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Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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- 15/9/12
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Mi sono dato un po' da fare:
Quindi:
- La psilocibina e' molto piu' stabile rispetto alla psilocina e non tende ad ossidarsi, percio' e' piu' facile da conservare
- Come ha detto Bird, la psilocibina non e' solubile in molti solventi. Percio' alcuni consigliano (in caso di estrazione) una a/b per promuovere la conversione in psilocina e quindi minimizzare le perdite
- La conversione, oltre a una soluzione acida, richiede calore (40')
- E' la psilocina ossidandosi a dare la tipica colorazione blu
- La psilocibina quando ingerita viene trasformata dal corpo in psilocina e questo probabilmente provoca le sensazioni fisiche piu' marcate (vedi funghi con basso contenuto di psilocibina)
benzyme a dit:ragabr a dit:The first time SWIM attempted this, she acidified with citric acid, with the thoughts of having psilocin instead. Does this mean exposure to light has degraded the product, or is it unlikely the citric acid actually converted the psilocybin to psilocin?benzyme a dit:it isn't like psilocin, which has that unprotected hydroxy group; so it isn't degraded by light or air. you don't even need inert atmosphere to extract it.
there seems to be a lot of unresolved questions regarding the treatment of psilocybin with acid, though the (pKa) data with respect to the phosphoryl group suggests that it may be subjected to different charge states without being removed. the acid treatment would likely require moderate heat for any conversion to occur; of course, this should be in inert atmosphere, and in some form of dim lighting (ex. red light)
da https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=27807Infundibulum a dit:Dephosphorylation of psilocybin is required for the resulting psilocin to cross the blood-brain-barrier and exert its effects in teh mind. Dephosphorylation happens somewhere in body, which can be the stomach with its low pH as Mindlusion said and/or other places, maybe liver? blood? etc.Mr.Peabody a dit:I thought that psilocybin was converted to psilocin upon crossing the blood-brain barrier, anyway. Is that outdated information?
If it's true, is there something standing in the way of smoking psilocybin? It seems like a more likely candidate due to its stability.
So it is wrong to think that by smoking psilocybin you can get psilocin effects. Our knowledge so far points that one needs to smoke FB psilocin for effects.
Yes, acid seems to be a crucial catalyst for the dephosphorylation. I once tried to extract psilocin from the psilocybin-high containing p.semilanceatas adding a dephosphorylation step as per the usual method (soak the dried mushroom mass in water making sure final pH is adjusted to 4 using acetic acid, let in room temperature 1h, then heat up at 70 C for 10min, chilled and filter out the pieces) but I got nothing after the basifying @ pH=9 and pulling with dcm...Mindlusion a dit:psilocybin is dephosphorylated through hydrolysis, which occurs much faster at low pH, like in your stomach.
We should not forget that it is still debatable whether psilocybin dephosphorylation is caused by low pH alone and/or whether mushroom enzymes play an important part in the process. Is there anyone that has demonstrated that pure psilocybin (not aqueous mushroom extract) can dephosphorylate by acid alone?
da https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6329Infundibulum a dit:Finallly, re to the psilocybin->psinocin conversion, we are not sure enough of how psilocybin dephosphorylates to psilocin. Incubation with strong acid at hot temperature seems to do it, or that's what anecdotal reports say. At least this is the implication of a mushroom tea with a dash of lemon that comes on faster. Or is it because the lemon tea does not dephosphorylate but instead extracts the actives, thus making it faster to come?
Mushroom extracts with strong acetic acid definitely does it, as some papers describe but again this may be due to a combination of enzymes that get extracted from mushrooms and/or the low pH. Stomach pH is low (around 2) it may dephopshorylate psilocybin; Or it may not, and psilocybin is dephosphorylated by phosphatase enzymes in the body. Or a combination of both? I may be wrong on some of my dephosphorylation assertions as it has been some time since I read articles about this issue. Please chime in if something is wrong or needs amendment!
da https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=17734benzyme a dit:40 C is no problem with psilocybin. I was probably thinking about the acidic conversion/extraction of psilocin when I posted that. acid-catalyzed dephosphorylation requires low heat. a hot water bath, in general, helps increase solubility of alkaloids in solution
da https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=426169ron a dit:benzyme a dit:yes
in the end, it's psilocin which acts centrally anyway. it's 1.4x as potent as psilocybin (by weight)
by doing a/b, one is essentially doing the same job as our phosphatase enzymes, which convert psilocybin to psilocin.
That leads to difference absorption rates for psilocin and psilocybin and because of that, they have noticeably different effects. Psilocybin sticks around in the body for a while before being converted to psilocin and during that time period it is active and produces bodily effects that differ from psilocin. Psilocybin can’t enter the brain at all until it’s converted to psilocin, while as soon as psilocin enters your body it can enter the brain. That delay causes a slight change in their effects.
SWIM has had both psilocin and psilocybin in the past. He had pure psilocybin pills and converted some to psilocin. The effects between the psilocybin pills and the psilocin were quite noticeable and cleary different. Psilocybin has far more of a body high and is less psychedelic. Some people got nausea from psilocybin but not from psilocin. I’d say that the effects are about 90% the same though. They are very similar. But the body load of psilocybin is where the real difference lies.
It’s always best to convert psilocybin to psilocin prior to ingestion. It will come on faster, be more hallucinogenic, and have much less body load.
Quindi:
- La psilocibina e' molto piu' stabile rispetto alla psilocina e non tende ad ossidarsi, percio' e' piu' facile da conservare
- Come ha detto Bird, la psilocibina non e' solubile in molti solventi. Percio' alcuni consigliano (in caso di estrazione) una a/b per promuovere la conversione in psilocina e quindi minimizzare le perdite
- La conversione, oltre a una soluzione acida, richiede calore (40')
- E' la psilocina ossidandosi a dare la tipica colorazione blu
- La psilocibina quando ingerita viene trasformata dal corpo in psilocina e questo probabilmente provoca le sensazioni fisiche piu' marcate (vedi funghi con basso contenuto di psilocibina)