Shrooms or Mesc? for a first timer..

[Entheonaut]

"Don't do cocaine, even if you think it's harmless (it's not). It takes you in the opposite direction mushrooms will take you. If you think cocaine is great, you'll probably hate shrooms."

So since i liked the experience of cocaine, i should not go for the shrooms?

Cocaine gives you total control, it depresses your fear and anxiety. It stimulates dopamine receptors in your brain, making you feel pleased, and without worries. But it is neurotoxic, so it kills brain cells.

Mushrooms (Psicybine) makes you trip, wich changes the way you perceive the world around you. You'll have thoughts you would never come up with when you are sober. Psychedelics can increase and decrease your senses, it certainly changes something. You will experience your emotions more intense, transforming joy into divine happyness and euphoria. But it's also possible that the slightest feeling of fear / depression, or any psychological "problem", seems like it can be the end of the world... But don't worry, trust the mushroom, you'll always come back to the "real-world", allthough sometimes you might think otherwise 8).

Read alot about mushrooms before you try them. It's a million times better to do psychedelics than mind-narrowing drugs, but use them with caution.

I really recommend you read http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms.shtml

"Don't do cocaine, even if you think it's harmless (it's not). It takes you in the opposite direction mushrooms will take you. If you think cocaine is great, you'll probably hate shrooms."

So since i liked the experience of cocaine, i should not go for the shrooms?

Cocaine and psilo are totally different, that is true. I love the feeling of cocaine, but I know it's fake, it doesn't improve my view on life. Also knowing it's quite unhealthy I say try to stay away from cocaine.
Mushrooms are more my kind of thing, I couldn't live without them... Just like alot of other tryptamines and phenetylamines. They really have changed my life for the best.

 

[Psychoid]

I dont know why, but I've also looked at it this way:
(first as the least harmful)

1. Cannabis
2. Cocaine
3. Amphetamine
4. stuff like ecstasy
5. then psychadelic substances like mushrooms and mescaline etc.
6. LSD
7. And as one of the most dangerous drugs, Heroine.

But this list seems redicoulesly wrong now, thanks to you guys ^

And the plan was to eat the cacti, fresh.

Let me correct that list

1. Shrooms/LSD/mescaline/DMT
2. Cannabis
3. Ecstasy
4. Amphetamines
5. Coke
6 Heroin

Is that right?

 

[EnCoder]

what kind of permanent effects?

irreality feelings, kaleidoscopic patterns on reality, depression...But I have to admit I was kinda depressive before I did psychedelics.

Psychedelics can do wonders for depression if you take them with a plan. Without a plan, you are 'just' widening your filters. Do it often enough and your reality filters will be ofbase for a while.

Did you recover completely and are you approaching these plants in a different way now?

my actual approach of these plants and chemicals is that i completely stopped having them...I also did a lot of ecstasy those last years, and I think it's the major cause of what happened to me.

 

[Jahvisions]

"When judging the harmfulness of cocaine, don't just look at its impact on the physical body."

Coke is cardiotoxic and neurotoxic

 

[Dantediv86]

Let me correct that list

1. Shrooms/LSD/mescaline/DMT
2. Cannabis
3. Ecstasy
4. Amphetamines
5. Coke
6 Heroin

Is that right?

almost

0. DMT
1. Shrooms/LSD/mescaline
2. Cannabis
3. Ecstasy
4. Amphetamines
5. Coke
6 Heroin

 

[Jahvisions]

It depends how you look at it. i thought amphetamines are more toxic then coke.

The study where mindastronaut was refering to seems reliable cause the Lancet is a respected magazine in Science. They devided harm 9 parameters: [Physical harm; (1: acute 2: chronic 3: intravenous harm)], [ Dependence; (4: intensity of pleasure, 5: psychological dependence, 6: Physical dependence)], [Social harm; (7: intoxication 8: other social harms 9: health-care costs)] So where are we talking about?

And I was wondering where you got the information that DMT is less harmfull then Shrooms/LSD/mescaline ???

 

[Dantediv86]

cause it's synthetised by the pineal gland therfore being naturally occurring in a human body is even less harmful than, say, psylocibin.

 

[Jahvisions]

Seems logical but that's no necassary truth, because something is natural or produced by our own body doens't mean it less harmfull. Think of oxygen radicals produced by our own body or histamine what can lead to all kind of damage.

 

[Dantediv86]

yes yes of course but in comparison to other substances that are surrogates to the one we have in our body if we take DMT which is already produced during sleep it is less problematic because the body naturaly deals with it like with histamines and peroxides and free radicals, know what i mean?
However this is a neurotransmitter not a substance that acts like it or that attaches to neuronal pathways, often destroying them, to trigger hallucination. we produce this when we DREAM!!

 

[Brugmansia]

Amphetamines are pshysically way more harmful than cocaine. The duration is much longer and can take ages before you can eat and sleep. With cocaine, the effects wear off very quickly, 2 hours after your last line you may be in able to sleep and eat.

Though mentally you can have a much stronger craving for cocaine than speed. Speed primairly gives a hang-over of tireness and relatively less irritation and depression. Cocaine however, gives a less physical energy hang-over, but mentally the down is worse, especially with frequent use or higher doses/smoking.

Either, both of these substances can't be compared with shrooms or mesca. And both drive you insane with chronic and heavy use.

Shrooms provide a much more powerful change in consciousness than stimulants such as speed or cocaine, most speed/coke likers are afraid for the effects of psychedelics.

With mesca, I experienced a wonderful LINEAR trip with a covered softness and calmness, hypersensitive awareness of cleaness in my body and mind. Brain damange!? Haha, mesca is a medicine to detect every tiny fault in your system. It's a long-lasting psychedelic, but not a signal sign of unpleasant feelings, I guarantee you. It's so nice and warm. Truly emotional trip.

Start on an entire empty stomach and try not to throw up, you need a lot of cactus! But it's worth it.

Shrooms provides me a trip with ups and downs, the ups are spiritual and very profound. During the up, the facination is intens. During the down, they confront you with your weaknesses and fear. This can be a very interesting teacher but also causes inconfidence by some. They are much easier to ingest than mesca. The amount is small and easy to swallow.

It's up to you what you choose, if you go for the shrooms, you may have already experienced a more difficult psychedelic. 'Cause LSD and Mesca is much easier to control than shrooms, especially higher doses of shrooms can cause confusion by starters.

 

[HeartCore]

My point of view

-1 Shrooms/LSD/DMT (when used with respect and/or proper preparation, danger is too low to even consider, au contrary, they can seriously empower someone to recreate their own lives. Check out the number of mushroom incidents reported international worldwide).
0. Life (since we are all on deathrow anyway)
1-5. Television (depending on how aware you really are.
2. Cannabis (because of the lungs, however, latest research seems to suggest that cannabis use does NOT increase chances of developing lungcancer.)
3. mescaline (because you need a lot for it to trip and although safe, compared to mushrooms its relatively dangerous so could be in -1 for all I care)
4. Ecstasy (no long term effect research has been done. Rare use seems safe but it still removes stuff from your brain that scientist don't know what it is used for appearently)
5. coffee (do some googling)
6 Heroin/ Amphetamines/'Coke/nicotine (highly addictive substances with real dangers to our body)

 

[Brugmansia]

^ Mescaline dangerous!? :? You gotta explain that to me. :\

Coffee more harmful than ecstasy? Xtc defintely is a body demolisher.

Heroin most harmful? :? Explain that too, just an opiate high makes some instantly addictive. But harmful? :\

And GHB however, even builds up body.

 

[HeartCore]

^ Mescaline dangerous!? :? You gotta explain that to me. :\

Coffee more harmful than ecstasy? Xtc defintely is a body demolisher.

Heroin most harmful? :? Explain that too, just an opiate high makes some instantly addictive. But harmful? :\

And GHB however, even builds up body.

I will explain my point of view more

Mescaline is relatively dangerous compared to tryptamines. Relatively means its still very safe, but if you have to put it on a scale, its less safe than aforementioned tryptamines. The dosage you need is massive compared to what you need for a psilocybin trip and monstrous if you compare it to lsd. Also the ld50 value is way more dangerour than that of psilocybin. Still, its safe but we are putting it on a scale here

Coffee/xtc, if I use as 'intended', I would use coffee like 3-6 times per day in a productive office environment. Xtc I would take once per season max. because the classic mdma effects just don't happen when you abuse the substance. Coffee is impacting my health much more if I would have kept drinking it in such, socially accepted, large amounts.

Heroin/Opiates have a high addiction rate. Addiction is unhealthy and has a tendency to control parts of your life so thats why in my personal list, I categorize it together with nicotine and cocaine in harmful substances..

Hope that cleared it up

Love/peace
HC


Coffee

 

[Brugmansia]

Thanks for clearing up though. Even if I still don't get how anyone could ingest a fatal dose of Mescaline. LOL.

Seriously, recently I ate a shitload of San pedro, 60 cm thick. Excessively long duration, 16 to 18 hours noticeable effects. But physically there's no change in body temprature, increased or decreased heartbeart or signs of drying out. No addiction, not a single paranoid thought.

With acid, it is possible if one drinks liquid acid. Still extremely rare. But with Mescaline, you can't even eat more than 60 cm San pedro I'd say. For most people, it's even hard to eat enough to reach the treshold.

A few grams Mescaline powder at once, which is extremly hard to obtain, will perhaps do it. But then still curious about the physical cause.

I gotta agree with you on E and H, I'm using E rarely as well. H gets one easily hooked, but smoking it on foils few times a year won't hurt either. It's all about proportions and frequency. But H and doing it once is fire and ice.

 

[HeartCore]

I gotta agree with you on E and H, I'm using E rarely as well. H gets one easily hooked, but smoking it on foils few times a year won't hurt either. It's all about proportions and frequency. But H and doing it once is fire and ice.

Don't worry, you agree with the mescalin as well, it's just that I'm telliing it wrong

Let me try again.

According to Shulgin, the experiental dose of mescalin is between 300 and 500 mg. The average active dose of psilocybin, is 10-30mg. A huge difference? LSD active dose is in the millions of a gram.

To have a 50% change to die from psilocybin, you would have to take about 650 times the active dose (this is called the ld50). The ld50 of mescalin is much lower than mushrooms, I can't find it but say that to kill yourself, you have to take 10 times the active dose. Still its almost impossible to eat such an amount of cacti but if you look at from that point of view, they are more dangerous

H gets one easily hooked, but smoking it on foils few times a year won't hurt either.

So you really think H-junkies where junkies from the start?

Love/peace
HC

 

[izmar]

From what I've learned from an article by MAPS, the actual damage done by XTC has never been scientifically established. I think it all depends on the dose, frequency and metabolism of the user. Furthermore, for me it feels like a high dose of any psychedelic can cause serotonin action similar to low doses of MDMA (around 80mg and lower).[/code]

 

[Dantediv86]

back on Topic
i can't advise on which one's best having tried only A. Muscarias. i can say try both, only then you'll know, and the physical damage and/or addiction potential of both is absolutely = to 0 if you have a sober sitter by your side. what else?

 

[petfles]

I have yet to experience mescaline. Reading makes me wonder, and it sounds like a wonderfull dreamlike state.

Mushrooms can help you see and feel the same in nature.
This dreamstate is the thing i love most in mushrooms, being able to walk around and seeing everything for the first time

I believe the spiritual feeling mushrooms will give you, does last a long time. Again, i haven't done cactus. But mushrooms can provide a lot of new knowledge en feelings. It is actually beyond normal control, like dreaming. Learning to control the dreaming state in reality must have effects on the control people have in their dreams. Learning to be a true observer. So no harm in mushrooms, just perspective.

 

[Brugmansia]

Seriously, what I can say about Mescaline is that if I were an Indian and lived in the jungle with animals, plants and green, water and mountains around me. All I needed would be unlimited Mescaline and life. And others.

With mushies wored off, it's done. With Mesca, I'd ingest a dose for three days if I could.

It is possibly the best drug I have ever tried, no let me rephrase, it IS! But since I live in the Western modern world, I just can't classify it as the only thing I'd need. But my soul says yes.