If a tree falls in the forest....?

[BrainEater]

consciousness arises from the universe once upon a time. it manifests in humans and other beings and really is the universe as well. how can we be a separate cause as we were created in and by the universe? so what came first is it the egg or the chicken? does it matter what existed first ? why?

a universe without an observer would be a unobserved universe!


peace :weedman:

 

[buffachino]

Objective reality is hypothetical.
Ultimately it relies on faith.

 

[restin]

what's the difference between the universe and the observer?

 

[IJesusChrist]

Does time exist without an observer?

 

[????????]

what's the difference between the universe and the observer?

the same difference there is between the dream and the dreamer. it's an interdependent duality. if there wasn't any human to hear the tree, then the animals would. if there weren't any animals then the other trees would notice. if there weren't other trees then the first tree wouldn't be there in the first place! it's meaningless to have experience without experiencers. the show needs attendees.

Does time exist without an observer?

no. time is interrelated with perception. there needs to be someone who says omg look at time. there can't be one without the other.

 

[BrainEater]

Does time exist without an observer?

yes it does, or does it? it simply would be unobserved time... it would simply be, would it?

the same difference there is between the dream and the dreamer. it's an interdependent duality. if there wasn't any human to hear the tree, then the animals would. if there weren't any animals then the other trees would notice. if there weren't other trees then the first tree wouldn't be there in the first place! it's meaningless to have experience without experiencers. the show needs attendees.

why can't there be a tree who is just there, alone??

 

[restin]

the same difference there is between the dream and the dreamer. it's an interdependent duality. if there wasn't any human to hear the tree, then the animals would. if there weren't any animals then the other trees would notice. if there weren't other trees then the first tree wouldn't be there in the first place! it's meaningless to have experience without experiencers. the show needs attendees.

hypothetical situation: global warming kills every living being on earth and the earth was the only populated planet. Is the dream over now?

 

[Brugmansia]

what's the difference between the universe and the observer?

Belief.

 

[Crimzen]

i think its illogical to believe that unobserved things dont exist until they are observed
a simple reason is cause and effect, you can observe an effect of something without observing the cause, eg. a black holes gravity (and thats indirect observation) does this mean black holes didnt exist until we first observed them?

besides, since we are all the universe and connected to it then as soon as anyone observes anything you have observed the universe and therefore everything exists...?

 

[IJesusChrist]

Well, what if the universe just "appeared" exactly as it was 500 million years ago. As in everything was placed exactly as it was at the time, yet there was no time before, would there be any difference?

No.

 

[BrainEater]

so the observation of eternal anti-matter - matter balancing in the form of time space or space time and the formation of consciousness followed by formation of conscious beings like humans in this possible parrallel universe would bring out us humans discussing about whether a tree is a conscious being and whether an unobserved universe does exist or not ?? if the universe is infinte then would eternal observation of one instant be just being there??? or would it mean something or someone would think itself to be there??

awareness is subtler than the level of thought except of course you have learned to think silently or something like that...


but then how could we possibly contribute elements of awareness to inanimate objects??? no clue... however then you could think about the gaian mind which is a balancing element for the weather etc etc and its plants and its water and its animals who feed us and allow us to have the strength to think about the deep misteries that lay uncovered in the forever-intertwined fields of consciousness and non-consciousness and the layers in between. so on a planetary scale such a strange seemingly chaotic order would be observed in all parts of our so called universe, which could bring us to the conclusion that energy moving and changing forms in time space is "just another form of life" like trees and therefore a part of a cycle of life taking place on this beautiful blue planet in the vast infitineness of what is commonly called the universe or space time reality .....anyways there might also be far-out places where chaos is present in higher concentration than order...........
who knows really?? and can we even know for sure until we have seen it ???


peace :weedman:

 

[tryptonaut]

... With this, bare with me:

Did the universe exist before consciousness?

I was looking out my window, and I had an insight that maybe God is confused. I thought maybe God was the interwoven fabric of all people's subconcious, then I thought would god have existed before consciousness?

Then I realized the universe couldn't really exist without it...

Is everything conscious?

Hmm.

There are questions that cannot be answered. Generations of philosophers have tried and came to no conclusion. I just accept that and don't ask these questions anymore.
Imagine a child asking "but why?" over and over again on something and you just don't have an answer. Important questions like "why does green look like green?" - when you can't answer it that doesn't mean the question is too high for your intellectual ability - it can also mean the person asking the question doesn't have the insight (yet) to see that the question is pointless...

 

[BrainEater]

so who is the master who makes the grass green? :weedman:


[youtube]yY5r_zox-a8[/youtube]

 

[BrainEater]

ok i'll solve this little riddle myself: it's YOUR brain or the sun or both?? w00000000t another brainteaser???
sorry for spam :? :axe: artyman:

peace :weedman:

 

[gtchemen]

i jesus christ....
God... I laugh at that IDEA
the one you call god is the same others call vishnu or allah.
its a system based on faith.
Religion cannot be proven or disproved. nearly infinite positive or negative ideas support both sides

the way i see it this place must have been around we just havent realized it.

i figure the more we know... or atleast think we know the more we really realize the more we dont know.
Dig this.. Everything we have been taught is just an idea or theory. like the theories in school or feelings such as love and hate.
We know what we were trained and the truth is simply that.
what else are you looking for the truth you seek is hidden in the lies they feed you

in all what do i belive? well im a man of fact and without proof your giving me false inductive reasoning
untill judgment day...

 

[BrainEater]

i think truth is hidden by lies and not in lies, but well maybe words can be used to desentisise the universal innate hardly confusable knowing element or instance within oneself to make it more unaware of "lies and the truth" in general? i don't know... mass media is war lol and we are solders behind the enemy lines.

@IJC would there be a difference if there appeared to be a difference (or no difference)?? what if there was no time " already" ?? what if time was a mental construct, which edges you took too serious to realize the "true nature of time" ??

@gtchemen what place???