Spiral Dynamics

[restin]

I am very sorry then, I was too imprecise in reading and too fast in making conclusions. I'l re-thing what was said :wink:

 

[Nomada]

@Nomada's Epistemological Rigidity comment.

I think you are right in pointing that out, but I also think that all systems and models do that. Add to that the fact that this system most likely differs from the system most people have and a confrontation between the two could actually be liberating us from both.

I like the way they look at things: they join history, science, religion and mass-psychology in a grand effort to explain our own development.

Fork,
I don't think all systems and models do that. That's why I said the thing about the greatest circus attraction being the colorful dancing of those that cannot see beyond their reality island--if I'm allowed the Wilson category a bit. Linguistic, ideological, analytical apparatuses conscious of their genesis as process in a place where different processes converge, interact and thus end up co-producing reality together I immediately identify with epistemological movement, continuous transformation--an affirmation by itself meant as purely scientific, without ideological baggage obscured lenses [although this is impossible]. I said epistemological rigidity because the author's language sometimes didn't keep up with his formal affirmations and logical progressions.

You are right in pointing that meeting the Other, more specifically a coherent other, one that brings about an articulated cosmology can be quite liberating. It releases the roots from their home ground --the place where they once where, firmly rooted in brain wash cultural institutions-- and congratulates with the news that if you break the world it really doesn't break, it reformulates itself, new meaning plethora in the core and emanating. Their holistic perspective is also a thing to be thankful for.

On colors,
Really knowing what one is feeling is quite a virtue. Most of the time I react to some particular phenomenon and until some time later do I have the time to analise and understand what really went down. Programming oneself with colors can be interesting--I've been training this in Yoga. It is not useful because it reveals a "truth" beyond what you are--like some sort of psychic power loony traskel-- but because it may hint how you yourself are reacting to a particular stimulus, like a "direct" channel with your subconscious operating independently of one's linear progressions. You get to know yourself and then you move on. This obviously brings its own set of problems, like the quality of the programming made, how exactly are the set of associations made and under what circumstances, etc; but that's another discussion I think I already wrote too much. lol.

 

[Nomada]

Note: The expression "beyond reality island" need not be confused with knowing more, having more control or anything like that. It refers to being conscious of the fact that inescapably one will, at some later point or another, be standing on another reality island.

 

[st.bot.32]

because it may hint how you yourself are reacting to a particular stimulus, like a "direct" channel with your subconscious operating independently of one's linear progressions. You get to know yourself and then you move on. This obviously brings its own set of problems, like the quality of the programming made, how exactly are the set of associations made and under what circumstances, etc

So nicely said...this is what I look for when I take (some) drugs in general as well.

I was a bit unfair yesterday, but maybe it's because I'm easily predisposed to crossmodal and synesthesic experiences, even from just smoking pot. Many times when I'm smoking pot I spontaneously visualize aspects in society such as politics, belief systems and religion as geometrical structures, statistical bell curves, vectors, etc. These can be very useful, insightful experiences, and not always so much the models themselves, but the particular associations I'm making during the experience: they give me clues into how I subconsciously see the world that, once the fireworks have worn off (back to baseline that is), and I think about them for a while I tend to find incredibly accurate and at some points in my life have been quite healing and life changing actually

This filter on the world could be a useful/fascinating reality exercise for some, I won't knock it... I see it as one person's trip, another synesthesic/crossmodal experience and model, and it makes me far more fascinated with the originator of the model than with the model. Also the color associations are somewhat Occidental in nature, IMO

 

[Nomada]

If you approach "zero" value by eliminating your end of the bargain--your subjective generative line--, if anything, what is left then?

can the tunnel be left open permanently, and its flow of information made also permanently accessible? can it be somatized as a permanent hallucination?

Things within us are always permanently accessible I believe. The problem is how. Bear this in mind when reading the above.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Here I'll explain something:

If someone ever tries to explain the grand-scheme of evolution without the concept of chemical reactions or quantum mechanics, that person has smoked way too much pot and hasn't gotten enough education.

Evolution is an amazing force, an energy. It is only allowed under certain conditions, but is beyond exponential in its capacity for complexity. It may seem like a "spiral" -wtf- but it is truly non-comprehensible. Its origins come from the laws of physics, and it has no end, or if it does, it is simply "conciousness" as an endpoint.

I obviously came up with this while smoking too much weed, during a summer with no educational stimuli.