Psycho-active plants and poison

[Twilight]

Recently I looked up some information about Datura and noticed people call it a poison. Reading about the effects that doesn't really seem surprising to me.

But it did raise a question for me about psychedelics that aren't as dangerous, like mushrooms or cacti.
A plant usually generates poison for defending itself, which I think is the case with Datura.
But what's the deal with mushrooms?
It isn't really a poison to me, neither is it to many other people.
But what's the actual reason why there are plants and organisms that produce psycho-active substances? Why would they do it if it doesn't really protects them from being eaten? Or are humans just silly beings that seem to enjoy their substances that actually have a completely different purpose?

In other words, how do all those organisms that produce it benefit from it?

 

[Forkbender]

In the case of mushrooms, the shrooms are actually the fruit of the organism, so it doesn't die if you eat the shrooms. Just like other fruits, it benefits from being eaten by providing the seeds/spores with a fertile ground. Unless, of course, you flush your shit through the toilet.

Drugs that make people more nature loving are also good for nature in general.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

A plant usually generates poison for defending itself,

Not necessarily.

 

[Twilight]

I admit I'm still a newbie when it comes to herbs and plants and all that.

A plant usually generates poison for defending itself,

Not necessarily.

What would be another reason?

I suppose there isn't really an explaination why mushrooms would have an psycho-active ingredient, it's just there.

In the case of mushrooms, the shrooms are actually the fruit of the organism, so it doesn't die if you eat the shrooms. Just like other fruits, it benefits from being eaten by providing the seeds/spores with a fertile ground.

Yeah, that's true indeed. I forgot about that!

 

[druglessdouglas]

remember natural selection is mindless. if a mutation produces an effect that benefits the organism then that organism will thrive. if it produces a chemical which mimics poisoning it will be left alone weather the chemical is actually toxic or not. seasickness fulls the body into thinking it is poisoned without any toxins being present

 

[GOD]

Its two different things . The mushroom contains Psilocybin . And Psilocybin is hallucinogenic for humans . Is it hallucinogenic or toxic for other species ? Is it a defense mechanism or has it another function in the mushroom ? Is it just a product of other chemical processes that are usefull to the mushroom ? Or is it just there by chance ? Or is it that some species like getting beamed and eat the mushrooms and therby spread the spores around the place ? Or is there a god and he wants us to get beamed ?????? And why is it wednsday today ?

 

[BrainEater]

there IS a god and he WANTS us to get beamed!!! :weedman:

 

[druglessdouglas]

Its two different things . The mushroom contains Psilocybin . And Psilocybin is hallucinogenic for humans . Is it hallucinogenic or toxic for other species ? Is it a defense mechanism or has it another function in the mushroom ? Is it just a product of other chemical processes that are usefull to the mushroom ? Or is it just there by chance ? Or is it that some species like getting beamed and eat the mushrooms and therby spread the spores around the place ? Or is there a god and he wants us to get beamed ?????? And why is it wednsday today ?

its just an accident. 1 in every 10 million or so species is a mutant. most die because the mutation is not usefull. the odd one is usefull and benefits the organism in some way so it thrives and reproduces. if it gives an advantage you end up with the mutation being the norm.
evolution isnt progress it is just change

 

[GOD]

But it is wednsday and i`m sure that that has some significance . Or maybe gods a real prat and enjoys watching when we eat his little jokers in his pack . Or maybe TM was right and it was the spur we needed to become "civilised" and rape the planet...............

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

What would be another reason?

Any process the plant benefits from. For example chlorofyl is very helpful for human beings, but plants don't produce it to make us healthy, they simply produce it to produce energy for themselves. Similarly there are many compounds in nature that were neither intended to be poisonous or healthy. Especially with the psychedelic plants it is doubtful whether it was ever intended as a poison. Even thorns are not always intended as a defence mechanism. Plants just do their thing. This is why I do not really believe in the concept of "teacher plants" either.

 

[GOD]

We have DMT in our bodys , is it there to stop us being eaten or to make us more tasty ? Or is it there for other reasons specific to us ?

The myceleum of Psilocybin mushrooms has more drug in them than the mushrooms so it cant be there as a protection from being eaten or a reason to eat it . Other mnushrooms have no "poisons" / drugs in them , do they get eaten by animals more or less ?

 

[BrainEater]

@CM I agree, but i am not sure whether several plants are teacher plants or not.... because as you consume the (drug)-plant, the substance becomes part of your "body-system" and therefore altering your consciousness and also i am inclined to say that considering the things you can learn during trips, the substance sort of becomes part of you. It would become part of you anyway, because as you make the experiences by having eaten the mind-altering-plant, you already would have made the experiences, hence you would have processed it and integrated (or maybe not) in your experience-referall-system (or not).


i must say it's a different topic though whether you choose to learn something out of it or you don't.


peace :weedman:

 

[Subtle_Nod]

If it was there to stop it being eaten - instant fail. I know there are a great many people that wouldn't even come into contact with it if not for the "Poison".

If poison was the holy grail to not being eaten then a lot more plants would develop it and not be eaten over time - but then, not being eaten doesn't benefit plants either. Some rely on the birds eating their berries and "propagating" them elsewhere.

Also - nettles are poisonous but make a mean soup.

I want to say the poison could be coincidental but it is. All evolution is really. Coincidence that forms patterns retrospectively.

It's also possible things stay poisonous NOT because of the poison but because they also have an unrelated mutation that aided survival.

Key point is - plants don't know there are animals eating them. There probably isn't one word in that sentence they are able to consciously understand and decide upon.

 

[GOD]

"plants don't know there are animals eating them."

Its called natural selection through genetic variation . = It could be that some plants have more "poison" content than others and get eaten more / less than others . Or maybe draw benefit from it in some other way .

 

[druglessdouglas]

its not entirely true. plants sometimes do know something is eating them.
if you take a row of trees and introduce a parasite at the first tree in the row the parasite will do well. the host tree will stress and produce stress hormones which the next tree will detect, causing it to produce the stress hormone and more tannin in its leaves. the next tree in the row will do the same and so on sofurther down the line by the time the parasite gets to the last tree its so full of tannins as to be efectively immune to the parasite.
this shows an awareness of sorts, even if only at a cellular chemical level

 

[GOD]

True . Its done by a sort oif sense of smell isnt it ? Isnt it like phermones ? Its also true that some plants produce more chemicals when they get eaten . Thats why i used to pull leaves off my Morning Glory hoping that they would produce more goodys .

Cacti have a sort of awarenes = Peyote grow better when they are near to each other and San Pedro like to have a distance between eachother or they grow slower or just long and thin . Its not because of light like when you plant cannabis planty to near to each other and then they grow long and thin .

 

[BrainEater]

it's called inter-planteral-communication! :weedman:

 

[druglessdouglas]

hahahaha
good one!

yes im sure there is a lot more subtle stuff than we are aware of. some plants grow well around each other and some suppress each other.

 

[Meduzz]

The female cannabis plant can form male flowers when there are no males around. But there is still no Y chromosome in the plant, thats how they make feminised seeds.

 

[GOD]

Feminised seeds stop you breeding = you have to keep buying them from a seed dealer . Hermaphrodites are BAD because they take controll of the growth cycle . They used to do it with colchicine and other DNA damaging things . Echos of monsanto .