GOD TEK 2
- Auteur de la discussion GOD
- Date de début
BirdGame87
Neurotransmetteur
- Inscrit
- 11/4/08
- Messages
- 48
Where would the best place to store substrate jars be? In a cool environment (refrigerator) or normal temperature environment (in room)?
Do you think it might be possible that the spores reached thermal death temp when they passed through the hot needle, which I flame sterilized?
Do you think it might be possible that the spores reached thermal death temp when they passed through the hot needle, which I flame sterilized?
BirdGame87
Neurotransmetteur
- Inscrit
- 11/4/08
- Messages
- 48
Oh, and just for the sake of disclosure, let me say that I have done/am doing a lot of research on the subject. I don’t want the author of this thread or his readers to think that I’m taking the lazy route by bugging experts before doing the work myself!
GOD
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 14/1/06
- Messages
- 14 944
After its been sterilised keep it cool . I have had them in the fridge and used them later but i had the impression that the ones that were in the fridge didnt grow as good / fast afterwards and that when the bottles sweat you have more chance of contamination .
2.5 days is not enough , wait a week and then you will know . Is the temperature high enough ? I would be very surprised if you got sold a grow box and the spores were off because we would soon hear about people doing mushroom rippoffs in the net .
The spores wont die of heat ........ unless the needle is red hot maybe . The are very insensitive so dont worry about that .
You arent taking the lazy route you are taking the best one .
2.5 days is not enough , wait a week and then you will know . Is the temperature high enough ? I would be very surprised if you got sold a grow box and the spores were off because we would soon hear about people doing mushroom rippoffs in the net .
The spores wont die of heat ........ unless the needle is red hot maybe . The are very insensitive so dont worry about that .
You arent taking the lazy route you are taking the best one .
BirdGame87
Neurotransmetteur
- Inscrit
- 11/4/08
- Messages
- 48
Thanks for the reply, GOD! I sent you a message thanking you, but for some reason it's not appearing in my sent messages.
Basically, the message stated that I am glad I have your response to keep me hopeful, and that the temp is slightly lower than some sources suggest (it is about 80 F/26.6 C, while I've seen guides suggesting that about 86 degrees F is best). The needle was not red hot, so I'm hoping the spores survived their journey from syringe to substrate.
I'm already fantasizing about posting pictures of a decent harvest when this is all over. Thanks again, and wish me luck (or better yet, wish me intelligence!).
Basically, the message stated that I am glad I have your response to keep me hopeful, and that the temp is slightly lower than some sources suggest (it is about 80 F/26.6 C, while I've seen guides suggesting that about 86 degrees F is best). The needle was not red hot, so I'm hoping the spores survived their journey from syringe to substrate.
I'm already fantasizing about posting pictures of a decent harvest when this is all over. Thanks again, and wish me luck (or better yet, wish me intelligence!).
hey GOD,
I have a few questions. My friend is in the process of growing mushrooms. He has 8 jars that will succeed, and my friend would like to know the best way to fruit them. He wonders if he should do the "Dunk & Roll", and with experience, does it offer more mushrooms in the fruiting process, or is it a pointless step?
Also, should the mushroom jars be left to sit a week after they are fully white? I hear many websites saying to leave them sit for a week, why is that? Is the myclium network not 100% developed inside; what is the reasoning behind that?
One more, when my friend builds a growbox, he is going to get a big clear bin, and drill many holes in it. He is going to make the humidy very high by adding about 3-4 inches of wet pertile to the bottom of the clear bin. Also he will use an air pump, attached to a 2-litre water bottle, that is filled with water, to increse the humidity also. What else can my friend do to increase the amount of Mushrooms that will sprout? I have read somewhere else that if you do it properly, you can get 4 times as much mushrooms. What factors are effecting the amount of mushrooms that sprout? Temperature? Which my friend will keep at 82 C, humidity, which my friend is going to keep as high as possible, and does not know how to increase it much more, and is there anything else effecting it?
Thanks!
PEACE & LOVE
user_1919
I have a few questions. My friend is in the process of growing mushrooms. He has 8 jars that will succeed, and my friend would like to know the best way to fruit them. He wonders if he should do the "Dunk & Roll", and with experience, does it offer more mushrooms in the fruiting process, or is it a pointless step?
Also, should the mushroom jars be left to sit a week after they are fully white? I hear many websites saying to leave them sit for a week, why is that? Is the myclium network not 100% developed inside; what is the reasoning behind that?
One more, when my friend builds a growbox, he is going to get a big clear bin, and drill many holes in it. He is going to make the humidy very high by adding about 3-4 inches of wet pertile to the bottom of the clear bin. Also he will use an air pump, attached to a 2-litre water bottle, that is filled with water, to increse the humidity also. What else can my friend do to increase the amount of Mushrooms that will sprout? I have read somewhere else that if you do it properly, you can get 4 times as much mushrooms. What factors are effecting the amount of mushrooms that sprout? Temperature? Which my friend will keep at 82 C, humidity, which my friend is going to keep as high as possible, and does not know how to increase it much more, and is there anything else effecting it?
Thanks!
PEACE & LOVE
user_1919
GOD
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 14/1/06
- Messages
- 14 944
User_1919 ,
Thank you for asking . You just proved that you are one of the few adults on this site . Most people here are to egoistic to ask , they seem to think if they ask that people will think that they have no idea , instead of understanding that everyone sees that they dont ask and realise because of that that they havent got a clue . I have been trying to get people to ask , to share their knowledge , to grow together as friends and to help eachother to become good growers since i came to this site .
I can only give you my thoughts , as i think them and in my way . I will make statements and try to point you in the right direction by asking you questions . It would be extra cool if you , or anyone else , would throw answers and / or more questions that arise back at me .
c
"Dunk & Roll"
Have you ever seen mycel growing in lumps on the ground ? = no . Have you ever seen Psilocybe mycel growing open in nature ? = no . Have you ever seen mycel growing under water ? = no .
It might produce more mushrooms in the short term but just as i`m against castrating children to make them sing better , or poking canarys eyes out to make them sing better i`m against water boarding mycel . Just understanding , and improving your method will make MUCH more diference to your harvest than war crimes against mycel .
Why do people do it ? Because they havent thought enough about what they are doing . Because they land on one of those stupid moron mushroom forums that are jam packed full with people who dont understand the what and why of what they are doing . People growing on other grains than rice . People who talk endless shit about agar - agar and dog food media !!!!! Backward mental cripples playing post offices .
They do it because they are faced with the fact that they have dificulty supplying their mycel with water . Mushrooms grow where mushrooms grow , where they feel comfortable . They dont need peopel to water them , they dont "need" over 90% humidity to grow and they dont need fish tanks !!!!
So the question arises why dont mushrooms in the wild need fish tanks and extreme , doubtfull methods to supply them with water ?
"Also, should the mushroom jars be left to sit a week after they are fully white?"
No . When the mycel is grown through and it get air it flowers . It has nothing to do with temperature so long as its within its flowering range . Allthough temperature shock will / can make the mushrooms flower , and / or flower a bit more , a bit like people in plane crashes who have orgasms before they die , i dont think that torturing life forms is going to get anyone anywhere or plus points in the long term .
So , maybe these methods produce more than they dont , if you understand what i mean , but they are all doubtfull methods to compensate for the negative side of growing mushrooms indoors , or out of area , or out of season . = suplying them with water .
So why do people have dificulty suplying water and what could they do about it ?
"he is going to get a big clear bin"
I would advise you not to use clear containers . Mycel doesnt grow in light in nature , it grows in darkness . = there are contaminents that need light to grow so if you use light proof containers you cut the chances of contamination . That might sound trivial but it is not . From big supermarkets and building shops you can buy very cheep , light and unbreakable plastic containers like baby baths , laundry baskets ( the ones i used were 45 X 26 X 67 cms ) , cement tubs ( the ones i used were round and 60 X 37 cms ) and freezer boxes . The containers must have a flat top so that you can lay a sheet of clear plastic over them and keep them relitivly air tight / contamination free .If you have a grow shop near you ...... and are stupid enough to go to it you can get a realy nice , domed , soft plastic clone green house wich is 92 X 55 X 10 cms with a lid that is 30 cms high and is very good to grow mushrooms in . But the 10 cm is not realy deep enough but if you are carefull it works . ( we should be carefull about what plastic we use , some plastics stink real bad and are not good for growing in ) .
"by adding about 3-4 inches of wet pertile "
This is the way to go but i never used more than 2 inches . But again please think about the why it good to do that ? What advantages does it bring , and what dissadvantages ? And dont let your mycel stand in water , the perlite is there to facilitate evaporation = make humidity but mushrooms cant swim so there should be a space between the top of the water , the top of the perlite and the base of your cake . If they stand in water the chances of contamination are much more .
"you can get 4 times as much mushrooms."
I have never kept any records and never weighed anything , BUT yes you can multiply your harvest and lower your risk drasticaly , very easily .
"What factors are effecting the amount of mushrooms that sprout?"
The amount of water and nutrients . Plus the temperature , if its to hot the mycel grows slower and eventualy dies of thermal shock , if its to cold it grows less , flowers less or doesnt flower at all . P.Cubensis or Paneoleus Cyanescens mushrooms have a growth curve where under about 18°c nothing much happens , 23°C is about optimal and 30°C is to much because the ontaminents also have a growth curve and they are often better at home with temperatures over 25°C ( just a theoretical example of the top of my head ) and also often better at growing under the optimal temperature for growing Psilocybe mushrooms . So i say 23°C to 25°C is the optimal temperature for growing those mushrooms at .
"82 C"
???? have you said that right ???? 100°C = boiling water = sterilisation , and all the methods i have seen talk about 90% and more humidity .
I would sugest that you think about condensed water condensing and you loosing it through evaporation . = you have a pool of water continualy evaporating and condensing ........ and loosing humidity through evaporation every time you open your box to give it air . Why doesnt this happen so criticaly out doors ?
Thank you for asking . You just proved that you are one of the few adults on this site . Most people here are to egoistic to ask , they seem to think if they ask that people will think that they have no idea , instead of understanding that everyone sees that they dont ask and realise because of that that they havent got a clue . I have been trying to get people to ask , to share their knowledge , to grow together as friends and to help eachother to become good growers since i came to this site .
I can only give you my thoughts , as i think them and in my way . I will make statements and try to point you in the right direction by asking you questions . It would be extra cool if you , or anyone else , would throw answers and / or more questions that arise back at me .
c
"Dunk & Roll"
Have you ever seen mycel growing in lumps on the ground ? = no . Have you ever seen Psilocybe mycel growing open in nature ? = no . Have you ever seen mycel growing under water ? = no .
It might produce more mushrooms in the short term but just as i`m against castrating children to make them sing better , or poking canarys eyes out to make them sing better i`m against water boarding mycel . Just understanding , and improving your method will make MUCH more diference to your harvest than war crimes against mycel .
Why do people do it ? Because they havent thought enough about what they are doing . Because they land on one of those stupid moron mushroom forums that are jam packed full with people who dont understand the what and why of what they are doing . People growing on other grains than rice . People who talk endless shit about agar - agar and dog food media !!!!! Backward mental cripples playing post offices .
They do it because they are faced with the fact that they have dificulty supplying their mycel with water . Mushrooms grow where mushrooms grow , where they feel comfortable . They dont need peopel to water them , they dont "need" over 90% humidity to grow and they dont need fish tanks !!!!
So the question arises why dont mushrooms in the wild need fish tanks and extreme , doubtfull methods to supply them with water ?
"Also, should the mushroom jars be left to sit a week after they are fully white?"
No . When the mycel is grown through and it get air it flowers . It has nothing to do with temperature so long as its within its flowering range . Allthough temperature shock will / can make the mushrooms flower , and / or flower a bit more , a bit like people in plane crashes who have orgasms before they die , i dont think that torturing life forms is going to get anyone anywhere or plus points in the long term .
So , maybe these methods produce more than they dont , if you understand what i mean , but they are all doubtfull methods to compensate for the negative side of growing mushrooms indoors , or out of area , or out of season . = suplying them with water .
So why do people have dificulty suplying water and what could they do about it ?
"he is going to get a big clear bin"
I would advise you not to use clear containers . Mycel doesnt grow in light in nature , it grows in darkness . = there are contaminents that need light to grow so if you use light proof containers you cut the chances of contamination . That might sound trivial but it is not . From big supermarkets and building shops you can buy very cheep , light and unbreakable plastic containers like baby baths , laundry baskets ( the ones i used were 45 X 26 X 67 cms ) , cement tubs ( the ones i used were round and 60 X 37 cms ) and freezer boxes . The containers must have a flat top so that you can lay a sheet of clear plastic over them and keep them relitivly air tight / contamination free .If you have a grow shop near you ...... and are stupid enough to go to it you can get a realy nice , domed , soft plastic clone green house wich is 92 X 55 X 10 cms with a lid that is 30 cms high and is very good to grow mushrooms in . But the 10 cm is not realy deep enough but if you are carefull it works . ( we should be carefull about what plastic we use , some plastics stink real bad and are not good for growing in ) .
"by adding about 3-4 inches of wet pertile "
This is the way to go but i never used more than 2 inches . But again please think about the why it good to do that ? What advantages does it bring , and what dissadvantages ? And dont let your mycel stand in water , the perlite is there to facilitate evaporation = make humidity but mushrooms cant swim so there should be a space between the top of the water , the top of the perlite and the base of your cake . If they stand in water the chances of contamination are much more .
"you can get 4 times as much mushrooms."
I have never kept any records and never weighed anything , BUT yes you can multiply your harvest and lower your risk drasticaly , very easily .
"What factors are effecting the amount of mushrooms that sprout?"
The amount of water and nutrients . Plus the temperature , if its to hot the mycel grows slower and eventualy dies of thermal shock , if its to cold it grows less , flowers less or doesnt flower at all . P.Cubensis or Paneoleus Cyanescens mushrooms have a growth curve where under about 18°c nothing much happens , 23°C is about optimal and 30°C is to much because the ontaminents also have a growth curve and they are often better at home with temperatures over 25°C ( just a theoretical example of the top of my head ) and also often better at growing under the optimal temperature for growing Psilocybe mushrooms . So i say 23°C to 25°C is the optimal temperature for growing those mushrooms at .
"82 C"
???? have you said that right ???? 100°C = boiling water = sterilisation , and all the methods i have seen talk about 90% and more humidity .
I would sugest that you think about condensed water condensing and you loosing it through evaporation . = you have a pool of water continualy evaporating and condensing ........ and loosing humidity through evaporation every time you open your box to give it air . Why doesnt this happen so criticaly out doors ?
Ok thanks GOD,
I ment 82 F, sorry for the mistake.
From my opinion, nature is perfect in everyway, and we humans cannot dublicate it. But from a 'scientific view', I'm not to sure. I'm just 'shooting darts' at it, but is it because the mycleium is hidden under soil, and somehow there is a degree of humidity created between the soil and mycleium. Does the mycleium draw nurtients and water from the surrounding soil, and when the humidty is high outside, they do well when they are above soil?
So when the jars are a solid white all around the side and the bottom, you then start the fruiting process. And if I understand correctly, the mycelium is not as densly grown and it is less dense, the air can exchange better between the outside environemnt and the middle of the cake? I'm trying to really truly understand the stuff you say, and I am not just a follower, rather someone who actually understands the knowledge.
Could they create a system, like the earth, that can redistrubute the water in small quantities. So when the water starts to eveportate from the Pertile, you could put a clear plastic sort of 45 degrees, so the water eveporates and then is dripped back down to the pertile.
But now this draws a question, wouldn't it work better to have a water source right at the start, and then high humidty after. Because, everyone knows, about 24 hours after a rainfall, or even sooner, go mushroom hunting. Why do the mushroom pop up after a rainfall. Leads me to believe that you need an initial water supply, then high humidity.
Alright, I will get a dark black container, and then cut out the top, and replace it with some clear type of material. This will lower the contimination rate? Right?
I know, I was going to use tin foil to seperate the layers, and then also place the cake on the top of the lid.
Alright, sorry for the long post, and takes for your help,,
I have one more question, does it matter what way your myclieum is facing if it was colonized in a tapered 1/2 pint jar? Is there an up, or a down for the myclieum?
Thanks,
PEACE & LOVE
user_1919
I ment 82 F, sorry for the mistake.
From my opinion, nature is perfect in everyway, and we humans cannot dublicate it. But from a 'scientific view', I'm not to sure. I'm just 'shooting darts' at it, but is it because the mycleium is hidden under soil, and somehow there is a degree of humidity created between the soil and mycleium. Does the mycleium draw nurtients and water from the surrounding soil, and when the humidty is high outside, they do well when they are above soil?
So when the jars are a solid white all around the side and the bottom, you then start the fruiting process. And if I understand correctly, the mycelium is not as densly grown and it is less dense, the air can exchange better between the outside environemnt and the middle of the cake? I'm trying to really truly understand the stuff you say, and I am not just a follower, rather someone who actually understands the knowledge.
Could they create a system, like the earth, that can redistrubute the water in small quantities. So when the water starts to eveportate from the Pertile, you could put a clear plastic sort of 45 degrees, so the water eveporates and then is dripped back down to the pertile.
But now this draws a question, wouldn't it work better to have a water source right at the start, and then high humidty after. Because, everyone knows, about 24 hours after a rainfall, or even sooner, go mushroom hunting. Why do the mushroom pop up after a rainfall. Leads me to believe that you need an initial water supply, then high humidity.
Alright, I will get a dark black container, and then cut out the top, and replace it with some clear type of material. This will lower the contimination rate? Right?
I know, I was going to use tin foil to seperate the layers, and then also place the cake on the top of the lid.
Alright, sorry for the long post, and takes for your help,,
I have one more question, does it matter what way your myclieum is facing if it was colonized in a tapered 1/2 pint jar? Is there an up, or a down for the myclieum?
Thanks,
PEACE & LOVE
user_1919
drkelmnt
Neurotransmetteur
- Inscrit
- 15/3/08
- Messages
- 26
Good day friends. I had a real quick question about the substrate. Sunday jars were injected with spore syringe, yet to see anything in jar. The only thing that wouldn't be 100% perfect is that not all the brown rice was powder, there are a lot of chunks, what should I expect?
JustinNed
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
- Inscrit
- 12/10/07
- Messages
- 1 954
So the point of steam sterilization is to kill bacteria to prevent contamination. The 2 major ways to kill bacteria in general are to keep objects either really hot, or really cold. So opposed to using steam, hot water vapors to sterilize could you not freeze to kill bacteria? I wouldn't think that freezing would have any effect on the substrate either, so couldn't this be a good alternative to steam?
I just thought that the water in the substrate would freeze, but as long as you leave a tiny bit of room in jar for water expansion to prevent cracking, and followed with foil, moisture should all stay in. What do you think??
I just thought that the water in the substrate would freeze, but as long as you leave a tiny bit of room in jar for water expansion to prevent cracking, and followed with foil, moisture should all stay in. What do you think??
I have found mushroom growing extremely easy. I'm now growing some weed for the second time in my life and they already have some kind of sunburn 
With mushrooms you're so involved in the process from spore to basidiome you just know it's going to work
Good luck user_1919 and other growers!
And remember... stay optimistic while working on your shrooms, I'm sure it works wonders
With mushrooms you're so involved in the process from spore to basidiome you just know it's going to work
Good luck user_1919 and other growers!
And remember... stay optimistic while working on your shrooms, I'm sure it works wonders
bear
Neurotransmetteur
- Inscrit
- 29/4/08
- Messages
- 26
GOD, I applaud you for encouraging the exchange of knowledge and information. I thank you for reminding us that the only stupid questions are the ones that are never asked, and consider me encouraged.
I do disagree, however, with your thoughts concerning dunking and other methods which have been adapted after lots of experimentation by forward thinking mycologists. If you want to get the most yield, design experiments to test factors which influence or seem to influence yield. If it works for you, it works regardless of the 'advice' you get.
I approve of the use of non-rice grains (though I'd love to hear the reasons you like rice) and ALWAYS dunk and case. Properly prepared cakes, etc. should have enough moisture for a ripping good first flush. Dunking after the first flush has increased yield for at least the tested clones by giving them something to drink.
Overnight fridge dunks are great, experiment with the time for the size of your substrates.
I do disagree, however, with your thoughts concerning dunking and other methods which have been adapted after lots of experimentation by forward thinking mycologists. If you want to get the most yield, design experiments to test factors which influence or seem to influence yield. If it works for you, it works regardless of the 'advice' you get.
I approve of the use of non-rice grains (though I'd love to hear the reasons you like rice) and ALWAYS dunk and case. Properly prepared cakes, etc. should have enough moisture for a ripping good first flush. Dunking after the first flush has increased yield for at least the tested clones by giving them something to drink.
Overnight fridge dunks are great, experiment with the time for the size of your substrates.
