God

[Subtle_Nod]

^ You take things waaaaaaaaaay too literally. Don't believe the bible/koran/vedas/what have you, search for the eternal truths within it. It is not a physical or metaphysical game. It is part of a psychological understanding of humanity.

Quite the opposite, everyone else takes these things too literally. Me on the other hand, Meh. I'm just not FOR a God, but no one that is has well... anything on having no God.

"It is part of a psychological understanding of humanity".

Those are pretty words, no arguing that, but English the way English is - I'm not sure how to take it. I may completely agree or completely disagree with you, depending on how your internal dictionary sees those words.

My whole point was, that to take those books, word for word is silly, and to take them as stories pointing at the truth in the way that a finger pointing to the moon is not the moon does nothing for the discussion of God.

I freely admit a person could take a bible and God aside learn a lot of things that would make them a much better person, but I was directly discussing God rather than the merits of the texts that people claim he wrote.

I could find good things in the Koran but that's for a different discussion really.

As for the God - Yes/No/Maybe - question. I have to say "No". Even if he does appear in good stories that contain important lessons.

I have books of faerie tales from when I was an infant, in all of which the stories end "and the moto of this story is:", that does not mean I worship the Frog or think that the Scorpion is satan.

I was hoping to appeal to someone who wanted to talk directly about the existence of God in regards to the problems I have with believing in the existence of God.

I don't think this makes me a bad person as such. It doesn't mean I have no believes just because I did not state them in my arguments again a God either - it's not true - but I'll save that for another thread where I can be on topic because if I was to go off topic my ranting would not only be ranting, but it could take everyone else off topic with it.

 

[BrainEater]

I understand the concept of time like this in connection with the idea of god:


Maybe when the universe was created, the universe was created.

Aditionally to the creation of the universe there was time being created.

Time represents change, change is connected with possibilities. So in the moment of the creation of the universe, which must be considered an infinite act of creation, there was also time created for letting continous change be possible.

Now "time" can also be seen as the incredible amount of possiblites of the single separate small entities, if you divivded the complete big thing into an infinite amount of small parts, and of course the interaction/correlation between the possibilities of all the entities/parts.


What i want to say is the following: Does the act of creation of the infinite amount of possibilties for the infinite parts/entities in the universe involve knowing the outcome of every single combination which is possible in that system???

 

[Forkbender]

Quite the opposite, everyone else takes these things too literally.

I don't think people here take things too literally, so your literal deconstruction about some religious dogma doesn't really add up.

The rest of your post regarding the existence of God kind of hinges on what you understand God to be, doesn't it? If God is everything there is, or love, or consciousness, it is pretty hard to deny its existence, right? If you take a 3000 year old biblical definition literally, it's another question. If you think of some image, it is probably just an image.

I also think that there should be a proper distinction between belief and faith. There's a huge difference.

In my opinion everybody has 'some' God. Be it a religious God or a personal God or a God based on enlightenment values or a God based on a romantic ideal. The true path consists in finding out your 'some' God and unmasking it, seeing what is behind it and if it is true. It is right up there against belief, but you need faith to undertake the journey.

 

[GOD]

13 years old ? Where did you get that from ?

Where does it say that mary said she was a virgin ? The church said she was a virgin . Maybe it comes from Luthers translation from latin into german . It says "Junge frau" = young lady . It could have been translated as "Jungfrau" = virgin .

You are talking about a religeous definition of god as an all seeing all knowing super being . You are also speculating about what that being would do . In your version he should know everything , are you your definition of god that you feel you can speculate about a religeous super beings motives ?

 

[BrainEater]

In my opinion everybody has 'some' God. Be it a religious God or a personal God or a God based on enlightenment values or a God based on a romantic ideal. The true path consists in finding out your 'some' God and unmasking it, seeing what is behind it and if it is true. It is right up there against belief, but you need faith to undertake the journey.

= ego death???

 

[Forkbender]

Where does it say that mary said she was a virgin ? The church said she was a virgin . Maybe it comes from Luthers translation from latin into german . It says "Junge frau" = young lady . It could have been translated as "Jungfrau" = virgin .

I thought it was an older mistake, when the Hebrew bible was translated into greek. The Hebrew word for young woman (alma) was translated into the Greek word for virgin (parthenos). Greek was the world language back then, so it kind of sticked.

 

[GOD]

"The Hebrew word for young woman (alma) was translated into the Greek word for virgin (parthenos)."

Thanx . Sounds interesting . I just had my theory because of the similarity between "jungfrau" and "junge frau" and luther being a german . Plus his / the churches motives for mary being called a virgin = to justify jesus as being gods son . I´d like to know more about what you say , have you got a net link ?

 

[BrainEater]

so the whole thing what most christians believe is a farce and the source is a translation error ???

 

[Forkbender]

According to this we can both be right.

Here is another link.

 

[GOD]

Thanx . Vigins cant get pregnant so its a hoax .

 

[Forkbender]

^ Oh, they can, they just can't stay virgins while doing so.

 

[GOD]

The philosipher again.......

Virgins cant have kids .

 

[Forkbender]

Unless they adopt!

 

[GOD]

Virgins cant concieve and give birth to little bastards

 

[BrainEater]

Holy virgins CAN give birth if GOD chose them for doing so.

(because GOD is almighty)

 

[Subtle_Nod]

Holy virgins CAN give birth if GOD chose them for doing so.

(because GOD is almighty)

Except God wouldn't need a Mother to have a kid.

Mary was about to get married. At that time and at that place, what was the normal age for marriage.

Also note, it's not going to be a lot older than this age if she was considered a young woman by some translations.

Oh yeah, but yes - what age was normal back then?

 

[Subtle_Nod]

What i want to say is the following: Does the act of creation of the infinite amount of possibilties for the infinite parts/entities in the universe involve knowing the outcome of every single combination which is possible in that system???

No - I can bake bread and not know I will burn it.

A God that knows EVERYTHING must know this, maybe it's just that, if there is a God, it doesn't know everything.

@Forkbender:

I didn't mean everyone *here*, just that there is a lot of people who take that interpretation and that is my problem with their interpretations.

 

[BrainEater]

i guess 13 can be considered quite normal...

nowadays the topic is sort of a tabu, but i think women are generally able to give birth beginning at the age of 12-14 or somethin=???
of course it isn't probably the best thing to do, as the woman would be stiill in developing phase or somethin...

but of course it can vary a lot for every individual.


Subtle_Nod i guess your idea of "knowing" is probably limited.


Well if it really wasn't possible for humans to conceive childs without having sex, then the Jesus thing is a farce or Jesus WAS GOD, and that's why it could have been possible for him to be born without his mother having sex with another man.

 

[Subtle_Nod]

i guess 13 can be considered quite normal...

nowadays the topic is sort of a tabu, but i think women are generally able to give birth beginning at the age of 12-14 or somethin=???
of course it isn't probably the best thing to do, as the woman would be stiill in developing phase or somethin...

but of course it can vary a lot for every individual.


Subtle_Nod i guess your idea of "knowing" is probably limited.


Well if it really wasn't possible for humans to conceive childs without having sex, then the Jesus thing is a farce or Jesus WAS GOD, and that's why it could have been possible for him to be born without his mother having sex with another man.

I get that - but why have a parent at all?

What's more likely, that in those days a teenager would have lied if they got pregnant or that God Did It?

God might have, but it's definitely not the most LIKELY answer.

As for what I was saying before - most people think that God knows Everything. I don't think it is possible for God to know EVERYTHING and for there to be any sort of punishment outside the normal flow of life since punishment in the afterlife after God created a planet knowing you would "sin" on it is a stupid concept.

If there is a Hell and an All Knowing God, God is not NICE - God knew you would be 100% guaranteed to go to hell (if that is where you are going) before he even created light and he could have changed it but didn't.

So:
1 - God might not have that knowledge of the future, that would give us the freewill to make our own mistakes.
2 - God has perfect knowledge and he will not punish us as he saw it coming.
3- God has perfect knowledge and he will punish us because he can.
4 -There is no God.

I think if there is a God #2 is most likely, I think without perfect knowledge he loses perfect power and could be overthrown and that doesn't make much of a God, so I prefer a non-punishing God.

#1 Next, albeit slightly uneasily as it's a bit of a leap to call this a God.

#3 I do not even consider.

I'm with #4 just now, when you look at the other choices, it's not hard.

So, do you think God has perfect knowledge?

 

[BrainEater]

Your thoughts are good!!! But maybe your conclusions lead to delusion! I don't know, but the biggest problem is the word and underlying concept of "GOD".

and YES i do think GOD has PERFECT knowledge.


PEACE. :weedman: