Psychonautica 74 - Stan Grof - psychospiritual death/rebirth

[Caduceus Mercurius]

These are quotes from the "Let it out!" thread:

CM, would it be a lot of work to calculate the constelations for me for a certain day?

It isn't very difficult for me, because I've got a program that does all the calculations. And as far as selecting a good day for a trip, I just look at the most significant and obvious factors, so that too wouldn't take much of my time. Aside from planning trips, I've also scheduled certain exams in my life (I got my drivers license and pharmacy diplomas that way).

this is getting me interested. where do I start?

My main tool is the transit screen in my Vedic astrology program, and there's nothing online that really resembles it. You can check your daily transits (and those of yesterday and tomorrow, as well as some long term influences) by getting an account at Astrodienst (http://www.astro.com). The interpretations are good, but for a novice it's hard to distinguish between important transits and insignificant ones. If you want me to look up the planetary forecast for a particular day, or evening, just send me your time (year, month, day, hour, minute) and place of birth.

Care to share it in simplified language that makes me understand it as a ignorant soul in astrology CM? What does my time of intake meant from an astrological point of view? I'm curious.

In the other thread I mentioned that when you were peaking on 500 ug the Moon was conjunct your natal Venus.

I will try to explain what that means. First I should explain what transits are. You've probably seen that a birth chart is depicted as a circle, with the planets placed in the positions they were at birth. The entire cosmos is divided into 12 sections of 30 degrees each. So a certain planet could be located at 7 degrees Taurus. If that planet is the Moon, we say "natal Moon is located at 7 degrees Taurus".

Now image another circle, around the circular birth chart. This circle doesn't contain the positions of the planets at birth (the natal positions) but as they can be seen today (the transit positions), or any day we wish to study.

In transit astrology we look at how the current positions relate to the natal positions. For example, if today Saturn would be at 7 degrees Taurus, the person of the above example would have "transit Saturn conjunct natal Moon". Or if Saturn would be situated at 7 degrees Scorpio, we would say "transit Saturn is opposite natal Moon."

Aside from the conjunction and opposition, there are also the square (when the two planets are positioned at 90 degrees from eachother), trine (120 degrees) and sextile (60 degrees). These relationships are called "aspects". Some aspects combine compatible elements (fire, earth, water, air), while others combine incompatible elements. Because of this, the conjunction, sextile and trine are considered harmonious aspects, and the opposition and square "hard" aspects. They tend to cause friction, and bring out the negative sides of the planetary archetypes. For example, Jupiter is a gregarious benefic that gives blessings, but when Jupiter makes a square or opposition, it may manifest as overindulgence, pride and so forth.

When the aspect is exactly 90 or 120 degrees, we say "the aspect is exact". When it's 92 degrees, we say "the aspect is exact within 2 degrees of orb". Usually the effects can be experienced while the aspect is within 5 degrees of orb. So the aspects increase in intensity, have their peak (when the aspect is exact) and then lose strength again.

It depends on the transit planet how long this process takes. Saturn is moving very slowly, so Saturn aspects may last several months, while Moon transits last only half a day. For general purposes, the astrologer only looks at the major transits (Saturn, Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto), whereas for planning a marriage, impregnation, inauguration, exam or sacred ceremony he will also look at the transits of Mars, Venus, Mercury, the Sun and even (or especially) the fickle Moon.

The Moon seems to be a luminary, but unlike the Sun it can only reflect. It reflects the light of the Sun, just like our mind only reflects the light of our soul, or the images of the world. That's why in astrology the Moon represents the mind, feelings, emotions etc. The Sun represents the ego or the self, and Mercury speech, writing and the intellect.

During your trip the Moon was first conjunct your natal Venus, and like I said Venus represents love, art and aesthetic experiences in general. Venus (Shukra-acarya) is also considered one of the two gurus in Vedic astrology (the other one being Brihaspati, or Jupiter), and a general benefic (planet that bestows good fortune and wellbeing).

As the Moon moved on that day, it approached your natal Uranus (in your birth chart Venus and Uranus are conjunct within 3 degrees of orb), and thus you experienced the effects of "transit Moon conjunct natal Uranus". Uranus is a planet of sudden, unexpected experiences, changes and intuitions. During a trip this may be experienced as an intense flood of insights and highly "charged" visions. And indeed you did indicate that at a certain point you had to turn off the music because it was getting a bit "too much". Still, I wouldn't discourage anyone from taking a trip during a harmonious Uranus transit, because it can give very significant new insights and breakthroughs. I wouldn't recommend anyone to plan a recreational trip during a disharmonious Uranus transit, because that could result in a bad trip or even accidents.

Saturn represents boundaries, seriousness and old age. A harmonious Saturn transit is good for discipline, but a disharmonious Saturn transit could give rise to gloomy thoughts.

Neptune represents the dissolving of boundaries. A harmonious Neptune transit will grant one access to the transpersonal realms, while a disharmonious transit could give rise to confusion and delusion.

Venus is the planet of love, art and beauty. A harmonious Venus transit will facilitate an aesthetic, sensuous, loving experience, whereas a disharmonious Venus transit may lead to excessive self-indulgence and laziness. Harmonious Venus transits occur around the time we fall in love and enter a beneficial relationship. Ahuayenjnxs had such a transit recently, as did Space a couple of months ago. Throughout the years I've seen hundreds of such examples, in my own life and those of my friends.

Harmonious Mars transits are good for getting things done or engaging in physical exercise. When the passion of Mars is combined with the gentle energy of Venus, there will be sexual desire and/or activity. If it's a disharmonious aspect, it could give rise to selfish and indiscriminate lust. Mars represents the ego (along with the Sun) so when Mars contacts Neptune, or vice versa, ego boundaries are dissolved.

Mercury represents the intellect, speech and writing. Harmonious Mercury transits are good for studying, doing exams, giving lectures, writing articles, communicating, making funny jokes etc. When harmoniously combined with the grave Saturn, it might give a photographic memory or the discipline to study for long periods of time. When the aspect is negative, it will make one narrow-minded and pessimistic.

For religious or mystical experiences the best transits involve Jupiter and Neptune, which will expand consciousness and dissolve the ego respectively.

For a deep "death & rebirth experience" (as discussed by Stan Grof in the podcasts posted in this thread) a harmonious Pluto transit would be very useful.

And does it depend on one's specific zodiac sign whether it is the most educative time to take? Or is it just applying for each one regardless their sign?

Yes, the position of the Sun isn't the most significant factor. In fact it's usually one of the last things I look at. But there are hundreds or thousands of astrological techniques. At a certain point you've got to limit yourself to those that work best for you. For me transit astrology has proven to be the most useful, and least time consuming.

Brugmansia, at this point in time transit Uranus is conjunct your natal Moon. Uranus moves slowly, so this is one of the major transits, which will last a couple of weeks or months. The conjunction is a harmonious aspect, so your mind may be subjected to many new ideas and feelings. You may feel more intuitive than usual, and more excited about things. There may also be unexpected changes related to your home or mother.

You may not feel very excited however, as Saturn entered Leo this morning, and is now opposing your natal Moon as well. This disharmonious aspect of Saturn gives us the impression that some of the changes brought about by Uranus are not to your liking. For about two weeks you may feel kind of sad or depressed, or there may be some problems at home or with your mother. Fortunately around the beginning of October Jupiter will form a trine with your Moon, which will make you feel more enthusiastic and happy again. By that time Saturn will also have moved on (beyond the 5 degrees of orb range).

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

By the way, if astrology is real, then who you are is not only related to your physical body and field of vision, but to all the planets and stars in space. The orbits of the planets are in a sense not different from all the other essential cycles that occur in your physical reality, like your heartbeat, breathing, digestion, sleep etc. As far as the great illusion of material existence is concerned, you and this entire cosmos are one, in a very real way. It's mind boggling, but true.

It also means that our collective mess (pollution, wars etc.) and current level of sophistication (art, spirituality, scientific advancements) were inevitable since the Big Bang, or whatever put all these celestial bodies in their respective orbits. Likewise the birth of Amadeus Mozart, Tim Leary, Aldous Huxley, Adolf Hitler and every other historical person was inevitable...and so were you!

 

[ararat]

By the way, if astrology is real, then who you are is not only related to your physical body and field of vision, but to all the planets and stars in space. The orbits of the planets are in a sense not different from all the other essential cycles that occur in your physical reality, like your heartbeat, breathing, digestion, sleep etc. As far as the great illusion of material existence is concerned, you and this entire cosmos are one, in a very real way. It's mind boggling, but true.

that's the point that made astrology interesting for me. to get a picture of yourself you take a look at the cosmos.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I'd like to know about the 12th of august 2009, about 7 o'clock in the morning. and possibly about tommorow if it's not too much work

thanks a lot!

OK, I'll first list the transits of August 12th.

- transit Mercury trine natal Neptune: good for spiritual or psychedelic thoughts, or for writing poetry, fantasy etc.
- transit Sun opposite natal Mars and square Pluto: passion, conflict, tension or accidents (especially the days prior to the 12th, not so much on the 12th itself)
- transit Venus opposite natal Neptune: love is in the air...

In the early morning transit Moon was conjunct natal Mercury: good for mental activity and communication. The evening of August 11th the Moon was sextile natal Venus, which might confirm that you met someone you liked. On the 12th itself (around noon) the Moon was sextile your natal Jupiter, which again seems to indicate happy feelings.

If you did meet someone, you probably met again around August 19, when Venus was conjunct your natal Moon, and the Sun opposite your natal Venus. Moreover Mars was approaching a trine with natal Venus, indicating you guys got intimate as well. Heh, the same can be said about August 20, when the Moon joined the Sun in its opposition with natal Venus, and the Mars-Venus trine became exact. Also good for artistic activities.

The period around June 25 may have been fortunate as well (both Jupiter and Neptune conjunct your natal Venus). Did you meet someone around that time? If so, some astrologers would say you met your "soul mate".

Regarding tomorrow:

Heh, are you going to meet her tomorrow night (around 21:00)? If not, it would still be a pleasant evening, as both transit Venus and transit Moon oppose your natal Venus. I would not hesitate to trip that evening.

Transit Mars is opposite your natal Neptune. I already described this transit in one of the examples above: it means ego boundaries are dissolved. Good for psychedelic experiences and loving exchanges.

Jupiter is currently conjunct your very powerful ("exalted") Mars in Capricorn. Incidentally you and I have Mars at exactly the same degree of Capricorn. So we're both having this Jupiter-Mars conjunction these days, and it's good for physical health and getting things done. Jupiter will soon move in the direction of Venus again, which will give your love life another boost (January 2010).

 

[ararat]

thanks a lot CM
I wanted to see if the transits would fit for what happened that day.

well, on august 11th I was offered a threesome at the ozora I didn't go with them and kind of regret it... next time I'm smarter that's not the point though..
the 12th of august started (at 0:00, not after sleeping) somewhat nervous and generally with not such a good feeling. after a long back and forth I dropped a blotter of acid with ~150-250µg at 5 in the morning.
long story short. I got incredibly tired, walked back to my tent slightly panicking. after realising that I can't possibly sleep I went up a hill, the panic still growing. on the hill I experienced ego death. I had very helpful and spiritual insights in that trip, it was quite a transformative experience.
the rest of the day was a real happy one as you can imagine. I could have sworn I was never that happy in my life.
communicating was really nice as well. usually I have troubles to express my ideas coherently, but that day they just came out in a very agreeable way.

I didn't meet that special person on the 12th, but it was the 13th, when hallucinogen was playing. we were dancing in a crowd of neohippies, the kind of people I jokingly call "soilpeople" or "earthpeople" because of their funny way to dress.
anyway, I haven't met a person THAT beautiful since then. I still think of her every now and then.

I met her again when shpongle was playing, on the 15th. it was actually the first time I talked with her that day.
if I hadn't been that shy I would still have contact with her, I guess, but alas, alas. ok, she's from Weimar, which is very far from my home, but still.



I have no recollection of what I did on june 25. no, I have no recollection of june except for that (goa)party I had at my home.


I'm not going to meet a certain person tommorow, but as it seems we are going to vienna for a small party tripping sounds like a nice idea, but it won't happen due to a lack of psychedelics.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Very interesting. How was the party?

Here's an nice quote I read today:

"If astrological correlations are real, then the underlying Copernican, Cartesian, and Kantian basis of the modern world view is undermined at its very foundation. It does this in three ways: First, in answer to Copernicus, they [astrological correlations] suggest that the universe is patterned in a way that relates in time and space directly to the human species, that centers on this Earth, that centers even on individual human beings... Second, in answer to Descartes, astrological coincidences suggest that the physical universe is patterned according to certain formal principles or archetypes that are not merely mechanistic but are vividly personal and humanly meaningful...and that therefore the world is not a machine but is ensouled, an anima mundi... And finally, in answer to Kant, these astrological coincidences suggest that the universe can indeed be known by the human mind, because the universe's operative principles are principles with which human experience is directly and intimately familiar from within — that is to say, the universe's operative principles are archetypes which are both subjective and objective, simultaneously informing not only human experience but also planetary motions. As Plato affirmed, the categories of the human mind are also categories of a universal mind, the two minds being intimately connected. "

~ Richard Tarnas, 1990 (cited in Transpersonal Theory & the Astrological Mandala: An Evolutionary Model

Video: Gods & Goddesses - archetypal principles

Video: interview

 

[ararat]

I didn't go there. I stayed at home because my friends were leaving midday and I had to do some stuff. the evening started off shitty but in the end it was a lot of fun, I went to a bar with some friends and had a very nice conversation later on, it lasted until 5:30. best conversation in ages.
I'm not sure about the role of self-fullfilled prophecy in this though. but hey, nice evenings are nice, nothing wrong about that

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

^ Teehee, I remember posting the heart. It was all I managed to do during the second half of my acid trip.

the two trips that i am interested in happened on 15/07/03 overnight, and 20/11/03 overnight

Hm, the first one started off as a Moon trine Jupiter transit, which is good, but around midnight the Moon got opposite your Mars. Recently a friend of mine ingested ayahuasca during a Moon square Mars transit (squares and oppositions have similar effects), and she spent the entire session going through intense feelings of anger, kicking and screaming, even hurting her own head in the process, both of which (anger, accidents) are of course ruled by Mars. Neither of us knew she had this transit; I found out a couple of days later. I think transits of Moon square or opposite Mars, or Moon square or opposite Saturn, definitely raise the chances of having a bummer trip. That week the background influence was alright though: Venus opposite Moon and Saturn trine Mercury. But that Moon opposite Mars, well, I wouldn't want to try that out myself.

The second date is kind of the opposite: it has a very difficult background influence, namely Saturn opposite Moon, which may denote gloomy thoughts or depression in the weeks preceding and following your experience. The early evening wasn't that good either: Moon conjunct Saturn. The transits of Venus were OK though: Venus conjunct Pluto and trine Mars (good for love and sensuality), and the Sun conjunct your Venus-Uranus conjunction. If you stayed awake until the early morning, you would have had a pleasant afterglow, because at that time the Moon was conjunct your Jupiter.

So based on the transits of the Moon alone, I'd say the first trip could very well have been a bummer, while the second one was more pleasurable.

 

[maxfreakout]

So based on the transits of the Moon alone, I'd say the first trip could very well have been a bummer, while the second one was more pleasurable.

thankyou very much for doing that for me!

But it is very dissapointing

it's exactly the opposite, the first date was my first 'life-changing' satori experience and it was a totally blissful ecstatic trip to magnificent heaven, and then set me on a new adventure in life afterwards. The second date was my 'max-freakout' which was a terrifying death-trip to the demonic chains of hell which left me mentally scarred and devastated for months after

they were both overnight and lasted right through to early next day.

After hearing Stan Grof i was very hopeful about astrology, maybe there's some other system of interpretation that would describe me better?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

After hearing Stan Grof i was very hopeful about astrology, maybe there's some other system of interpretation that would describe me better?

This wasn't meant to describe you, just the archetypal background of these evenings. And like I mentioned, there were some contradictory influences there. Of the transits mentioned above, Stan Grof (or Richard Tarnas, the astrologer he often cites) is mainly concerned with the long-term influences, like the Saturn opposite Moon of your second trip. Your feedback on the second trip doesn't surprise me, but I'm surprised about the first. On the other hand, this did occur during Venus opposite Moon, which I already mentioned. Astrology is complex, there are many planets, signs, houses and other factors that have to be taken into account, and likewise a trip is quite a transcendent experience.

they were both overnight and lasted right through to early next day.

Around 3 or 4 am (in the United Kingdom) the Moon did form a sextile with Neptune. This may account for your experiences of Satori. If you were still tripping around 6:30 then the Moon trined your natal Pluto, which may have supported the birth-rebirth experience. I guess it's because these planets are all aspecting Mars in your birthchart (Mars is trine Neptune, and Pluto forms a sextile with both of them) that this Mars transit manifested the way it did.