Rye / barley as substrate in PF tek
- Auteur de la discussion mutant
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I would think if something would produce better results, than that would be the main substrate people use. 
GOD
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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You can grow mushrooms on rye and barley but you dont have to use vermiculite mixed in and there would be no advantages in doing it like that anyway . Less contaminants grow on rice than on rye and barley . Thats why sensible people use rice .
BlimeyGrimey
Glandeuse Pinéale
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Rye flour is a great substitute. Rye is far more nutritious than rice.
The reason rice is used in the PF cake because it is widely available. Any grocery store will carry brown rice ( or atleast white). The PF tek was made to be simple and allow the "average" person to grow Psilocybe cubensis. It is by no means the "right" way or the best way to grow anything.
The PF tek is a good way to learn and start the hobby of growing mushrooms but thats about all it is. Anyone who grows long enough will eventually find that using grains and spawning to stuff such as manure/zoodoo will work alot better than the PF tek.
God said, "You can grow mushrooms on rye and barley but you dont have to use vermiculite mixed in and there would be no advantages in doing it like that anyway ."
There are many advantages to using grains:
1. Grains have far more "food" in them than rice flour and vermiculite. (Verm has NO nutrients it just holds water)
2. Grains can be shaken every few days during colonization. This means that the grains that are colonized will be mixed throughout the grain making MANY points of growth. A quart sized jar of grain which is filled 3/4 full will be colonized in this manner in under 10 days. Remember this is ALOT more mass than a 1/2 pint pf jar which is 75% vermiculite (no nutrients) and it colonizes a bit faster.
3. Grains can be used to innoculate other jars of grains. 1 colonized jar can be used to start 10-20 more jars. Once you put some grain into another jar and shake you are already at the halfway point since you have many points of growth throughout the jar.
4. Grains can be spawned to other things such as woodchips or manure. These will also colonize fast because the grain is spread out through the manure/woodchips.
5. Grain teks can be used on a variety of species (active and non-actives) while the PF cake will only work for Psilocybe cubensis and it does poorly at that.
To use grains you need:
1. A pressure cooker ( any one will do , I use a 6qt Presto pressure cooker that costs $30)
2. A glovebox or still-air box (easy to make, get a big clear plastic container and cut 2 small arm holes in it. you now have a still-air box. attach some rubber dish gloves and its now a glovebox.
3. Practice of sterile techniques. Means wash you hands and forearms before starting work. Spraying some Oust or Lysol Neutra-Air in the area before working. Flame sterilizing any needles or scalpels that will be used. Cleaning out the glovebox with lysol before putting anything inside and working in a relatively clean room with no air drafts.
God,
I'd like to hear your thoughts on agar.
The reason rice is used in the PF cake because it is widely available. Any grocery store will carry brown rice ( or atleast white). The PF tek was made to be simple and allow the "average" person to grow Psilocybe cubensis. It is by no means the "right" way or the best way to grow anything.
The PF tek is a good way to learn and start the hobby of growing mushrooms but thats about all it is. Anyone who grows long enough will eventually find that using grains and spawning to stuff such as manure/zoodoo will work alot better than the PF tek.
God said, "You can grow mushrooms on rye and barley but you dont have to use vermiculite mixed in and there would be no advantages in doing it like that anyway ."
There are many advantages to using grains:
1. Grains have far more "food" in them than rice flour and vermiculite. (Verm has NO nutrients it just holds water)
2. Grains can be shaken every few days during colonization. This means that the grains that are colonized will be mixed throughout the grain making MANY points of growth. A quart sized jar of grain which is filled 3/4 full will be colonized in this manner in under 10 days. Remember this is ALOT more mass than a 1/2 pint pf jar which is 75% vermiculite (no nutrients) and it colonizes a bit faster.
3. Grains can be used to innoculate other jars of grains. 1 colonized jar can be used to start 10-20 more jars. Once you put some grain into another jar and shake you are already at the halfway point since you have many points of growth throughout the jar.
4. Grains can be spawned to other things such as woodchips or manure. These will also colonize fast because the grain is spread out through the manure/woodchips.
5. Grain teks can be used on a variety of species (active and non-actives) while the PF cake will only work for Psilocybe cubensis and it does poorly at that.
To use grains you need:
1. A pressure cooker ( any one will do , I use a 6qt Presto pressure cooker that costs $30)
2. A glovebox or still-air box (easy to make, get a big clear plastic container and cut 2 small arm holes in it. you now have a still-air box. attach some rubber dish gloves and its now a glovebox.
3. Practice of sterile techniques. Means wash you hands and forearms before starting work. Spraying some Oust or Lysol Neutra-Air in the area before working. Flame sterilizing any needles or scalpels that will be used. Cleaning out the glovebox with lysol before putting anything inside and working in a relatively clean room with no air drafts.
God,
I'd like to hear your thoughts on agar.
mutant
Elfe Mécanique
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Shit, OK here the problem
it has been a very hot summer, as always for that matter.. my friend did not see it coming , and had no airconditioning in the room.. so problem has been propably the heat...
he has mycelium in 3 or 4 glasses, more so in 2 of them, but they're growing sooooooooooooo slowly, if any.... what should he do??? the colonisation is far from complete, still the mycelium seems alive....
any tips??
it has been a very hot summer, as always for that matter.. my friend did not see it coming , and had no airconditioning in the room.. so problem has been propably the heat...
he has mycelium in 3 or 4 glasses, more so in 2 of them, but they're growing sooooooooooooo slowly, if any.... what should he do??? the colonisation is far from complete, still the mycelium seems alive....
any tips??
GOD
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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Rice is used in the PF Tek because it is less suceptable to contamination than other grains .
""You can grow mushrooms on rye and barley but you dont have to use vermiculite mixed in and there would be no advantages in doing it like that anyway ."
= There would be no advantage of mixing vermiculite into your grains .
Agar , shit and grain transfers are things for professionals not beginners .
Mutant , what temperature are your jars ?
""You can grow mushrooms on rye and barley but you dont have to use vermiculite mixed in and there would be no advantages in doing it like that anyway ."
= There would be no advantage of mixing vermiculite into your grains .
Agar , shit and grain transfers are things for professionals not beginners .
Mutant , what temperature are your jars ?
, the upper limit , easily exceeding it some times...
mutant
Elfe Mécanique
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no its not the light, it hardly gets any... onn;y when I check them...
the mycelium is not very fluffy. more like the main web/rooting... in only a few spots is very dense and fluffy, so that you cannot see the sustrate. the rest of it is rather weak...
the mycelium is not very fluffy. more like the main web/rooting... in only a few spots is very dense and fluffy, so that you cannot see the sustrate. the rest of it is rather weak...
BlimeyGrimey
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The inside of a jar is always warmer than the air outside of it. Mycelium produces heat while it grows.
Mycelial death begins at 106f. The higher the temp after 106f increases and the longer its hot will kill more mycelium.
Thermal stress starts at about 90f. When stressed enough the mycelium may "stall" or stop growing.
The optimal temp for colonization of cubensis is 76f. Since the inside of the jar is hotter than the air outside you want you air temps to be 70f-75f to ensure the inside jar temps don't exceed 85f.
Mycelial death begins at 106f. The higher the temp after 106f increases and the longer its hot will kill more mycelium.
Thermal stress starts at about 90f. When stressed enough the mycelium may "stall" or stop growing.
The optimal temp for colonization of cubensis is 76f. Since the inside of the jar is hotter than the air outside you want you air temps to be 70f-75f to ensure the inside jar temps don't exceed 85f.
mutant
Elfe Mécanique
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Hello again....
now that the weather is not too hot, my friend might give it more attempts - but before that he would like to know if he could do something with the 2 semi-colonised jars in which growth has stopped....
I wonder if after these 2+ months there is still enough moisture in the jars... would it be a good idea to moisten [deep in sterilised water] or should he proceed with casing tek [as 2 jars would not produce too much of material anyway] as some other advice was given to me?
thanks in advance
now that the weather is not too hot, my friend might give it more attempts - but before that he would like to know if he could do something with the 2 semi-colonised jars in which growth has stopped....
I wonder if after these 2+ months there is still enough moisture in the jars... would it be a good idea to moisten [deep in sterilised water] or should he proceed with casing tek [as 2 jars would not produce too much of material anyway] as some other advice was given to me?
is the stall/stopping reversable???
thanks in advance
mutant
Elfe Mécanique
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Fuck he tried, but it's too blurry, it wont help, no good macro shot through the glass... imagine it looks pretty well colonised in some spots [totally white] , not colonised at some others, and a scarce web-like [mother of pearl?] colonisation that stopped too early in others....
GOD
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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Dont know , cant say , maybe one of or a combination of bacteria and/or to wet and/or to cold . The only thing you can do is try to change something/s or throw them away and start again . I would throw them away . Check your method , temperature , humidity next time .
Maybe BlimeyGrimey has some ideas ?
Maybe BlimeyGrimey has some ideas ?
Cannafarmer
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PF-Tek is in my own eyes the next step after growkits.
Vermucilité is a product, that doesn't let infections in that easy.
It's as much infection free. However you still need to take precaution.
It's even good to roll your risecakes in (sterilized) zevermiculité
I have only injected my risecakes yet, and mycilium is starting to spread around.
And there is no infection in any pot taking place. It all looks good to me right now!
As long you work sterile every substarte is good that's suited for mushrooms!
But you need to find out what suits you best.
Right now I have ricecakes
and I already injected a bag with (rogge, don't konw the english word) in case that works too
Growing mushrooms is easier then weed!
Vermucilité is a product, that doesn't let infections in that easy.
It's as much infection free. However you still need to take precaution.
It's even good to roll your risecakes in (sterilized) zevermiculité
I have only injected my risecakes yet, and mycilium is starting to spread around.
And there is no infection in any pot taking place. It all looks good to me right now!
As long you work sterile every substarte is good that's suited for mushrooms!
But you need to find out what suits you best.
Right now I have ricecakes
and I already injected a bag with (rogge, don't konw the english word) in case that works too
Growing mushrooms is easier then weed!
BlimeyGrimey
Glandeuse Pinéale
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- 20/6/08
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I can't be of much help without a picture to look at or more info.
Whenever I have jars that stall its usually do to bacterial contamination. Depending on the type of bacteria sometimes the mycelium won't even try to colonize the infected part.
When using grains a good way to check for bacterial contams is to give the jar a good shake. If the mycelium recovers and continues to grow then chances are it isn't bacteria. Most bacteria contam'ed jars I shake won't recover and the grains start to turn to slime/mush as the bacteria digests the grains.
Whenever I have jars that stall its usually do to bacterial contamination. Depending on the type of bacteria sometimes the mycelium won't even try to colonize the infected part.
When using grains a good way to check for bacterial contams is to give the jar a good shake. If the mycelium recovers and continues to grow then chances are it isn't bacteria. Most bacteria contam'ed jars I shake won't recover and the grains start to turn to slime/mush as the bacteria digests the grains.
