I just don't understand how some individuals can be SO closed minded about psychedelics. I had a myspace debate with some kid from my school. He is a fundemental christian and against all mind-altering substances. He is trying to tell me i'm becoming dependent on psychedelics, and I dunno he is just not getting the point at all. I just give up on arguing with him. I will never break his hard head.
I GIVE UP!!!
- Auteur de la discussion user_1919
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phalaris
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In his reality he thinks to have good argumentation. In your reality you think to have good argumentation. After a lengthy discussion the trick is just to agree to not agree, and just let each other be without trying to press your opinion or even get into a actual fight.
I say, purple is THE most beautiful color in the universe, and anyone who is not with me is against me and will be haunted down with force !
be careful with absolutisms.
Forkbender
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user_1919 a dit:
Arguing with people is not the way to make them show a different way.
Send him some flowers and tell him you appreciate his point of view. :wink:
GOD
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Christianity is a sort of self proving mentaly ill circle , the one lie backs up the other on and on in an endless feedback sickness . Arguing with mentaly ill people is senseless . If you look here at several threads by Heartcore and one by me you will find out that christianity is based on taking drugs . And maybe you will find a few arguments to counter his brainwashed mind . Christians have blinkers on that are also closed at the front , and anything that they falsly interpret from the bible they say is gods will and anything you say is blasphemy .
We werent't really getting into a fight about it. We both agreed to not get mad over it. I'm not mad that he doesn't agree with me. I just can't get around the concept of being so closed-minded. Like I don't get it. Right when I post something that any sane human being could not counter act, he comes up with the "dependent" theory. That using these to better your life is a "dependent" issue, even those they are used once every 2 months maybe.
$T0N3R_420
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stupid christian cult. let them see the fact!
GOD
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It`s your christian duty to help him see the light . Beat him with his own weapons . Read the three threads i said about and you will be armed to beat all his arguments . I cant remember what Heartcores were called but he has done at least two on the subject , ask him and he will tell you where they are . Mine was called "Drugs in the bibles" in the General Psychonautics section .
I'm not sure I want to do this though. I mean it makes the kid happy, why would I want to destroy that? I may not agree with his beliefs, but he doesn't agree with mine. It is like him taking away my marijuana, it makes me so happy, I would never want that. So why should I make his life worse by revealing the truth about what he has believed in his whole life?
Forkbender
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user_1919 a dit:
The question is rather if his life is better if he is kidding himself or if he is seeing that he is creating his own little universe (however bad that universe may be). If you show him something about himself that he did not know, he might hate you for it, but eventually he will bump into someone else showing him the light, so he can not blame you for it. And the truth is that he probably got a lot to say to you too that would make you feel the same.
GOD
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I agree with Forkbender . But its not a thing like jehovas witnesses , a sort of forced conversion , believe or be damned . If the subject comes up again just tell him the truth . If you like him you will want to help him , if he is free he will listen . Explain that you have a different point of view , and then tell him you respect his right to have a point of view . Then ask him if he respects you enough to talk about the subject . If you need to defend yourself you could tell him about the drugs in the bibles on wich it , and all religeons , are all based , the dammage that christianity has done in the past and is doing today in society , and about the fact that jesus was a jew , he didnt want to start a new religeon . That if anyone believes in jesus that they should convert to being a jew . Tell him about the ten comandments and make a comparison between them and how the christian world was and is today . Rule number one is "Thou shalt not kill" and who are the biggest killers that have ever lived , christians . Personaly if i can help someone i try to , but if they reject it its their own responsibility and i acept that . Suggestion is a wonderfull thing , if you introduce good arguments into a discussion they stick , the other person has them in their head and subconsciously they will think about it . Its a bit like seeing a car acident , or being a witness to a crime or someone beating up a foreigner or an old lady , are you going to run away or stand up and try to help . This is a choice that everyone is faced with . Do you want to freeze and stagnate in your personal development , be a coward and acept it or continue to grow . You are the decissions that you make and its better to make the right ones and not have to live your life looking back and regretting the things that you havent done or done wrong . A person can not hide from his own conscience however hard he tries .
But as i said before forced conversions dont work , dont try to hard , if he is imune to facts let him live like he wants to . If he has lessons to learn life will keep confronting him with them untill he makes the right decissions or dissapears into his own crippled fantasy world . "You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink"
But as i said before forced conversions dont work , dont try to hard , if he is imune to facts let him live like he wants to . If he has lessons to learn life will keep confronting him with them untill he makes the right decissions or dissapears into his own crippled fantasy world . "You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink"
tryptonaut
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As soon as there is a dogmatic belief involved, there is no point in arguing.
I can often see both sides of an argument, therefore I would never believe in any dogma. I have learned in my life that I can't argue very well because I don't believe strong enough in most things, so I will always re-think my opponent's arguments and often find them to be valid as well.
I once read Schopenhauer's "Eristische Dialektik – Die Kunst Recht zu behalten, in 38 Kunstgriffen dargestellt" (sorry I don't have that in English). Before I read it, I thought it must be an enlightening course in how to argument in a sophisticated way. After I was through 3/4 I threw it away because it was a course in how to make your opponent look bad so that everybody would believe your own arguments.
Arguing about beliefs is silly, and the people who do it are silly. Decorated professors like to do it just like John Doe, only they have better knowledge in how to make their opponents look bad. It still is as valuable as fighting about penis length (well, that is even more valuable because you can measure it!)
I can often see both sides of an argument, therefore I would never believe in any dogma. I have learned in my life that I can't argue very well because I don't believe strong enough in most things, so I will always re-think my opponent's arguments and often find them to be valid as well.
I once read Schopenhauer's "Eristische Dialektik – Die Kunst Recht zu behalten, in 38 Kunstgriffen dargestellt" (sorry I don't have that in English). Before I read it, I thought it must be an enlightening course in how to argument in a sophisticated way. After I was through 3/4 I threw it away because it was a course in how to make your opponent look bad so that everybody would believe your own arguments.
Arguing about beliefs is silly, and the people who do it are silly. Decorated professors like to do it just like John Doe, only they have better knowledge in how to make their opponents look bad. It still is as valuable as fighting about penis length (well, that is even more valuable because you can measure it!)
yes I've seen a lot of internet debates about religion or beliefs and at the end the ones that keep posting are the ones that are full of their own beliefs and just want to impose theirs over their "opponent", and I agree that is silly, common sense to me would be an actual conversation were the sides expose their arguments and show facts or proofs that the other would grab only if he wanted to, you can't impose your ideas on other people even if you think you're "right"
I feel what you say tryptonaut, i don't like "debating" people like it's some kind of contest or something and I too tend to think hard of the other guy's arguments
I feel what you say tryptonaut, i don't like "debating" people like it's some kind of contest or something and I too tend to think hard of the other guy's arguments
buffachino
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The entire conversation turns into a competition of ideas instead of a colaboration of them. There is no real gain for either party.
Im just touching on this topic, a bigger (as per usual) post is coming...
Im just touching on this topic, a bigger (as per usual) post is coming...
GOD
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user_1919 ,
Here is a link to a file called 18184411.rar . It contains some files that might contain information that could help you in your debate . They files are numbered in what i think is the order of usefullness . Please dont believe that all of it is fact , think about each asertion and get a bible and check it out for yourself first . Some of the things that are said and the references that the writers give you can check in the internet using google .
The net adress for 18184411.rar is;- http://rapidshare.com/files/63537496/18184411.rar
The password for 18184411.rar is:- Dangerous Hokus Pokus
If you havent got a bible you might be able to get one in any language here:- http://www.translatum.gr/bible/download.htm
I am looking for "The mystery of manna: The psychedelic sacrament of the Bible" by Dan Merkur , has anyone got it , or can anyone sugest where i can get it please ?
Here is a link to a file called 18184411.rar . It contains some files that might contain information that could help you in your debate . They files are numbered in what i think is the order of usefullness . Please dont believe that all of it is fact , think about each asertion and get a bible and check it out for yourself first . Some of the things that are said and the references that the writers give you can check in the internet using google .
The net adress for 18184411.rar is;- http://rapidshare.com/files/63537496/18184411.rar
The password for 18184411.rar is:- Dangerous Hokus Pokus
If you havent got a bible you might be able to get one in any language here:- http://www.translatum.gr/bible/download.htm
I am looking for "The mystery of manna: The psychedelic sacrament of the Bible" by Dan Merkur , has anyone got it , or can anyone sugest where i can get it please ?
ive been on countless debates about entheogens when i was younger, im bored now cause everytime you reach to a point you have smashed violently the other persons porcelain perspective of things it seems like they have some ''automatic self defence mechanism'' to ridicule the discussion and leave on laughters..
just try to find common things and not the uncommon things to ppl around you or else ''life'' can be tricky
peace
just try to find common things and not the uncommon things to ppl around you or else ''life'' can be tricky
peace
Karl Marx said 'religion is the opiate of the masses'
Like any ambitious dope-peddler, the real aim is not to just turn you into a user, but to turn you into a dealer. This is what evangelism is....aka 'witnessing' or 'converting'.etc...
When a religious loony creates another religious loony, this is called evangelism, and IT is the real enemy.
I firmly believe each person should be able to believe in any 'god' or 'gods' they want to, AS LONG as they leave the brainwashing-machine at home. When someone begins to exert their mental energies to convert another to whatever religion, then said person has become the problem.
Living in the deep south of the usa, I have become familiar with the tools of the loony religious right. It isn't enough for them to get you to come to church, no, soon after the initial visit, they begin pestering one to 'go out and witness' or 'do the lords work'....or whatever other cheesy-ass label you'd give to coercion.
They're bullies, basically, and like any bully, hit 'em between the eyes,really good, and watch em run...
When I was incarcerated, I had to threaten a Federal Civil Rights lawsuit so I didn't have to be around a bunch of fake ass convicts trying to trade drugs and cigarettes while they slobbered over the lady preacher...
And he wants to talk about dependent....christianity is the biggest crutch there is...what a completely lost, ignorant hypocrite.
Like any ambitious dope-peddler, the real aim is not to just turn you into a user, but to turn you into a dealer. This is what evangelism is....aka 'witnessing' or 'converting'.etc...
When a religious loony creates another religious loony, this is called evangelism, and IT is the real enemy.
I firmly believe each person should be able to believe in any 'god' or 'gods' they want to, AS LONG as they leave the brainwashing-machine at home. When someone begins to exert their mental energies to convert another to whatever religion, then said person has become the problem.
Living in the deep south of the usa, I have become familiar with the tools of the loony religious right. It isn't enough for them to get you to come to church, no, soon after the initial visit, they begin pestering one to 'go out and witness' or 'do the lords work'....or whatever other cheesy-ass label you'd give to coercion.
They're bullies, basically, and like any bully, hit 'em between the eyes,really good, and watch em run...
When I was incarcerated, I had to threaten a Federal Civil Rights lawsuit so I didn't have to be around a bunch of fake ass convicts trying to trade drugs and cigarettes while they slobbered over the lady preacher...
And he wants to talk about dependent....christianity is the biggest crutch there is...what a completely lost, ignorant hypocrite.
magickmumu
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Dear Spice.
I can’t imagine what it’s like living in the deep south of USA. It must be real bad with all those fundamentalist around there.
I’ve heard they put up crosses along highways all over the country, and have a lot of political power.
They brainwash there kids in believing in anti-evolution and anti-abortion.
There is this documentary movie called Jesus camp. I saw this trailer
Scary.
:shock:
I can’t imagine what it’s like living in the deep south of USA. It must be real bad with all those fundamentalist around there.
I’ve heard they put up crosses along highways all over the country, and have a lot of political power.
They brainwash there kids in believing in anti-evolution and anti-abortion.
There is this documentary movie called Jesus camp. I saw this trailer
Scary.
:shock:
