Seems like this was it.

[GOD]

Hallucinogens dont cause nerve damage or stop / limit / slow down blood flow noticably . There is no conection between hallucinogens and paralysation . There is a difference between constricting blood vessels and paralysation caused by nerve damage . You need a new doctor ( or at least he should justify / explain what he said , why he said it and what proof he has ) . I have always told my doctors that i used "drugs" and they dont give a shit but they always warned me against poisons like tobaco and alcohol . Most doctors and their teachers havent got a clue about "drugs" , they come from a generation that jealously rejects any medical advice or expertise other than their own .


"Ergot poisoning works by constricting blood vessels. "

LSD doesnt cause ergot poisoning .

So , first , we go to our doctor and get him to explain . We explain to him that we need facts / proof , that we are VERY scared about being threatened with paralysis since he mentioned it and need to know the details . Can he give a few references to studys and / or case historys please . Then if that doesnt work we get a new doctor . ( If he tells you there isnt one or threatens to break off the therapy we go to the emergancy department / intensive care department of our hospital and ask them . They are less burocratic and have a duty to help weather they like it or not . They also usualy stick to the facts and concentrate on helping and not on spreading drug stigmas ) .

 

[Meduzz]

LSD doesnt cause ergot poisoning .

No it doesn't but LSD also constricts blood vessels. And the molecules being similar...

Any drug that enables the sympathetic nervous system (the fight or flight state) indirectly constricts blood vessels.

 

[ararat]

The reason why I said I would personally continue using psychedelics, is that in misery's retelling of the story, the doctor never brought up psychedelics, he just mentioned an extremely potent vasoconstrictor (nicotene) that's inhaled along with millions of toxins that directly damage your capillaries and what not.

well he mentioned several different drugs, including mushrooms, which probably doesn't mean anything at all..

To be on the safe side, be careful with all other vasoconstrictors like cafeine, but don't be too worried about it either. Just don't smoke cigs, excellent advise. Yes, psychedelics influence the circulation, but not that much (depending on the substance of course). Moreover, you're not constricting your blood vessals on a daily or hourly basis, as happens with cigarettes.

funny is, he said caffeine is OK.
I thought the same about the daily/sometimes thing, and that they can't constrict the vessels THAT much.. but having a prickley feel in/at the sole and weak legs and arms made me a bit skeptical. this is when I started researching.

Ginseng on a daily basis may be a good idea. as an adaptogen it can stabilise blood flow among other things. it has to be taken regularly to work though.

thanks for the tip, I'm definitely gonna read up about that and see where I can get some. same thing for gingko.

Peripheral Actions
These include an oxytocic action and constriction of the blood vessels of isolated vascular beds.

I've read the same quite often, but I don't know what isolated vascular beds are, looking for translations/explanation hasn't shed any light on the term.

So , first , we go to our doctor and get him to explain . We explain to him that we need facts / proof , that we are VERY scared about being threatened with paralysis since he mentioned it and need to know the details . Can he give a few references to studys and / or case historys please . Then if that doesnt work we get a new doctor .

the problem is, he's in boston, I'm in austria. BUT I've been researching yesterday and found out that a few months ago, a radiation center for that kind of matter has opened in the local hospital. I will definitely go there.

If I were in misery's shoes, I'd simply become a health freak and continue doing psychedelics. But it's up to him of course.

I'm very eager to do so.



It's very nice to hear opinions from people who didn't/don't panic and get all pessimistic. thanks guys :heart:

 

[druglessdouglas]

"It's very nice to hear opinions from people who didn't/don't panic and get all pessimistic. thanks guys "

you arend dead yet! there are no ploblems, only solutions

in your case the solutions should contain Ginkgo and ginseng. preferably Korean

@ CaduceusMercurius i always wanted to study pharmacology but because of my ancient and "spent" drug convictions there is no way i could even get on a course here. id have to study in Englandshire because communication between english and scottish police forces is poor

 

[Pariah]

"The effects of halluncinogenic drugs on helically cut strips of human umbilical veins and sheep umbilical arteries were studied. Muscle activity at 37°C was recorded isotonically under 1 g of tension. Bufotenine, psilocin, psilocybin, mescaline and d-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) all produced contractions of umbilical vasculature with LSD being the most potent. The contractions to all hallucinogens were antagonized by cinanserin. In addition, 2-bromolysergic acid diethylamide anatagonized responses to mescaline and LSD on sheep umbilical arteries. Concentrations of piperoxan, tripelennamine and atropine which antagonized responses to epinephrine, histamine and acetylcholine, respectively, did not antagonize responses to LSD, bufotenine or serotonin. We conclude that all of the hallucinogens studied produced constractions via serotoniergic receptors on umbilical vasculature."



http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/conte ... /184/2/366

 

[restin]

Pariah: You could quote Ulysses and I would understand the same.

 

[Pariah]

I suppose, but just incase this might still make more sense:

"- I am the resurrection and the life. That touches a man's in most heart.
- It does, Mr Bloom said.
Your heart perhaps but what price the fellow in the six feet by two with his toes to the daisies? No touching that. Seat of the affections. Broken heart. A pump after all, pumping thousands of gallons of blood every day. One fine day it gets bunged up: and there you are. Lots of them lying around here: lungs, hearts, livers. Old rusty pumps: damn the thing else. The resurrection and the life. Once you are dead you are dead. That last day idea. Knocking them all up out of their graves. Come forth, Lazarus! And he came fifth and lost the job. Get up! Last day! Then every fellow mousing around for his liver and his lights and the rest of his traps. Find damn all of himself that morning."


Ulysses

 

[restin]

aha ! I see ! In that case, 2-bromolysergic acid diethylamide anatagonized responses to mescaline and LSD on sheep umbilical arteries and therefore... aha ! thanks for clearing this up

 

[Pariah]

:lol:

Thought that might help, any time you want something clarified, just let me know and I'll dig up a Ulysses quote!


hehe

 

[Pariah]

Speaking seriously though, all the abstract is saying is that psychedelics constrict blood vessels (espescially LSD) but that the effects can be countered with cinanserin and / or 2-bromolysergic acid diethylamide.

The experiment only uses umbilical tissue, but has the same effect to varying degrees throughout the body - vasoconstriction is brought about by activity on seratonin receptors.

 

[ararat]

you arend dead yet!

no not at all. in fact, I survived something other people didn't, and I'm very grateful for that.



thanks for the information pariah

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I've read the same quite often, but I don't know what isolated vascular beds are, looking for translations/explanation hasn't shed any light on the term.

I initially found the Dutch translation of that text, only found the English version after I searched for it. The Dutch translation said "vascular blood vessals below the skin ("Deze omvatten oxytocinische werking, de constrictie van vasculaire bloedvaten onder de huid. In dieren veroorzaakt LSD een verlaging van de bloeddruk."). I do not know on what basis they translated it that way.

 

[ararat]

I'm very sorry for the late reply, I had much things to do these days.

so, I went to that doctor in my area I talked about. I asked him to explain this stuff again to me. he told me all kinds of things, about radiation, the dose of radiation and so on. he said that the blood vessels are harmed in a way that they loose their flexibility, they harden. I asked about gingko, and he said that it won't help anything, why, I don't know.
I asked him about the cigarettes. if I smoke a pack a day, I will get problems in 5 to 10 years. this wouldn't speak against taking psychedelics once in a few months, or smoking cannabis once in a week. but what's still strange to me is that I get this prickly feeling in my little and ring finger when tripping. I'm not sure what to think about this. also since I've been smoking more cannabis I have the feeling as if some parts of my body fall asleep more easily.
I also visited the doctor in zurich on the 12th of january. he said pretty much the same stuff about the bloodvessel thing. the doctors don't seem to be very experienced with that kind of stuff, mostly because there are hardly any people who receive that kind of treatment, the kind of tumor I had is very rare, I think they said that they only have ~300 documented cases. he found out that one screw in this construction at my spine is broken. he said it's no problem, for what reason however. maybe this is connected with the thing that my limbs seem to fall asleep more easily.

nun steh ich da ich armer tor
und bin klug als wie zuvor.


love and light, greetings from india

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

That sounds good! Though I agree it won't soften the tissue in the blood vessals, Ginkgo is still a great supplement for circulation, especially the fingertips.

Regarding the 'permission' to trip every now and then: hurray!!!

:wink:

 

[GOD]

Gutebesserung ,

Ginko will do you good and ginseng might to .

The tingeling in you extremitys might come from the broken screw pressing sometimes on a nerve . I was paralised from the waste down and now i cant sit still or i can get that sensation in different parts of my body .

 

[restin]

schön von dir zu hören, viel Spass in Indien.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Are you really in India?
Have a great time!

 

[ararat]

hehe thanks guys.

I was paralised from the waste down and now i cant sit still or i can get that sensation in different parts of my body .

really? may I ask why?

Are you really in India?
Have a great time!

hehe, yes I am. I even once told you in a pm
thank you!

^good place to get stoned. :mrgreen:

 

[GOD]

Another PM gone missing ?

I had renal failure , congestion of the heart and lungs and one and a half colapsed lungs . Plus hypothermia and hypotension . My heart beat was only measurable with an EKG and VERY weak .

What part of india ?

 

[restin]

"I had renal failure , congestion of the heart and lungs and one and a half colapsed lungs . Plus hypothermia and hypotension . My heart beat was only measurable with an EKG and VERY weak . "