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Seems like this was it.

  • Auteur de la discussion Auteur de la discussion ararat
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ararat

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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8/6/06
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it seems that I can't take psychedelics anymore (or more exactly: shouldn't). I need to get this off my chest.

I have written about it sometimes anyway, I had a tumor 2 years ago or so in the upper part of my spine, near the spinal cord. it was removed with one part of the spine being replaced with titanium. everything went fine, but to ensure that the tumor won't come again, I underwent a proton-radiation therapy in boston.
this therapy somehow harms the cells in this area, so that they won't grow again, at least that's how I understood it. according to the doctor there is a 90% chance that the tumor won't grow again. which is good news.

in one of the consultations, the doctor told me not to smoke cigarettes anymore, because some of his patients did and got paralyzed. fine. I can live without cigarettes, but then I asked him about weed. he rolled his eyes and told me not to take any drug like weed, cocaine, psilo... uuuuhh magic mushrooms, amphetamines etc.
of course it made me skeptical that he put all drugs in one drawer. and alcohol? alcohol is ok.
I asked about the reason behind this, and he explained that the therapy harms the tiniest of the blood vessels, the capillaries, which are here to bring oxygen and other stuff to the cells. and many drugs, such as cocaine or amphetamines constrict the blood vessels. thus, the cells don't get oxygen and whatever they need and die.
in my case the blood vessels are needed for the spinal cord. this would mean, if I started smoking cigs or taking speed, I will be in danger of getting paralyzed.

I then started researching the internet about the effects of thc on blood vessels. I couldn't really find much information, just that thc seems to be beneficial if you have atherosclerosis, or that you can prevent it, whatever. also, I found out that it dilates the blood vessels in the eye (the reason for the red eyes). I tried to find out the effects of speed and nicotine on blood vessels and found tons of information.
this made me even more skeptical and I figuered that it should be ok if I use it with the vaporiser (a friend of mine happens to have a volcano, hardly using it). so I inhaled some weed every now and then. sometimes I used a normal pipe too, a volcano isn't something to carry around, after all.

after some time I noticed that my legs get a bit weak when I had used some weed. one or two times I couldn't even really dance (at a goa party, ate some cookies). as for riding my bike, everything was normal, I could go as fast as I wanted and rode up steep roads with no problems.
also I got really cold hands and feet sometimes. also I had the feeling that my extremities would fall asleep more easily, but that might just have been selective perception. (I stopped using weed 4 weeks ago. it hurt, but I can live without it)


in the meantime I used lsd (once, at the boom, no problems.). before I put the blotter on my tongue, I asked the erowid people if they know about that kind of problem, and the guy told me that lsd increases blood flow to the brain. so he saw no problem. I had one of my funniest trips so far.
then I took mushrooms, at first one or two light doses, no problems, just a lot of fun, interesting thoughts and ideas.
two weeks later I ingested 5 grams. had a strange trip. at the peak I sometimes blacked out, I interpreted this as memory loss or something. I'm still not sure, because after some time I started remembering some stuff.

one or two weeks ago, I tripped again. I used 3 grams. I got extremely tired and my body felt weak, especially my legs. after the trip, my spine hurt quite much, and the day after my right sole of foot prickled.

this made me research about mushrooms. after some time I found out that they have vasoconstrictive attributes, such as lsd, lsa, and assumably mescaline.
some websites stated that they are vasoconstrictive in uterine, placental, and umbilical blood vessels, which wouldn't be a problem for me.
but how can I know if it is any different with other blood vessels? maybe there would be more information if these substances wouldn't be illegal, but well, things went differently.

I'm not sure what to think about this. I have a consultation with the doctor who performed the surgery on me (not the radiation therapy) in january. I'm going to ask him about all this, I think he isn't as ignorant towards drugs as the american one.
I'm going to stay away from taking any of those drugs in the meantime. I fear I will have to stay away from any interesting drug for ever, I don't want to risk getting paralyzed or numb.

I know it doesn't really make sense and isn’t beneficial to ask the “why me
 
Wow that sounds as a terrible story.

misery a dit:
I'm going to stay away from taking any of those drugs in the meantime. I fear I will have to stay away from any interesting drug for ever, I don't want to risk getting paralyzed or numb.

I think quiting for a while would not be a bad plan, better be safe then sorry, right?. And who knows, maybe everything is not that worse as you think it is. I can imagine that you are worried, but wait and talk to the Doctor in January.
 
:? I really hope good for you with the Doctor. Good luck. The only think that can compensate the experience is probably intense meditations...Very sorry for you, I dunno how I would feel in your shoes.
 
:heart:

I think that all psychoactives affect bloodvessels up to a certain degree, coffee narrows them, nicotine and alcohol as well, THC expands them strongly. Psychedelics might affect them as well, very minimal but still.

Hope it turns out into a happy end. A hug for now. Long-distance running or cycling is a drug as well. I have achieved euphoric and fresh sedated states through it.
 
Get well soon .

A pause is always a good thing , enjoy it .

I cant see or rthink of any reason why you shouldnt take drugs . I want hard evidence . Before that i tend to think its typical doctors paranoia . So get real , competent advice........ with facts and sources so we can check it out please .......... before you sentance yourself to abstinence .
 
thanks guys.

:heart:


hard facts, good idea. I really look forward to that consultation.
 
The effects from the weed and the shrooms could be psychosomatic, but get a second opinion at least. Enjoy sobriety and keep the psychonaut-mindset for life in general.
 
I wouldn't be worried about taking (moderate doses of) psilocybine, mescaline or LSD if I were you. Are you aware of all the different herbs and compounds that are beneficial for the capillaries? Like Ginkgo, OPC, etc.
 
^I would be
 
he can risk paralyzation.
better safe then sorry. get as many professional advices as you can, i would say.

good luck with you
 
I want hard evidence .
it's hard to find. While cannabis increases the heart rate (=makes blood faster) I read on the internet that it makes blood slower (at least in the brain)
-> clear paradoxon, own experience vs. thirdhand info
-> conclusion: wrong info on the net.

Difficult thing.
 
wow, that truelly does suck. better safe than sorry though

Ginkgo biloba is excellent at increasing blood flow through capillaries. its not expensive either. you should be taking it every day

all the best
 
I see that there are a lot of happy and smart people around who do not use any psychedelics, but I always enjoyed the trips (or better: the time after the trips) very much and learned so much about myself. and now I suddenly can't do this anymore. argh.

Maybe this event is the time you will learn the most about yourself!

I hope everything works out for you. I am too in a rough situation, but not as rough as that. I think I have something wrong with me but I'm not to sure. I had to pretty well quite weed as anytime I smoke my heart rate increases and my breathing becomes short. It was a sad good bye to Mary Jane!

peace & love
 
Not sure about THC, but the doctor is definitely right about the rest - the pupil dilation is caused by vasoconstrictors (including all psychedelics I can think of) - sounds strange, but if I remember correctly the pupil dilation is actually caused by a muscle *contraction* (sounds counterintuitive I know).

Just a suggestion: ask the doctor if vaso*dilators* are a good idea or not, I don't know either way myself, may just be best to leave your body to do its own thing where substances are concerned... easier said than done perhaps...

Anyway I hope things work out.
 
Wikipedia a dit:
Sympathetic stimulation of ?1 adrenergic receptors causes the contraction of the radial muscle, and subsequent dilation of the pupil
 
misery a dit:
in one of the consultations, the doctor told me not to smoke cigarettes anymore, because some of his patients did and got paralyzed. fine. I can live without cigarettes, but then I asked him about weed. he rolled his eyes and told me not to take any drug like weed, cocaine, psilo... uuuuhh magic mushrooms, amphetamines etc.
of course it made me skeptical that he put all drugs in one drawer. and alcohol? alcohol is ok.
The reason why I said I would personally continue using psychedelics, is that in misery's retelling of the story, the doctor never brought up psychedelics, he just mentioned an extremely potent vasoconstrictor (nicotene) that's inhaled along with millions of toxins that directly damage your capillaries and what not. When he mentions the danger of tobacco, no need to ask him about drugs he doesn't know about. He knows about alcohol, and yes, alcohol is ok here. I'd say one glass of red wine a day would be an excellent replacement of an evening joint.

To be on the safe side, be careful with all other vasoconstrictors like cafeine, but don't be too worried about it either. Just don't smoke cigs, excellent advise. Yes, psychedelics influence the circulation, but not that much (depending on the substance of course). Moreover, you're not constricting your blood vessals on a daily or hourly basis, as happens with cigarettes.

And like I and doug mentioned, you can do lots of things to maintain the health of your capillaries. Don't compare your situation with somebody who got paralysed, we all know smoking isn't just deadly, it also ruins your blood vessals and health in general while you're living. If misery simply abstains from tobacco, excessive amounts of cafeine, amphetamines and the like, I'm sure he'll be fine. I may not be a doctor, but I am a certified pharmacist, with a training in orthomolecular therapy. If I were in misery's shoes, I'd simply become a health freak and continue doing psychedelics. But it's up to him of course.
 
Ginseng on a daily basis may be a good idea. as an adaptogen it can stabilise blood flow among other things. it has to be taken regularly to work though.
 
Meduzz a dit:
I wouldn't do LSD either. Ergot poisoning works by constricting blood vessels.
But LSD isn't ergot.
 
From: An Introduction to Pharmacology 3rd edition, JJ Lewis, 1964 (p 385)

Peripheral Actions
These include an oxytocic action and constriction of the blood vessels of isolated vascular beds. In intact animals LSD causes a fall in blood pressure, but its adrenergic blocking potency is low.

LSD causes mydriasis in man and other species. It also causes hyperglycaemia and mydriasis, has a hyperthermic action and causes piloerection. These effects are sympathetic in nature and are abolished by ganglion blocking or adrenergic blocking agents. Parasympathetic effects include salivation, lachyrmation, vomiting, hypotension, and brachycardia. Low doses stimulate respiration but larger doses depress it.

(nb: mydriasis = pupillary dilation)

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_faq.shtml#pharmacology
 
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