Permanent Hallucinations

[GOD]

The best for arid desserts is custard .

 

[peeniwalli]

i now realize that ive been having an argument for the past days with a retarded person...im not going to waste more of my time.

 

[GOD]

I`m glad to hear that you arent going to waste your time anymore . Why dont you answer my questions instead ?

 

[magickpencil]

i now realize that ive been having an argument for the past days with a retarded person...im not going to waste more of my time.

why would you consider this an acceptable way to bow out of a discussion?

 

[Nomada]

I have, never everland, not found a way not to waste my time.

Why are you mad at the sky, the ocean and the earth,
if it's the sky, the ocean, and the earth that dwell within you?

If we are Anima aprehending the inmensity of the self,
itself, why would you bring any word of love not?

It's fine, I am confused too. It's the words, not us, not real.

 

[st.bot.32]

i now realize that ive been having an argument for the past days with a retarded person...im not going to waste more of my time.

why would you consider this an acceptable way to bow out of a discussion?

It's one thing to doubt HPPD, it does sound pretty dubious and sketchy.

It's another thing to verbally bash people who come here thinking they have symptoms of it. Taking a sledge to bash in a thumbtack is kind of a bad strategy, no?

 

[Guest]

i now realize that ive been having an argument for the past days with a retarded person...im not going to waste more of my time.

Oh boy, don't do that, this stuff was getting interesting.

IMHO what could be happening is that you're very sensitive about what GOD said concerning psychedelics changing your perception of things.

I mean, after my first trips, I quickly realised that if I sat down, relaxed and try to reproduce the effects of LSD or shrooms, I can do that to a certain extend.

Maybe you're just capitalizing big time on this, which is why you think it could be a disease, whereas it's probably nothing more than yourself (your subconscious maybe, I'm not into that kind of thing).

 

[GOD]

"It's another thing to verbally bash people who come here thinking they have symptoms of it. Taking a sledge to bash in a thumbtack is kind of a bad strategy, no?"

Do you mean me ? I havent bashed anyone . I`m getting pissed off with people being blind and not even thinking about what they say , or what i say . For instance you keep saying "HPPD" as if it he has it . How do you know ? We all agree that the guy has symptoms . So why insist its HPPD ? Who made the diagnosis ? Whos qualifyed to do it ?

Please read my posts again and try to be neutral .

 

[druglessdouglas]

its a long road to self knowledge

 

[st.bot.32]

OK then. There is a whole shitload of material on the subject on erowid, reports compiled back to the 1960's. Critical thinking required while reading of course, some of it is more legit sounding than others.

Here's a couple studies done back in the early 80s that if they are accurate, indicate some permanent visual changes in LSD users. (Note, sample size IS kinda small)

http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=1232
http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=1245

And to balance that information, here's a posting from a doctor describing other causes of so-called HPPD symptoms that can cause the symptoms without ever taking psychedelics (taken from HPPD online). It's quite interesting:

There are other causes for persistent visuals and here is an example: temporal lobe epilepsy, a brain(cortical) tumor, intercurrent drug use or toxic exposures to dangerous chemicals at the work place or at home, migraine sufferers can have persistent visual symptoms, and also disorders that are not originally neurological but are disorders of the body that develop effects in the brain. For example: SLE [Systemic Lupus Erythematosus], any type of recent head trauma, intraocular pathology (eye injuries or other possible conditions of your eye that need to be examined by an ophthalmologist, and disorders like Multiple Sclerosis which can have neurological conditions such as sudden blindness or other visual symptoms. It is important to rule out other causes prior to deciding that your disorder is HPPD. Tests that you would undergo include an MRI, Possible EEG (not the qEEG), examinations by your eye doctor and a neurologist. This web site is not intended to diagnose you, but instead provide support to those individuals who have already received the diagnosis of HPPD or who want to learn about individuals who have HPPD.

 

[peeniwalli]

I wasnt saying i was bowing out, just that it would be a waste of time to answer GODs questons...if he actually read what i wrote before, instead of just telling other people to read his posts he would see that i never implied i had some sort of braindamage, or that i knew how or what area of my brain was effected, and that i did say that i acknowledge the theory that hppd is not a disorder as people call it, thats why i put the "" on hppd when i wrote it, i thought most people knew what those meant..
But as some of you say you all have simular visuals at times that we all expirienced before we tried hallucinogens, like the visual snow and tunnelvison and so on... but did any of you ever see floating objects (and im not talking about floaters in the eyefluid but things on tables that seem to be floating back and forward) or breathing walls before psychedelics or after the drugs wore off, on a daily basis?
I think those hallucinations differ from the others most people seem to have, and that together with the extreme case of normal visuals make me think its not just fixed ideas..
And if infact the psychedelics just made me notice what was already there wouldnt that imply that theres still a "risk" that you will never be able to fully ignore it once you see them?

 

[peeniwalli]

interesting...and scary, 4 people in my family has got SLE...i think i might have to check myself out
btw id like to apologize for calling you a retard, even if i find your posts to be rather rude thats not who i am and i shouldnt have gone there, anyways i dont hold a grudge and i hope you dont either.

 

[peeniwalli]

I used to suffer from migraines as a child..i havnt had any for years though, so does alot of people in my family, my aunt, mother and brother...all of them talk about visuals distortions they have and its usually the first hint they get of the oncomming migraine, i myself havnt had this exept one time when i had my worst episode where i thought my head was gonna implode and i threw up everywhere, and those distortions are exactly like the visual snow i get from my "hppd" when its at its worst...i dont know why i never thought of it before.
anyone else who think they might have hppd and suffer from migraine?
maybe psychedelics can trigger it?

 

[Bighead]

Sorry if I come off as a complete dick, but to all those who say that one cannot experience intense hallucinations at baseline are pretty much wrong.

Introducing Charles Bonnet Syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bonnet_syndrome

People who suffer from this are completely sane, when their eyesight deteriorates, the brain tries to pick up the slack and fill in the blanks. Some brains just get it all wrong.

My fiance's grandmother had it, she said it was quite entertaining.

 

[st.bot.32]

interesting...and scary, 4 people in my family has got SLE...i think i might have to check myself out
btw id like to apologize for calling you a retard, even if i find your posts to be rather rude thats not who i am and i shouldnt have gone there, anyways i dont hold a grudge and i hope you dont either.

Yeah, its fascinating, also people with frontal lobe epilepsy can have basically full-blown hallucinogenic experiences.

Anyway about your other post..

I did not see moving walls before taking psychedelics but I would second everyone else on this (like Tiax post above) I only see moving shifting objects when I am focusing on them and trancing myself out. This is actually quite normal. I also get this after smoking a lot of weed. This is also normal--weed IS a mild hallucinogen and on top of that it is totally trance-inducing.

Also, as I have grown more experienced with psychedelics, I actually don't really see the moving shifting objects thing anymore so much when sober. Maybe because I have just stopped thinking about it all the time

Before I ever took psychedelics I did see:
-faces and other shapes in patterns
-mild halos, shimmering edges, spatial distortions (through self-induced trance)
-visual snow
-mild tracers with ghosting

And if infact the psychedelics just made me notice what was already there wouldnt that imply that theres still a "risk" that you will never be able to fully ignore it once you see them?

If you are just learning about what was already there, then I guess that's always the "risk" with learning and having any new experience. You can't shut the door once it has been opened. Especially if somebody has lived their life unaware of/never questioning your senses.

I think more education and information in this vein and talking openly about it is good. In the head (self induced), not in the head (well technically it is all in the head) if it is the former then it is a completely preventable problem

 

[Psychoid]

Also, as I have grown more experienced with psychedelics, I actually don't really see the moving shifting objects thing anymore so much when sober. Maybe because I have just stopped thinking about it all the time

Yeah I had thought about this too, after my first shroom trips I had constant visuals (floor ondulating...), and after tripping a bit more it stopped.

 

[Sticki]

I dont know much about HPPD, But I have a theory about mental conditioning of the mind. Whilst on psychedelics our minds are in a higher state of awareness and also alot more open to suggestion, thoughts and beliefs. Some people can control thier mind and even in the wildist of trips will remain confident that they are tripping and all will return to normal at some point, Some people dont know how to control this situation.

The way I see it is, If people on psychedelics get scared by what they are experiencing they begin to panic. Once panicing they begin to have rapid thoughts like "This is never going to end!" or "Im never going to be normal again!" because their mind is so open and functioning in new ways they begin to create paranoia rapidly which could develop into schitzophrenia just as fast because of the mind being in such a suggestable state.

The mind is a very powerfull tool....

If you believe it soul-heartedly then your mind can conjure up what ever you allow it or lose control over, Which ever the case may be.

As I say this is just a theory I have had

 

[peeniwalli]

that i subconsciously expected to see these visuals when i came back from the trip is something i have a hard time accepting, but it is feasible.
I would like to know if theres something people with these sort of visual disturbances have in common..
And i never really had a bad trip before i got it..

 

[GOD]

I`ve spent the day trying to have the effects you talk about ..... and its easy .

I can see colours , snow , psychedelic worm like things , rainbows and things moveing . Just like i always could when i was a child . Its not an illness its normal . Its called imagination and projection .

But if you want to be ill have fun . And you seem to me to be enjoying playing games with yourself instead of going to a doctor , doing some sensible research or taking notice of what other people say . All i see is that you have fixed ideas , dont question them and that you reinforce your fears . Enjoy yourself .

 

[peeniwalli]

I never said other people couldnt have any of the symtoms, i never said i consider myself to be ill, i dont know why you keep saying i dont listen to other people and why you think i like to play games with myself or what you mean by it, I dont have any fears regarding my symtoms.
I would not go to a doctor to get rid of whatever it is im having because i enjoy it.
I dont think you are contributing alot to the discussion.