Spoiler: It's a Bummer

[LFA]

Some say that psychadelics are a step on the way and not the goal, I tend to think it is true.
You could think of it as cheating, if you consider that psych users have an "advantage" upon others as far as "spirituality" and stuff (you'll know what I mean) but then you would have to consider practicing sport as "cheating" as well

 

[Zosimos]

What thing that comes to mind, what about like NDE's from drugs?(Ketamine,DMT,etc) I always wondered if there was some kind of negative effect from continually going to the afterlife when your aren't really necessarily ready or officially supposed to. Kind of like toying with death maybe. Of course I'm not saying by fact that it is, the after life where u go, but it seems to be obviously pretty much that. Also like to say, I'm not as experienced as maybe some are by any means, only have had 2 NDE's, just wondered if anyone else thought about this

 

[sidefx]

the only thing i can think of about NDE's, 'or being in a state of altered conscious so much' is that reality or more the way the world is run, becomes so obvious.
i cant stand it a lot of the time the rushing around the anger some people thrive off in this reality to get their day over.
how they just accept the length of the leash the government has on them.
to be in a state of altered conscious seems to free my mind.
so i can forget about the governments plundering what is left as natural resources to become powerful for today not thinking about the future generations; "Who are going to wake up and ask what were they thinking, BARBARIANS, they will call us Stupid.

just down the road they are ripping up a huge swamp area full of healthy Frogs and stuff and putting in a new highway to the city spending like 6 billion on it. cant even laugh at the stupidity.

psychedelics i believe will fuel the awakening of enough minds to bring a change before there is nothing left, i cant stress how disgusting it is what the people in charge of this world are doing, i mean there is so many more
of us than them. it is our world.
i am paying off a personal loan i stupidly took, and then i am backpacking the world i will not add to the power of the government. they should be ashamed.

 

[sidefx]

What thing that comes to mind, what about like NDE's from drugs?(Ketamine,DMT,etc) I always wondered if there was some kind of negative effect from continually going to the afterlife when your aren't really necessarily ready or officially supposed to. Kind of like toying with death maybe.

Actually that is why most cultures around the world took mind altering molecules and meditated to be ready for death and to connect further with the 'unseen' the 'non-material'.

i believe it is natural to alter ones conscious, for our minds would not react so profoundly to psychedelics if they were not supposed to.

during altered states through ketamine i have been to mexico, i have been inside ancient temples, i have traveled back in time and i actually shared this experience with my brother or maybe it was an ultra-conscious de-ja-vu?, i have hugged my brother and both melted together weird we both slowly mentioned this to realise we both experienced this to, i and my brother have seen hallucinations that we ended up experiencing both different.

ketamine is a very powerful entheogen largely over looked because of it being synthetic it is very special, i love it.

and you can read my first experience with crystal dmt in the 'Trip reports' forum under Crystal DMT 1st time.

i believe the world needs entheogens, to bring us closer together instead of further away, and if you have ever been to a ' psychedelic Hippy festival' you would feel exactly the same.

stop destroying the earth please, say no to plastic, carry those few items home with your hands.Peace Out.

 

[sidefx]

-- I should add that i do not regularly take entheogens these days nor alcohol nor cannabis, only on occasion mostly. i strive for knowledge now. .apart from partaking in DMT every 3 months.

i am 25 and i am glad of the point i am in life, and i have entheogens and their community to thank for this, for i grew up around hardened gangs i have family members in dangerous gangs and i was to put it nicely, a very dodgy youth myself.

but that is all behind me now, i have a few friends from the same background who have been saved by the psychedelic community also, but even more who simply have not.

i will always emphasize & promote the goodness of this way of life, the search to connect all - instead of finding differences.

entheogens do bring change fast but in a short life it is what most people really need. *an open mind*

i say if you cant see the good the psychedelic community has then you have not truly opened your own eyes.

 

[sidefx]

ALTERED Conscious is apart of human culture since the beginning until now and tomorrow forever

 

[EewDefining]

Sticki is right when he points to ethics. I personally believe there isnt any thing unethical about the use of drugs to heighten oneself, But like with most ethical questions, different people will view it a different way.

A paper i wrote about 4 years ago keeps popping up in my mind. It was about "Nature." I made an argument that i still don't know if i agree with.

I said everything was "natural" I said that because humans are natural then anything we create is also "of nature"
This seemed pretty revolutionary, but I talked about it with a friend and he brought up a great point.

With that logic you can through religion and ethics out the window. Because anything you do, no mater how bad, it would still be natural.

I guess i raise the question, If we are natural and eveything we create is of nature(natural) then do we have to work against nature? And would that be natural?

 

[sidefx]

"With that logic you can through religion and ethics out the window. Because anything you do, no mater how bad, it would still be natural."

i guess it all depends, if you think we are mutations of the same animal ancestors,
or if you believe humans have a Purpose on our Earth and were 'Put Here' for a reason, and are different for a reason. Logic.

?

 

[EewDefining]

Yea, Either humans and what they make are natural or neither of it is. I'm gunna go with the later.

Why couldn't god and the reason we were put here be natural as well?

 

[ophiuchus]

i believe everything to be natural. i can base this on an axiom that: nothing that is created by humans was not inherently/simultaneously also created by the universe. we are as much universe as anything else. if one wishes to state that the universe is not natural, then by what logic may anything be considered natural?

 

[sidefx]

i believe as having consciousness and intelligence intellect, our goal as a race should be to improve on this and to not act as animals, and destroy things or to harm.
i think we should make this world better than it was before we got here.
violence is a stone age emotion. that we should abolish.

we no bad from good for a reason.

i do not believe the majority of what goes on today is natural. or the reason we are here.

animals do not rip down whole rainforests, perform ethnic cleansing, rip every type of mineral from the earth, poison water.

i believe we are natural, but being conscious of the things we do we are supposed to use and build our self control which we have.
i think we should not act like the animals with Violence, because we are different

this has many angles this topic

 

[BrainEater]

the idea that seems to come to mind is virtual reality. because like in the movie the matrix we could ask ourselves: is the reality that we live in or think we live in real or as real as we think??? it could also be that our life is just a simulation of human experience...
i would say in a certain sense it is certainly like that, because we all dream and experience reality as individuals (supposedly).
the question would be... how could we distinguish between virtual reality and "real reality"??
in my opinion the answer is easy... all you possibly need to do is to try to practice mindfulness not only while awake, but also
while asleep...
to me this just means to be present, to be there... i dunno lol.. i guess you know how you can be there and not really be there, too at the same time... as far as i understand this could be, because a lot of people identify themselves with their mind and think it's who they are.
apart from that (ego-)projections seem to be a very common behaviour. in my opinion the question is whether it is or even can be recognized as such...
i think the solution is to not take yourself or the world too seriously in some way all the time, but to try to find a healthy balance or so.
if you ask me, the best way to live life is to enjoy it without causing harm to others.
now i also have one possibly philosophical question: so maybe forcing someone to do harm is to do double harm??



peace

 

[Hermit]

was reading this thread today and found this cool interview by chance tonight (around 00:48 seconds...the question posed is slightly different but I think its really relevant to these kind of debates)

my first post in aaages, I'm going through a self-help programme at the moment in which many people seem to feel that having had addictive episodes with weed/alcohol/uppers in the past, spirituality can be..cultivated much more easily by being sober. Psychedelics seem more of a grey area...a lot of people in general seem to be more widely concerned with potential negative effects on mental health rather than their value outside of recreation; which I'm perhaps beginning to think is more fair than I used too, but then I wouldn't be on here if I didn't believe them to be amazingly important and enlightening.

For me I guess I recognize the necessity for some 'clear-headedness' and to maybe try to deal with myself and emotional issues etc. without/before tripping. I don't agree with the idea that 'getting there' through sobriety has anymore value than tripping though...how could it? Lately I've gone through much trying to have a lot more honesty/open-ness in my life, in ways that I wasn't ever really forced to confront in any progressive way by LSD/Mushrooms/LSA/DMT/previous trips (on DMT I actually had a very painful emotional/pyschological experience because of the messed up space I was in when I chose to do it; 3 trips one after another relentlessly thinking on some level that I could 'push myself' to somekind of ultimate escape..I was a fucking idiot!), maybe because at those times this stuff wasn't relevant or clear to me circumstantially; I think also I was probably just as easily delusional whether using Psychedelics as tools or not, I don't think it matters. I'm sure I won't ever stop having things to discover and explore and have to try and be as open and aware as I can be in all respects I think... all part of an ongoing process..

I'm thinking I'd like to try taking a plant hallucinogen at some point in the not too distant future and see how my ego fares, trying to attempt what I would hope to be one of the most genuine/least contrived 'surrenders' I've been able to have.

 

[KrispedKritter]

Hah, I found that video on the web yesterday, decided to watch it, searched for it on my computer, and found it in even better quality. Didn't watch it though, am saving it for today when I have company.

To me the notion of being puritan-spiritual (that is, going on a "pure" diet and not doing any drugs of any kind) seems either/and silly and glorious. Having said that, I think that the glory part (honourable, maybe?) would be more appliable if you do it from the start, and that train has already sailed long ago. Otherwise, hallucinogens (together with thc) make a great tool for paving the way, letting you meditate freely down the highway for as long as you have the nerve/patience to actually do it.

Hallucinogens to me seem like a great tool for personal and spiritual freedom (from ego, I suppose, even though during my last couple of trips the ego has really, really, rooted itself, crying out in pain that "You"'d be losing all your friends, family, girlfriend, again, even though I know that's poppycock) as long as you take them with spiritual, exploratory intent. I look at my (I would like to say fellow heads, but I'm not sure I can muster it...) //// rave scene here in Sweden and it only produces a gasp of exasperation: people come to the scene, they take drugs (mostly LSD/MDMA, when it comes to hallucinogens at least) to get into the scene and dance the night away. They go home, find purpose, take more drugs, make purpose--electronic music is huge, for example--to take more drugs, come back to the rave scene to spread their music while taking drugs, then going home to keep taking drugs in order to produce more to spread (in order to take more drugs).

For most of them (not all, I've met some very neat Universal people) it just seems like a vicious circle. Personally, I've already grown tired of watching the same film on acid over and over again (even so, given the opportunity I would probably take it, depending on mood/set/setting) but I can't deny that it has lead me on a personal path towards spiritual freedom and empowerent. Right now, though, I'm squiggling my hands trying to get some money in order to grow mushrooms again (THAT's where the action lies, McKenna has convinved me .. -.-" ) and/or extract DMT (probably in a farther away future).

But even so, if I get my mushrooms, what then? Sure, I might be able to get the full-on hallucinations that I've been looking for "so long", and hopefully it'll help me set the path towards the next goal in my personal life, even though I already have several (education, music, art, knowledge). Compared to LSD (or LSA, actually..), I think psilocybes would make a far better plant spirit ally, as it actually speaks to you. LSA does too, in a way, but I still think it's just one of my own voices, compared to the voice of psilocybes. DMT? well, I just don't know yet.

If you're in for plant hallucinogens, go large. I've found that to really break through on, say, HBW, you need to up the dose. When in doubt, double the dose!