of this either. though i can't say that i have been avidly researching it like i used to, until just recently.

there is a LOT that has already been posted here. most teks are here with a good bit of troubleshooting too. this site used to be BOOMING, believe it or not...

 

[Cultosaurus]

but what is LC? never heard it mentioned before. if it is a cheaper alternative to agar, it sounds interesting. and the cheapest agar that i know of, is still a homemade recipe, but the agar-agar one needs is still pretty pricey... maybe there is a way to buy it in bulk, but the cheapest i have noticed is relatively $18 for a couple ounces...

"I prefer to make my own agar for a couple of dollars" ... "LC is cheap and easy, water and some kind of sugar, like honey, karo or corn syrop, molasses, raw sugars and some mason jars. I can provide a lid TEK if you need too.
I'm still new here and I haven't found all the old threads and TEKs that people have done up, so I don't know what you already have available here.

please enlighten me.
"lid" tek? i am familiar with most teks, never heard of this either. though i can't say that i have been avidly researching it like i used to, until just recently.

LC is Liquid Culture. It is similar to growing on agar, but it is essentially a sugar water for growing myc. Most commonly, people use Karo or Corn Syrop to make it. However, you can use honey, mollasses or agave neckter or any kind of liquid sweetness. You can also use a RAW sugar, non-refined, like Demura or Tamerind. You would use no more than 4% by weight. Remember that none of the liquids are 100% sugar, so, you would use something like 4.75 gm of honey to 100 gm of water.

There has always been talk of what's called 'sugar shock'. That is why I always prefer to use either a honey or molasses and some additives. Honey and Molasses have some mineral content that is good for the myc. Certainly, many people have great success with just karo or honey and water. You can also add some B vitamines, or a B complex, nutritional yeast, concentrace, kelp and use a river, pond or lake water. These will give the LC more mineral nutrition for your myc.

If you add any solids to the LC when making it, pour it through a coffee filter a few times to remove any solids from the LC.

LC will colonize your grain or BRF jars 3 to 10 times faster than a plain spore syringe as you have live active mycelium being input into the jars. It also allows you to expand your stock. From one print, you will never run out if you keep creating more LC from the one jar or to put it to agar to expand stock.

This is a very cheap and easy method. Always remember to PC your LC, or you can also microwave it. Do not go above 250 degrees F or 122 degrees C as this will caramelize the sugars in the liquid. It does not ruin the LC, but it will make it very brown or yellow and hard to see the growing myc inside the jar.

As for the 'Lid TEK', you just have to remember that you will be sucking liquid out of the jar and be creating a vacuum inside. You have to have some kind of way for air to enter the jar. I have seen what's called the Air Port, but I'm not fond of that one. The air port glues a syringe in the lid to allow air in. The syringe is filled with polyfil to prevent contams from entering. You can fill a hole with polyfil or put a layer of tyvek on the lid or under it, or cover the hole with micropore tape.

Agar is extremely cheap to make. I get agar-agar from and Asian shop for $2 Cdn for a small brick. The simplest agar is PDA or Potato Dextrose Agar. For the cost of a potato or 2 and some agar and jars or petris, you have very inexpensive agar. Here you can also add some of the nutrients that I have mentioned to make a better agar, but again, it's not necessary. Plain old PDA will work. I usually add kelp, nutritional yeast, concentrace and carrot.

I hope this helps

Peace
Cult

 

[sidefx]

sweeeet

 

[ophiuchus]

LC is Liquid Culture. It is similar to growing on agar, but it is essentially a sugar water for growing myc. Most commonly, people use Karo or Corn Syrop to make it. However, you can use honey

wow, that really seems cost effective... im surprised it isn't talked about more.

"asian markets" should have figured... intl' markets always seem to have the more obscure/rare items in bulk for cheap. good idea.

hmm, a lid tek seems like overcomplificationatingness to me. practical in some instances, but probably overkill for most. what do you think of no lid (or maybe a mesh lid) with a layer of peat to lock in moisture on the sub instead?

thanks for the awesome info so far

 

[Cultosaurus]

hmm, a lid tek seems like overcomplificationatingness to me. practical in some instances, but probably overkill for most. what do you think of no lid (or maybe a mesh lid) with a layer of peat to lock in moisture on the sub instead?

Well, anytime we make something for shrooming, it's usually refereed to as a TEK, a technique, because we all have our own way of doing things. There are several Lid TEKs, depending on where you intend to use them and how you like to do things. Some people use Whatmans filters and pre-made professional injection ports, but many of us just make simple things from what we have available. I would use a lid with 4 injection ports of RTV for a BRF jar, but for LC, I just put on a layer of Tyvek on the top and bottom and an RTV port to remove the LC. Some people just stuff polyfil into an open hole for GE.

As for a different kind of lid for LC, you could just put a layer of Tyvek over the top and hold it down with a ring. If you puncture the Tyvek, just cover that hole with micropore tape. You would never leave it open to the air, nor would you ever put peat in on top of it. LC is just a liquid, water and sugar and the peat would just mix in. It's a growing medium that is only intended to grow mycelium, and not to the ropey stage, just the fluffy cotton ball stage. Check the photos in the Quick and Easy. You'll see a couple of different kinds of lids in each of the photos. Whatmans are the white plastic and the injection ports are the blue ones. However, RTV will work for injection/removal, and micropore or tyvek or polyfil will work just fine for GE. Just remember that you cannot turn the jar upside down with polyfil, it must remain upright.

Here are a couple of TEKs for LC
Using Green Bean water : http://shroomotopia.net/index.php?showtopic=15249

Agave Nectar : http://shroomotopia.net/index.php?showtopic=7802

Quick and Easy with photos of PERFECT myc : http://shroomotopia.net/index.php?showtopic=16554

Some Information for the beginner : http://www.shroomery.org/9145/Liquid-Culture-Basics

I hope this helps
Peace
Cult

 

[ophiuchus]

oh, no no sorry. i see now that you meant a lid tek for the liquid culture... what i mentioned, was using peat to cover the sub, the brf. my bad, should have been more clear...

though while we're here, would not a simple glovebox do just as well? that is, just use a regular
'ol lid on the lc, and use a converted oven, or glovebox to extract mycelium? duct tape and garbage bags appear to be a more casual purchase than obtaining needles for syringes. may just be a matter of preference...?

(EDIT)

i even registered, but the shroomotopia links don't work... :\

 

[IJesusChrist]

Hey Cultosaur, you seem on top of your stuff -

Have you any experience with adding tryptophan to mycelium substrates?? I've heard rumors it works, but obviously the internet is full of false!

 

[Cultosaurus]

oh, no no sorry. i see now that you meant a lid tek for the liquid culture... what i mentioned, was using peat to cover the sub, the brf. my bad, should have been more clear...
though while we're here, would not a simple glovebox do just as well? that is, just use a regular
'ol lid on the lc, and use a converted oven, or glovebox to extract mycelium? duct tape and garbage bags appear to be a more casual purchase than obtaining needles for syringes. may just be a matter of preference...?
(EDIT)
i even registered, but the shroomotopia links don't work... :\

Sorry about the Shroomotopia links, yes, we've been having some funny things happen unless you're logged in. Use the main page and sign in, then the links will work. There are no persons needing validation, so you must have been activated. As a regular user, you can get to all areas except some hidden ones that are just for long time members.

A GB for working in is always a great idea. I just use a cheap clear plastic tote and glue a glass window in the top. The glass came from the dollar store and was only a buck. If you're in Europe, you might not know what a dollar store is. Everything is a buck. I have 2 arm holes in the side and work with bare hands. Some people put rubber gloves on the holes and connect to some 4 inch plumbing connections. It's not needed, but if it makes you feel more comfortable, go for it. I had some gloves on but removed them .. .. I couldn't operate the lighter to light my alcohol burner with gloves on.

Peat and verm work very well as a casing for a sub. Many people don't even use a casing anymore. It helps keep the sub moist though, so yes, many of the TEKs that we use are personal choice.

I wouldn't use peat on top of a BRF jar though. In fact, if you have a good lid, you don't even need the verm layer. The verm layer was added many years ago as a contamination barrier. If contams came in from a poor lid, then they would stop at the verm. However, if you have a good lid with either tyvek or micropore tape or how ever you chose, you can get away without adding the verm layer.

Technically, you can do the work without syringes, it just makes it a lot easier. You can reuse syringes if you've bought one that is full of spores, or they are available from the internet. We have a Tractor Supply, which is a farmer's store, that I get my syringes from. They're used for veterinary purposes so they come sterile and are commonly used here.

Hey Cultosaur, you seem on top of your stuff -
Have you any experience with adding tryptophan to mycelium substrates?? I've heard rumors it works, but obviously the internet is full of false!

I've heard of it, but I've never tried it. From what I've read, it doesn't add much to the shroom. To get a stronger shroom, you need better genetics and proper nutrition. If cubes aren't strong enough, go for either azures or cyans. In the cube world, the strongest would be the PE, APE and then WZ. After that, a cube is a cube is a cube and it's all subjective. Some ppl prefer the Thais, like me, some the south American, just personal taste.

 

[DrPsilocin]

I live in australia and am a spore supplier for microscopy study.

I have P.Cubensis, Good Spore deposit,Quick delivery.


garunteed sterile.

 

[IamYou]

Hey guys I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or not for this. My friend has a compost tumbler and we were discussing trying to grow shrooms when temps. warm up. Has anyone tried this method? I've been researching it but I figured someone here might be able to give some input

 

[Cultosaurus]

Although I've never tried using a composter to grow in, the compost would certainly be a great sub for the shrooms. Add some grasses and grains and you'll essentially have animal poo which is great sub for cubes. It will, of course, be minus the effects of digestion, but composting should leave all the nutrients in it.

If you want to try woodies, just add wood chips or sawdust to the compost.

If you put worms into it, you'll get worm castings, which is great fertilizer for plants, cannabis especially loves worm poo.

 

[IamYou]

I plan on getting animal poo from one of the farms over the bridge in new jersey. I'll call them and ask "do you have any horse shit for sale?"