schitzopherina,COMT and cannabis

[mrvitorsky]

mysticwarrior I can tell you allot of people who are schizophrenic live in constant fear of hurting their friends/families their friends/families hurting them, hear voices thats say very displeasing things, like, "its fake they're hurting you hes a robot its fake". Finding codes from the mafioso ran by ure x wife. It hurts their family members as well getting a plate thrown at you as a wake up cool then told to get out of the house now or im gonna kill you before you get your shoes on is displeasing. I guess not all schizo experiences are like this, but this is my experience with one who has been off his meds, not a enlightened happy dumbsaint.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I am not diagnosed with anything, and I won't ever be.

But here, I'll explain the 5 minutes of my first weed smoke in a long time (while completely sober from everything else).

Intake: Instant feeling of burning, of course, but the burning lasts longer than I remember. Then I get that fucking feeling. My Cingulate Gyrus is signaling the pit of my stomach "Something is wrong, something is wrong something is wrong... " etc. I take a look back. I stand up. FUCK I'M GOING TO GO CRAZY. FUCK.

I start losing grips with what I'm seeing. The river is no longer there, my friend isn't there anymore. I'm not there. It is my mind, somewhere else besides my body, but its view is stuck in there. Its like I'm flying around in space, lost but I'm still viewing my body. "I CANT HANDLE TH... its only a drug"

Oh yeah, lets catch some fish.

Look at this psychologically, like most of you do, and you see this is the "Bad side of you! this is a part of you you are seeing that you don't like"

Look at this neurologically, and WHY did my cingulate gyrus instantly signal, without any preminition of fear or anything to go into "Something is wrong, something is wrong"

I never had that feeling before my first smoking pot (back when I used daily) then I had my mushroom trip and it started to come into sober life. The thing is now it happens sometimes, and goes away most often then not, its been a great psychadelic journey of self-medication I tell you. But the thing is I completely believe that weed offset it. This isn't schizophrenia, I know that and I do not understand schizophrenia. I can't understand how one could "see" something, and then believe it too. IT doesn't make sense to me. In my darkest parts, I was definitely going through psychosis though. People were animals, friends were empty, nothing was as it seemed a year ago, nothing. It was as if I had been transplanted on another planet where people had sucked the "Soul" out of every person. That isn't easy to cope with for a year.

You guys can look at it psychologically, but I believe mine is much more heavy neurologically. There is definitely something going on with my panic button.
K I lost my train of thought, take it as it is.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I recognize those feelings of "something's wrong" right after smoking pot, but one should not confuse or unnecessarily relate acute effects of a drug with permanent effects. For example, psychedelics like mescaline and LSD were initially seen as psychotomimetic, because the acute effects resemble those of certain psychoses. As the psychedelic researchers soon found out, this "psychotic" state could have significant healing effects. It's known that smoked or injected DMT makes the body release a burst of adrenaline, but that doesn't mean smoking DMT produces stress and stomach ulcers. Likewise the acute effects of cannabis, often described as "paranoia", do not say anything about their lasting effects.

You guys can look at it psychologically, but I believe mine is much more heavy neurologically.

I'm trying to see things from several perspectives at the same time. Psychological traumas can offset neurological functions, and toxic disturbance of the nervous system can offset psychological dysfunction. In most cases, however, it's physical traumas (particularly that of the birth process) that lead to emotional problems, which in turn alter neurology, giving rise to observable symptoms and disorders, which are sometimes triggered by recreational drug use.

 

[mrvitorsky]

Many people have the capacity to become raving lunatics(trippy how the word contains moon). Allot of the time It just doesnt happen. Schizophernia from what ive seen and experienced kinda gets triggered by overthinking and analyzing in a nonsensical manner, psychological trauma can cause this, coke can. Luckily I have only done a few 2-3 day binges cause if i got truly hooked id be gone. I have experienced some terrible shit in my child hood as well and it mixes in with my well... thoughts and visions(?is that how i should put it).

When I do coke I am nuts, I am not sane, I become crazy and believe all the crazy things and start talking nonsensically, see shit, it overlast the effects of coke aswell(like a week) and it is nothing like acid trips which i find quite enjoyable, even if i should probably stay away, my mind is very fragile. I am currently able to barely shrug this off but i do have some control.

My dad was consider mildly schizotypal personality type, then he abused lots of meth mixed with coke, and psychedelics, he lost it he became violent insane and terrified, he became gone and he is now gone with out any drug abuse just the random urges to stop taking his meds and even on his meds hes just controlling himself he still thinks crazy shit and will say crazy shit, randomly out of nowhere(well I triggered it with a "codeword" i believe he thinks) look at me with utter disgust like I am a robot like he has said many times before.

I have not been diagnosed, I dont talk to psychiatrist(been to them but just sat and nodded my head and said yes and no trying to make hime think i was normal but with general teenage agnst) so it wouldnt be possible, I figure if its truly becoming a problem, some one else will report me to the mental health authority's. For all I know and most likely i have something different wrong with me if not nothing at all other than psychological.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Mrvitorsky, I'm sorry to hear all that. My guess is your birth was rough as well?

I have experienced some terrible shit in my child hood as well and it mixes in with my well... thoughts and visions

Yes, that's a classical example of COEX systems in action ("systems of COndensed EXperience"). Traumatic experiences in infancy and childhood are experientially linked to the birth trauma and other types of misery before birth or even conception, and these systems shape the way we later think, feel, act, have sex, commit suicide, abuse drugs, suffer from new traumas etc. For more information, read Stan Grof's "LSD Psychotherapy" or "Psychology of the Future".

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Yesterday evening I was reading the following (Psychology of the Future, page 135):

"At the time when I first suggested that much of psychotic symptomatology could be understood in terms of perinatal dynamics (Realms of the Human Unconscious: Observations from LSD Research, Grof 1975), I was not able to find any clinical studies supporting this hypothesis, or even exploring this possibility. It was astonishing how little attention researchers had given to possible relationships between psychoses and the trauma of birth. Today, a quarter of a century later, there exists ample clinical evidence that the trauma of birth plays an important role in the genesis of psychoses.

As a matter of fact, viral infections during mother's pregnancy and obstretric complications during birth, including long labors and oxygen deprivation, are among the few consistently reported risk factors for schizophrenia (Wright et al. 1997, Verdoux and Murray 1998, Kane 1999, Dalman et al. 1999, Warner 1999). Because of the strong influence of biological thinking in psychiatry, the interpretations of these data tend to favor the assumption that birth had caused some subtle brain damage undetectable by current diagnostic methods. Mainstream theoreticians and clinicians fail to acknowledge the paramount role of birth as a psychotrauma."

 

[Didjeridon't]

mysticwarrior I can tell you allot of people who are schizophrenic live in constant fear of hurting their friends/families their friends/families hurting them, hear voices thats say very displeasing things, like, "its fake they're hurting you hes a robot its fake". Finding codes from the mafioso ran by ure x wife. It hurts their family members as well getting a plate thrown at you as a wake up cool then told to get out of the house now or im gonna kill you before you get your shoes on is displeasing. I guess not all schizo experiences are like this, but this is my experience with one who has been off his meds, not a enlightened happy dumbsaint.

I'd have to agree. Schizophrenic patients often feel as though they are hurting themselves or others, or others hurting them. It's a terrible feeling. Schizophrenics feel guilty for things they have never done. Patients feel anxiety, like you're waiting for something that is never going to happen. You're just waiting to die really. Patients are depressed. They feel extremely apathetic, making it hard to function and do normal daily routines, like shower or brush your teeth. Along with apathy, a lot of hallucinations hinder functionality. Hearing other peoples voices tell you "You're a piece of shit. You should kill yourself. She hates you. Everyone hates you. You should hate yourself. You're a fucking disgrace. You're a fuck up," as well as people on the radio and television telling you you're useless, and the newspaper printing ads about the government starting a new program to track people with whatever certain special "power" you may have, really fucks up a day in the life of a schizophrenic. Thats why meds are prescribed, to help block out those things, and to help overcome the defeat. Schizophrenia is nothing more than a disease, it's nothing abnormal. Just my two cents worth of experience.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I'd have to agree. Schizophrenic patients often feel as though they are hurting themselves or others, or others hurting them. It's a terrible feeling. Schizophrenics feel guilty for things they have never done. Patients feel anxiety, like you're waiting for something that is never going to happen. You're just waiting to die really. Patients are depressed. They feel extremely apathetic

OK, that's a perfect description. Compare your description with this:

"When the termination period of an LSD session is governed by Basic Perinatal Matrix II [memories of the onset of contractions in the womb, with the cervix still being closed] and the subject stabilizes under its influence, the post-session interval is characterized by deep depression. Under these circumstances, individuals are vexed by various highly unpleasant feelings, thoughts, and physical sensations. They have access only to unpleasant memories and cannot see any positive elements in their entire life history. Guilt, inferiority, and shame seem to dominate their thinking about the past. Their present life appears unbearable and fraught with problems that have no solution; they do not have any perspective on anything, and the future looks equally hopeless. Life is devoid of any meaning, and there is an absolute inability to enjoy anything. The world is perceived as threatening, ominous, oppressive and without colors. Suicidal ideation is not uncommon in this situation; it typically has the form of a wish to fall asleep or be unconscious, forget everything, and never wake up again."

I posted that citation from Stanislav Grof's "LSD Psychotherapy" a couple of weeks ago in this thread.

You can read more about the second perinatal matrix here:

http://www.thespiritwiki.com/index.php/Basic_Perinatal_Matrix_II

Basic Perinatal Matrix II refers to the stage of perinatal experience that occurs immediately upon initiation of the birth process. During this period the highly sensitive fetus cannot avoid a negative experience. The fetus is highly sensitive to the chemical and electrical activities of the mother's body through the delivery process. This, coupled with the experience of being squeezed tightly through a birth canal in the next perinatal matrix III, will leave a negative imprint no matter how successful and unproblematic the delivery. For this reason, the experience of perinatal matrix IV is critical to achieving an acceptable resolution to the birth experience.

...

Negative Condensed Experience Systems (COEX) that emerge around Perinatal Matrix II will involve the organism in an antagonistic and/or victim like relationship to the surrounding world. Having experienced an isolated and hostile delivery process, the Physical Unit will be primed for aggressive, submissive, helpless, and disconnected behavioral patterns. Depression at having been delivered cold and alone into a hostile world, anger and misogyny at the instigators (typically the mother, females, authority if in the presence of doctors). Passing into neuroticism we may find inferiority complexes, depression, and a predisposition to addictive behaviour (Grof, 1976). Psychotic sequelea, which may emerge if the individual has experienced significant additional trauma during the critical childhood years and/or dogmatic indoctrination into fear based religious systems, will often include delusions of persecution, paranoid thought patterns, visions of demons and hell, and extreme existential angst which may lead to suicidal ideation (i.e. leaving a hostile and unloving world).

It is important to note that a negative experience during the birth process need not lead to the development of a permanent negative COEX root. Assuming the child is received properly in the delivery room, and assuming the child is brought home to a warm, loving, safe, and connected environment in a loving, war, safe and connected society, the COEX trauma inevitably experienced during delivery process will be dissipated and replaced with positive COEX systems. Under current global conditions however, the dissipation of negative COEX systems never occurs leaving all individuals with negative COEX residuals of varying strength that may easily develop into the foundations of disconnection, neurosis, or psychosis and which may (under the current spiritually naive conditions on this planet) take decades for the individual to clear on their own (if they clear at all). Significant improvement in parental, educational, social, political, and economic conditions, and a rapid increase in the sophistication with which psychological professionals deal with their clients, will be required to properly address this issue.

More here: http://www.thespiritwiki.com/index.php/Perinatal_Matrices

 

[Didjeridon't]

It's a horrible disease. It'll ruin you're life man, especially for the lucky few who understand they suffer from it.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

What do you mean with 'disease'?

Do you understand why I posted these citations? Are you familiar with Stan Grof's work?

 

[Didjeridon't]

What do you mean with 'disease'?

Do you understand why I posted these citations? Are you familiar with Stan Grof's work?

I'm not too familiar with Stan Grof, I was merely stating that schizophrenia and it's symptoms are very difficult, no matter what the onset. I was sympathizing with other patients. I apologize.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Yes, it's an extremely uncomfortable condition. I was wondering though what makes you think it's a disease. Because diseases typically have to do with the body, whereas schizophrenia has to do with consciousness.

It's true that in some cases temporary use of suppressive medication may be indicated, but in most cases the solution is to be found in the realm of consciousness, i.e. experiential therapy with (or without) psychedelics.

 

[Didjeridon't]

The way it was explained to me was that I had a form of a "disease" dealing with bacteria (or some such) in the brain, hindering various synapses from firing in synchronization, producing delusional thoughts. They called it Undifferentiated Schizophrenia with paranoid delusion. This of course was some time after the original diagnosis, but the way I understood it was the doctor said it is a disease. I may be entirely mistaken on this, as this was some time ago, and I may have misunderstood what he was saying to me. Is it not true though that schizophrenia is a disease?

 

[Sticki]

I look at the terms like,

Bodily Disease - If it has a physical presence within the body.

Mental Condition - If its in the non-physical mind or psyche.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

No, so far no physical causes of schizophrenia have been found, and certainly bacteria are not involved. Hence there is also no physical cure for this condition, only suppressive medication. Healing cannot be achieved by suppression, only by conscious re-experiencing what went wrong in the past (usually a failed integration and resolution of the birth-trauma).

Psychedelics ingested under the guidance of a trained psychotherapist, at the proper dosage, and with the proper preparation, can help to set things straight, to resolve things on the level of consciousness (not in the brain!). Admittedly schizophrenia is a very difficult condition to treat, even within the context of LSD psychotherapy focused on reliving and reintegrating the birth trauma, but it is the way to go.

Psychedelics ingested without proper guidance and with the wrong set & setting can of course be disastrous.

 

[Didjeridon't]

Thats actually very interesting, rather eye opening. Thank you for explaining it to me a little more clearly! I guess you really do learn something new each day!

 

[mysticwarrior]

Admittedly schizophrenia is a very difficult condition to treat, even within the context of LSD psychotherapy focused on reliving and reintegrating the birth trauma, but it is the way to go.

That sounds interesting, now i am sure that i want to know more about stanislav Grof's work.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Schizophrenia is a disease, but the definition of my disease my vary from yours. It is not caused from birth, or genetics. My honest belief is that your mind through some very odd circumstances starts to do one of two things:

1. You become obsessed with one idea, this is very dangerous, as the more neurons get connected, the more neurons will follow. Thus creating a whole map connected to this one idea. This is a HORRIBLE thing if the idea is negative. I for one think this is what happened to me. To destroy connections in the brain, or alter their 'feeling' isn't easy and I continue to heal through every way I can see fit. Its actually very amazing how far I've come.

2. Real schizophrenia: I don't understand exactly... (well nobody does) but I have a feeling that your "talking" thoughts in some area of the brain get seperated from other parts of the brain, and only go directly to the experience part, rather than the cortex... You'll probably understand but I can''t explain it well:

You think "I bet he says right now 'God that kids ugly'" a normal person would hear this iin his head, as his own voice, and realize he himself, has thought this. However a schizophrenic gets "God he's ugly" and instead of the brain consulting with its self, and following a normal path, it goes straight from the "innner voice" to the experience - consciousness. Bypassing the "I am consciously saying this"

I have read alot of about what schizophrenics hear, and it seems like its a combination of these two things: Extreme negative thoughts that one gets obsessed with, as well as a seperation from consciousness and experience.

I am dieing a little inside as I write this, napthaa is in the air and its fucking driving me psychotic!

By the way: "Lunatic" comes from an ancient belief that the full moon brought insanity to some people. hence Luna .

 

[mrvitorsky]

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/arc ... 04735.html
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol9no11/03-0143.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii

They dont know what causes schizophrenia, I believe at the moment they just look at It as a collection of symptoms with many causes. This ^ a bacteria, Is a good candidate for a possible cause of schizophrenia that the medical community is looking into.

 

[viljo]

you guys will believe any crap you hear.
were is the proof that lsd can be a more affective treatment than todays medication.
its total rubbish!
most schitzopherics had a very healthy perspective on life before they become ill and do not to deal with personal issues.
they need relief from endless thinking which is caused by an unknown physical condition that affects the way our mind behaves.
if therapy was affective as medication they would have realized this and be implementing it. if years of therapy any cutting it then the addition of lsd is a bad idea.
its like you fail to understand you enjoy lsd because you have a healthy mind that works in the right manner, there minds do not so I reckon lsd will only worsen there condition.
his gotten a lot of bad reviews this guy and is considered finished by some.
even if you could heal the mind to think right it would only be temporarily because its a deteriorating condition so the whole lets just re-adjust there thinking is a fools dream.