Do all hallucinogenics cause anxiety?

[digdug]

To clarify the title, I am referring to those from the tryptamine and phenethylamine lot. I ask this because I badly want to experience again the kind of hallucinogenic activity I remember from taking LSD several years prior, but I truly NEVER, EVER want to deal with the anxiety and depressive thoughts that I felt on it. I had done LSD a few times which were good experiences, of course, until it become truly mentally disturbing the last time I did it. Ever since then I've been scared to try any hallucinogen for fear of coming even close to repeating it.

However, reading about experiences with the 2-C's, it seems that there is a different psychological effect to be had, at least with lower doses. People seem to report more of a giggly, giddy feeling (with a touch of the empathy). While I did feel rapturously joyful on LSD, there was always an underlying tension, even in the good parts, that I was riding on the "edge" of something (crumbling mentally, perhaps?). There was something so raw about it - made worse by the insufferable length of the trip - that affected me a great deal. Spending the day after drooling while staring off into space, feeling like a jackhammer was taken to my brain, is an awful comedown to recover from. I like to introspect, but not at the speed and ruthlessness which LSD seemed to force.

Strangely enough, the best experiences I've had with ANY drug - other than MDMA, of course - were using moderate-to-high levels of DXM. I absolutely LOVED the dissociative state. I was truly shocked to read on several forums later on that people found it to be more disconcerting than LSD and/or a generally unpleasant, dirty experience. Not at all! I loved the body high, the marked antidepressant effect/euhporia, the afterglow - listening to Enya while floating in different directions (by mentally willing it) remains one of the peak experiences I've had with psychoactives.

An interesting thing about the disassociative state I noticed - and which may explain its appeal to me - was that, in direct opposition to my LSD experiences, there was *absolutely* no anxiety or fear. In fact, the DXM was so calming that even the thought of death no longer seemed scary. Same with Ketamine. Again, I never went Gracie and Zarkov-esque with dosage, but I did some solid exploring. 8)

I do want to try the 2C's, but I'm wondering if I'm in for the same awful feelings that I had on LSD. What do you guys think? Is it a different experience? Care to compare LSD to some of these phenethylamine compounds?

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Forkbender]

Short answer: the drugs don't cause the anxiety, it is all in your head.

I think 2c-b might be a good option for you. I hear that it is less psychologically demanding than LSD or shrooms. Maybe mescaline is too, but I'm not sure. 2c-b is very visual, though, from what I hear.

 

[Mr.Smith]

.

 

[endlessness]

agree that in the end its all in your head.. some people dont get anxiety at all..

LSD may be a difficult experience for some people because it is over-analytical and lasts a long time. People have difficulty relaxing and sleeping and the next day are tired. For other people they can work with it good

Mescaline seems to have indeed a greater potential for good trips as opposed to bad, granted you do take care of 'set and setting' obviously.

maybe smoked dmt, due to the sheer intensity and brevity of the experience, does not give rise to any longer bad trip or depression or whatever. It just overwhelms you, anxiety disapears. On the beginning theres always the nervousness before smoking but after you got no choice but to ride the rolercoaster and be brought back in a few minutes.

low dose mushrooms may also work good... low (or high) dose mushrooms with dmt smoked at the peak is the best

 

[poisoninthestain]

I have horrible anxiety to the point where i had to stop using most drugs except alcohol and opium(go figure) for a time being... my mom has really bad bad anxiety and i believe it's somewhat inherited...


....i really do believe that if any drug were to precipitate anxiety it'd be the tryptamines...

...and i agree with everyone else. it's all in your head but for me it's hard to get over myself.

I really liked mr. smith's response about adrenaline...i never looked at it that way before.

...anxiety is a bummer but in time i believe it's a completely curable syndrome.

 

[digdug]

I should clarify. The anxiety while problematic is usually a result of the a spiral of depressive thoughts that come from the over-analytical behavior I engage in when on Acid. For some reason, when I get over-analytical, the only thought pattern or "realizations" that emerge are depressive ones - self-defeatist, self-hatred and anger at my perceived failures - that sort of thing.

If it is all inside me, why does this not happen on high doses of DXM and Ketamine? MDMA? I don't see LSD as "neutral" or simply a "catalyst" without any influence on where thought patterns may be taken. MDMA is argued to be even more neutral and subtle in its effect, but the effect is a guaranteed positive every time! How is this reconciled by the "all in your head" theory?

 

[Mr.Smith]

We are all wired into a survival trip now. No more of the speed that fueled the sixties.Uppers are going out of style.This was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary’s trip. He crashed around America selling “consciousness expansion

 

[GOD]

I totaly disagree with what was said about T.Leary . He was aware of the posibilitys and the risks and the people he gave trips to didnt have bad trips .

Whos the quote from ?

 

[Mr.Smith]

I totaly disagree with what was said about T.Leary . He was aware of the posibilitys and the risks and the people he gave trips to didnt have bad trips .

Whos the quote from ?

Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing ..

 

[toogoodforyou]

Timothy Leary has described the common visions (including the anxious ones) people get during the LSD trip.... He's given specific instructions which are to be read / heard when you get that scary vision during your trip. Although some of the wording he has used is very wierd.... it might be helpful with minor changes.


http://www.erowid.org/library/books_onl ... ence.shtml

Read this book online here.

 

[digdug]

How will 2C-C feel? Seems to be a gentle beast.

 

[Affirmatory]

"I had done LSD a few times which were good experiences, of course, until it become truly mentally disturbing..."

I can relate to this. It's as if it lures you in at first with pretty colours, revelations, and euphoria, before ruthlessly exposing you to some scary possibilities, showing you the worst sides of yourself.

This is why acid changes people (positively or negatively), you won't quickly forget the mental scoldings your brain gives you for those 12 - 16 hours. The trick is to try to gain something positive from it. If you never thought anything bad about yourself would you ever change yourself for the better? The amount of introspection from one good acid trip is comparable to many years of normal living. If you have a long spiral of negative thoughts about yourself that is potential for a long spiral of improvement!

Even if it is about something impossible to change this intense experience should teach you how to not worry about it. If lsd shows you perceived failures you have the choice: to believe that it is a failure and decide to learn from it, or to believe it's just a drug messing with your thoughts. Not all acid-thoughts are useful just like other thoughts. Each time you have a trip like this wait until you are at peace with everything acid told you about yourself, until you have decided what parts of it to believe and have made any possible improvements before you trip again.

If you don't want intense introspection do not take lsd. These things don't happen to you on ketamine and dxm because all they do is let you escape for a while and rarely offer anything constructive. They're disassociative, good for escaping, in my opinion lsd, shrooms, 2cb, are the opposite. And MDMA is a substance which you learn nothing from after the first few times, except that you are not truly happy without drugs.

Unfortunately there really isn't alot to learn from 'positive experiences' with drugs compared to 'negative experiences'. I think if you don't think very scary negative things about yourself on lsd you are either absolutely perfect and can not improve(impossible), or you are taking an underdose.

This is all just my personal opinion there are many ways to look at it.

I am very tired now. Time to sleep. Peace.

 

[poisoninthestain]

affirmatory...that was simply awesome. best post i've seen in some time. i completely agree.

 

[Brugmansia]

If it is all inside me, why does this not happen on high doses of DXM and Ketamine? MDMA? I don't see LSD as "neutral" or simply a "catalyst" without any influence on where thought patterns may be taken. MDMA is argued to be even more neutral and subtle in its effect, but the effect is a guaranteed positive every time! How is this reconciled by the "all in your head" theory?

The LSD experience is an experience with decreased levels of defenses which implicates the navigation of your self gets more space to act in a way through choice if being underlying to the effect. You have to give direction to certain sensations manually (Which is not prefered by some). It is done automatically without having to think about it on sober levels and many other drugs. The stream of sensory is fully absorpted and can't be ignored so easy with LSD. So the right inset for communication with your self needs to be found.

MDMA doesn't decrease this field so there's no need for the right thought activity to maintain proper navigation. But it does stimulate serotonine massively purely through an overactivity of neurotransmitters. As a result of being completely statisfied with your state of being as in "I am truly complete", there comes this reaction in caring for other people, seeing beauty and brightness in everything since your self beliefs it no longer needs any work on itself as a sculpture.

The empathy is because you want to pass on this 'perfectness' to other people as well. But it doesn't affect the sense of the actual self. It pulls a fake perfect sheet over it. Once the perfect sheet is gone, the self hasn't had any lessons in manual navigation when it comes to certain sensations. But the demonstration of the state which you have sensed, might be a glorious start and inspiration in changing your behaviour so that it lays in line with who you truly are.

It up on the individual how he handles the inner steering wheel with LSD. Which is where Fork was aiming at with 'it's all in your head'. With a drug like MDMA, you're more depending on the neureological actions that your brain are taking. With a drug like cocaine, the self has no influence at all on what's happening.

For me, the effects of Ketamine are so strong when it comes to the anaesthetic side, that the internal dream world I experience is accompanied by intense serenity and everything is so ground off that there's nothing to worry. It's like being in a dream theather, with merely a consciousness and the world I'm going through is guaranteed woolly.

With LSD or shrooms, if you're trying to bend the effect by yourself, rather than finding the proper inset for the phase you're facing, you'll go 'insane'.

But 2CB answers to your desires in dosages of <24 mg's. I could even turn it off almost entirely at the peak point, and when being alone I could make it very powerful with a towel over my head. Very colourful and extremly soft. Not racing at all.

I suggest you a dose of 12 mg's 2CB, you probably won't even get much out of this that looks like anything psychedelic. It is a little bit dreamy (like weed), very calm (you may yawn) softness, warmness and in the mood to cuddle or having sex with no speedy feelings. Though a powerful aphrodite. In higher dosages, it is still much easier to remain calm with lineair thoughts than with shrooms or acid. There's much less pressure on the thoughts, and they can be dropped more easy. Over 30 mg's it gets resemblances with LSD or shrooms. For those who known theirself on tryptamines, still milder and controleable than LSD/Shrooms.

Affirmatory had a good input as well about how to climb over certain encountered hills.

 

[Psychoid]

I had trips that started really good, and stayed that way until the end. I had a trip that started really good, then went bad at the end. I had trips that started really bad and then became incredibly awesome. I had a trip where I felt bad from the beginning to the end.

Set, setting, expectations, preparation and what you do while tripping all have a big influence on the trip.

As Fork said: "the drugs don't cause the anxiety, it is all in your head."


P.S.: I have experience only with shrooms, so I can't talk for LSD or other tryptamines.

 

[GOD]

"I think if you don't think very scary negative things about yourself on lsd you are either absolutely perfect and can not improve(impossible), or you are taking an underdose. "

Everyone whos healthy gets "negative" thoughts sometimes on trips . The thing is not to believe them , not to dwell on them . Take them lightly and know that you arent perfect . Dont condem yourself . Remember that your on a trip and that your seeing things diferently . Remember that when you come down those thoughts wont have the same weight . If you always try to do your best and be fair in life then even on a trip you will remember it and can rationalise with yourself , tell yourself "Hey , i`m not a bad person and i have no reason to be afraid , its just the trip and i`m not looking at things in a balanced way" . Then change the set and setting by doing something else .

 

[phatass]

2C-x products maybe apart from 2C-E are far less introspective than LSD, a lot less of a mental trip and a more amped up/wired, but very visual....

the more you think about bad trippin the more likely it is to have one but just remember its a drug and it will wear off if you get anxious... also i lke having a couple of valiums handy when i'm taking big doses of psychs...

 

[Crimzen]

what happens if you ARE a bad person
like what if a complete asshole takes acid
do you think they'd see the error of their ways?

or what about like murderers and stuff? im sure if you'd done terrible things they'd come back to really bash you during a trip right?

 

[time2poop]

what happens if you ARE a bad person
like what if a complete asshole takes acid
do you think they'd see the error of their ways?

or what about like murderers and stuff? im sure if you'd done terrible things they'd come back to really bash you during a trip right?

depends on where their mental state is. i would think that the nature of psychedelics would tend to lean you that direction, yes, but that definitely wouldn't hold true to everyone. when people are tripping they are usually more open and susceptible to accepting ideas their ego would normally push out, others close themselves off and experience fear, aside from that you'd be surprised at just how lost some people are. in order for them to "see the light" they'd have to first learn the error of their ways, some people are so lost that they are completely oblivious. so, IMHO i think the answer to this question is that if they are not aware of the error in their ways then without a guide they probably have no hope in seeing their wrongdoing. people who know better might very well succumb to the ego loss if given a large enough dose in the proper atmosphere and perhaps part of a treatment plan. people who "just don't give a fuck" and believe that about themselves above all else, are typically very close minded and will fight the ego death and expansion of their mind with every thread of energy they have or perhaps ultimately just turn violent and freak out as part of the fight/flight response of the ego. they would believe the "self preservation" of the ego to be as important as their own life and would fight it as such.

that's what i tend to believe anyway.

 

[phatass]

i don't think its the drugs that cause anxiety (apart from a few) but rather the person who is taking them