Non-local consciousness - a mid-sized questionnaire.

[VapourTrail]

Hey, bet you don't remember me!

I'm struggling to have conversations on some topics as people just refuse to explain what any given word or term means. Not in general and certainly not to them personally.

This is a problem in arenas such as this when the definitions are so personal but the terms are taken to be universal!

Although there are dictionaries of sorts that cover topics on psychonautics they are not prolific enough to function as a standard in even the loosest use of the word in the way that, for example, the Oxford English Dictionary is.

Just now, I am tackling the issue of non-local consciousness and I would like to hear what people here think of the idea.

I have a questionnaire here - http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dGc4YVVaemw2alhaV1JQaHpNQW5HRXc6MA

Thanks!

VapourTrail.

PS - If you do not believe non-local consciousness exists, the questionnaire will take you less than 60 seconds to complete, so please have a look!

 

[VapourTrail]

Thank you for all the replies so far - I know a few of them must be coming from here because I posted it here first and there was replies before I had even finished typing the post anywhere else!

Thanks.

I'll release the results, or those from the people who are allowing me to (above 80%).

The results so far are quite interesting but I don't want to influence those who haven't answered yet.

Thanks.

 

[Nomada]

I couldn't answer the first question

 

[VapourTrail]

I couldn't answer the first question

Haha.

Which is fair enough as long as you are honest.

Give me what you would have liked to have put and I can add it in.

 

[Nomada]

Because your "physical senses" are located at the surface of your "physical body" I sometimes feel that what I call my body is defined by my senses: the point where you say there "out there" is something else, autonomous or, in what is important to my will: "not under my control". So, If you "believe" in "non-local consciousness" as in possessing means by which you can see beyond of what is usually available by means of your "local consciousness" as you would expect if you have two options for answering, then, both answers to the initial question are equivalent because "body" and "consciousness" can be viewed as fundamentally inter-dependent.

 

[VapourTrail]

Because your "physical senses" are located at the surface of your "physical body" I sometimes feel that what I call my body is defined by my senses: the point where you say there "out there" is something else, autonomous or, in what is important to my will: "not under my control". So, If you "believe" in "non-local consciousness" as in possessing means by which you can see beyond of what is usually available by means of your "local consciousness" as you would expect if you have two options for answering, then, both answers to the initial question are equivalent because "body" and "consciousness" can be viewed as fundamentally inter-dependent.

The second answer says that consciousness can ONLY be tied to a physical body.

The first answer does not say that consciousness CANNOT be tied to a physical body, just that consciousness CAN exist without a body.

It says to pick the one that most describes you, if you believe it could go either way, the first answer allows for this, the second answer does not.

The only answer that fits would be the first.

Don't you agree?

Edit: If you don't and can suggest an option to be added, I will oblige!

 

[xenophone]

Hi! There is a theory in modern analytic philosophy, usually referred to as externalism, or anti-individualism, that asserts that the contents of thoughts (or at least some thoughts) are defined by facts external to the physical instantiation of the cognizant agent. Tyler Burge is the philosopher that introduced the argument in the 70's, and many philosophers and cognitive scientists subscribe to this view. I'm not sure I agree but it's pretty fascinating stuff. There have been many essays written on the subject in the last 30 years, but the theory was originally put forth in an article "Individualism and the Mental", which you can read here: http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&l ... al&f=false

 

[Forkbender]

Those are some hard questions. I noticed I really had to bend my view to make up an answer for most of them (still haven't finished), so I'm starting to think you had a specific idea in mind with this questionnaire.

 

[VapourTrail]

Those are some hard questions. I noticed I really had to bend my view to make up an answer for most of them (still haven't finished), so I'm starting to think you had a specific idea in mind with this questionnaire.

Strange, 2 people have said that.

I didn't write the questions in order.

Some of them, I've heard one person say that non-local consciousness detects us all. When I wrote the question to see if it was a wide-held view, it occurred to me that if a connection was real, it would be possible to measure it.

Then I thought, if the possibility was real, there is the possibility that we could replicate it, fake non-local AI.

I didn't have a specific goal, I started with the topic and the questions almost grew organically. I pruned a lot of questions out to shorten the questionnaire.

I did not even consider my own answers to the test until I had finished writing it and posted it here. I didn't even manage to answer it first!

Thank you for the recommendation xenophone - I am collecting them at a rapid rate and would like to read it.

 

[Forkbender]

What is non-local consciousness to you?

 

[ophiuchus]

to me, the question doesn't really apply. i believe that the universe is a physical body, so naturally, i chose the second answer... but that's not how you were asking, correct?...

edit* it only gave me 1 question... did i miss something?

 

[VapourTrail]

What is non-local consciousness to you?

I think I mostly understand the answer to this in terms of what I think it is not.

I don't think it is a traditional God.

Definitely not the Christian God, mostly because I find Christianity full of turning people into salt, stoning them outside the city gates and punishing the human race with in fighting in the form of racism for building a tower too high up!

I like my religions with less S&M.

I don't think it is necessary for it to know it exists itself - which is required of a traditional God.

I don't even think it is necessary for it to know obscene amounts of information "just because".

Or even that it can see the future.

It might not even be aware of the universe as we know it - if it doesn't have physical eyes to see and ears to hear, maybe it has never experienced a single thing we have.

I don't even think it needs to have a plan, or even to exert influence over anything.

It might not even exist.

It might even be the internet working its way through a metric crap tonne of spam.

The truth is, I don't know and that gives me reason to look.

 

[VapourTrail]

to me, the question doesn't really apply. i believe that the universe is a physical body, so naturally, i chose the second answer... but that's not how you were asking, correct?...

edit* it only gave me 1 question... did i miss something?

I told you it would be a really short questionnaire for those people who did not fit the mould.

Maybe I'll question everyone else at a different time about a different subject, this one was fairly narrow in scope.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I just didn't really know what you were defining as local consciousness.

If you were speaking of how I can 'feel' what my neighbor is feeling without seeing him or her, or talking to him or her, no.
If you meant that as a group of people, we all interact with each other on a subconcious level, no.
If you meant that we understand each other as an entity, on some level I somewhat agree, but I cannot fully describe my beliefs on this - I just don't know how..

I believe that humans have a conscious, what you are experiencing right now - and also the subconscious (we can all agree on that). However I believe the subconscious is actually responsible for ~60-70% of our actions, and is actually capable of forming bonds with other subconsciouses at times - i.e. we seem connected, but really it is just our subconscious picking up on very small cues of that the other is throwing out, i.e. subtle body language. A very good subconscious, and intelligent one, can 'read' a person with minimal conversation - on top of this it can create an understanding of a person, and persons in a group. Thusly, the subconscious makes a network, and ok yeah I really don't know what I'm getting at... like always.

 

[VapourTrail]

That people bring to the table different definitions for the same word is part of the fun.

 

[Forkbender]

I think it is possible to have a worldview that doesn't conflict with itself which includes non-local consciousness (nlc).

Consider this:
There is only 1 consciousness, a non-local one.
This nlc is the same consciousness we all feel when we are conscious.
When we observe something, we don't have to be conscious of it, i.e. reflex.
When we consciously observe something, it is as if we shine a flashlight on that something.
This flashlight doesn't need to be our own, it can be the nlc that we share with everything.
Observation, memory, emotion, etc. all are bound to the body, but consciousness doesn't have to be.
When you become conscious of something, you notice immediately the nlc you can access at any time.
You notice you can direct consciousness by blocking out other stuff.
Or you notice that you can make consciousness bigger by allowing more stuff in.



a bit sloppy, but it is monday morning.

 

[VapourTrail]

I think it is possible to have a worldview that doesn't conflict with itself which includes non-local consciousness (nlc).

Consider this:
There is only 1 consciousness, a non-local one.
This nlc is the same consciousness we all feel when we are conscious.
When we observe something, we don't have to be conscious of it, i.e. reflex.
When we consciously observe something, it is as if we shine a flashlight on that something.
This flashlight doesn't need to be our own, it can be the nlc that we share with everything.
Observation, memory, emotion, etc. all are bound to the body, but consciousness doesn't have to be.
When you become conscious of something, you notice immediately the nlc you can access at any time.
You notice you can direct consciousness by blocking out other stuff.
Or you notice that you can make consciousness bigger by allowing more stuff in.

a bit sloppy, but it is monday morning.

Oh how many things I would forgive because it is Monday morning.

An interesting idea which that other people have put forward.

I like it in principle because it means there really is hope for expanding your mind.

 

[Forkbender]

I don't know how it relates to the ideas posted by xenophone, but I have noticed a lot of my deeper psychedelic/holotropic experiences corroborating this view. Consciousness just doesn't seem to be personal, but more like a field which is everywhere. Then again, it may be nowhere in the physical world, but non-local.

What I find interesting now is learning to conduct/aim/direct consciousness to make those things grow that I think are important, like living in harmony with nature, with each other, giving everyone the possibility to explore ideas and discover ways in which we can make a better world. Call me idealist, it makes me happy.

 

[VapourTrail]

I don't know how it relates to the ideas posted by xenophone, but I have noticed a lot of my deeper psychedelic/holotropic experiences corroborating this view. Consciousness just doesn't seem to be personal, but more like a field which is everywhere. Then again, it may be nowhere in the physical world, but non-local.

What I find interesting now is learning to conduct/aim/direct consciousness to make those things grow that I think are important, like living in harmony with nature, with each other, giving everyone the possibility to explore ideas and discover ways in which we can make a better world. Call me idealist, it makes me happy.

You are an idealist. That is a good thing.

We need a moral compass, we need to live with and not against each other and our surroundings, not because it is fun to dance in the streets shouting "peace and love" like a cartoon hippy but for real world reasons.

It is with a peaceful and calm mind that thought flows the easiest. The more people that have access to inner peace the more we will discover and advance.

 

[Forkbender]

yes.