Decriminalize Drug Use

[Dr. Leospace]

Decriminalize Drug Use

Pubdate: Sun, 04 Feb 2007
Source: News-Press (Fort Myers, FL)

For 40 of my 65 years I've conducted an informal survey among law enforcement acquaintances including active or retired FBI agents, large and small town beat cops, detectives, etc.

I've asked over 25 of them just one question: "In your opinion, what percentage of violent crime in this country is narcotics-related?"

Not surprisingly, the lowest number I heard was 50 percent, the highest 90 percent, and the average well above 75 percent. Thus the solution to your escalating crime problem.

Why not decriminalize drugs?

Am I advocating drug use? Absolutely not, but the facts are clear that we have numerous users who will go to any lengths to get their fixes.

Prohibition seemed to spawn excessive violence and once repealed the problem dissipated.

Do we still have alcoholics? Of course and we'll still have drug users, but if the money is taken out of it, i.e., drug users pay a nominal amount for drugs, there will be no market for the stuff much to the chagrin of Colombia, Afghanistan and our local meth labs, etc.

Will this proposal ever fly? Probably not in my lifetime for the following reasons:

1. Politically it would be viewed as instant suicide with the opposition screaming that we're advocating more drug use. Likewise the solution is SIMPLE and that won't get you points in the public arena.

2. Law enforcement wouldn't want it, i.e., diminished crime means less jobs.

3. Religious conservatives wouldn't be happy, claiming that they can rid all people of drug and alcohol addictions which just ain't gonna happen.

The bottom line is we definitely aren't winning the war on drugs and the reason is there's just too much profit to be made.

If you posit that the average person doesn't want to be beholden to substances that are addictive, and posit that a small percentage of the population will always be drug users, this solution appears to be a practical and money saving idea.

Children born today in the more impoverished areas ( especially boys ) have three ways out. One is to be an elite athlete and maybe make it professionally ( very long odds ).

Two is to study hard in arguably inferior schools as a means of escape ( not cool by today's standards ).

Three is to follow the drug culture, i.e., big profits with big risks but definitely cool and exciting.

The problem with number three is obviously the slammer which far too many seem to end up in.

Tom Buehler

 

[kronik]

So true.

When you think about the organized, violent crime, wasted taxpayer dollars, and abject human misery that the war on drugs has caused.

It's worse than Vietnam, worse than Iraq. It's a war that the government wages against its own people and the rest of the world. It's a war that funds terrorists and warlords. It's a war that violates a person's right to ingest whatever they want. It's a war that crowds our prisons with cannabis users. It's a war that perpetuates false propaganda about the "dangers" of casual drug use to citizens and their children. It's a war that costs $600 per second to wage. It's a war that creates ghettos and tears entire communities apart.

And all for what?

Some puritanical morality? Bloated government? Racism?

 

[soknardalr]

In my opinion, it’s a catch 22 situation, it has plenty of positives and plenty of negatives.
No matter what you legalise, there will always be a black market where people can get it cheaper or stronger variations and strains. Its like firearms, many countries legalise certain types, but why have an automatic pistol for top dollar prices when you can get an AK47 much cheaper and without the hassle of a license and tracking on the weapon's serial number?
You also have to look at the fact that if we stocked harder drugs in every day drug stores, how long would it be before people got fed up with paying for it and started to raid stores and warehouses? Then there is the risk of drug fuelled crime, imagine if every one had access to such drugs as PCP? You can't honestly be telling me that’s a good thing?

The black market will always exist and people will always find a way to undercut the general market.

 

[kronik]

There will always be negatives to a legalized market. But when you consider the alternative to legalization, it's clear that legalization is the right thing to do. Caveat emptor to those that want a stronger drug being sold by some guy in a dark alley when you can get a weaker dose at your local smartshop.

Drugs will always be available to those that want them. When there is a demand, there is always a supply. I cannot emphasize that enough. Drug will exist in society as long as we are subject to human nature. Legalization would change the supply from criminals unconcerned with the safety of their consumers to pharmaceutical companies that... well... :roll: at least they're somewhat accountable.

 

[Guest]

one thing is certain: we don't live in a democracy if we can't choose what to take and not to take. i can't go to a local shop and buy some heroin, even i have money and will to take it. i don't say that drugs shouldn't be legalized, but guess what...they exist, and everyone can buy and take them, and the only thing one has to do is to talk to someone who knows someone...all laws are written with one and only goal: money. drugs are more profitable if they are sold this way, and is better to all of THEM if we buy drugs with (sometimes) unknown trace elements, and pay twice the price of it, than it is to buy certified drugs, who were payed at a reasonable price, and only a part of that would be for the goverment's safebox.


like bill hicks used to say: "goverments don't legalize drugs because they would stop selling it!"

 

[alice]

SO... WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO ABOUT IT????

alice

 

[amoak]

In Portugal all drugs are decriminalize since july 2001 , i can't understand why countrys like Usa and England don't have done it already , is really a retard democracy , and still call it the country of freedom

 

[sychopk]

To answer Alice's question saying "So what are we going to do about it?"

I really don't know. Is there any way to fight back legaly and have a chance for it to really work?? I want to fight for what I believe in. Be it a nonviolent strategy or a violent one. Is there any alternative other than continue living like this??

I really want to know.

 

[soknardalr]

In Portugal all drugs are decriminalize since july 2001 , i can't understand why countrys like Usa and England don't have done it already , is really a retard democracy , and still call it the country of freedom

As I once wrote in a piece of poetry; "Through the transparency of democracy, we find only hypocrisy"

 

[ProStoner]

SO... WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO ABOUT IT????

alice

well, maybe all we can do right now is wait..
and slowly convince more people of these facts
untill there is a group big enough to really do something about it..
cause right now at this moment , its a war we can't win

 

[amoak]

SO... WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO ABOUT IT????

alice

.
cause right now at this moment , its a war we can't win

Why?
is still not decriminalized in netherlands , or just weed and hash?
im talking only about drugs consuption because in Portugal even heroin is legal to consume but not to sell , you can have 3 or 5 single doses per person.

 

[JayBomb]

The thing I know the OP is overlooking, and I will assume no one else pointed out (because I've never heard this argument in terms of this subject) is the assumption that we, in America or anywhere else really hold a "free market".

I do agree that it should go along with privilege, as do cars but I do not believe it will make it that much better. I also believe that if less money was pumped into military spending, or any money was really taxed upon our rich-ass-shit 1% then we could easily spend the appropriate amounts on social programs to aid and even cure these social problems that influence and can even "cause" drug use.

Wouldn't that be smarter? Thank you, lineage of jackasses, for shitting all over FDR, Eisenhower, and other great American leaders by ripping off the little guy.

Drugs as privilege? sure. However THAT is not going to cure a damn thing; social/political responsibility to the people (yes, your own responsibility to yourself and your fellow citizens) would better solve the many problems you propose and the related problems you neglected...

*however I do agree that my stance, stated here, was better held before the idiotic invasion of Iraq... say the dipshit, bullshit years of Clinton*

 

[sychopk]

I do agree that it should go along with privilege, as do cars but I do not believe it will make it that much better.

It'll be better for me because then I won't have to look over my shoulder ten times before scoring some. [joking :lol: ]

Peace of mind that's all I ask for.

 

[HeartCore]

im talking only about drugs consuption because in Portugal even heroin is legal to consume but not to sell , you can have 3 or 5 single doses per person.

Thats a bad solution because this way heroin is still interesting for criminals. Whats good about it, is that drugaddicts, dont go to prison.

However, solutions like this will not solve the problem. Just like decriminalizing small sales of cannabis in Holland didnt solve the problem. Total legalisation is the only way to go.

Another fair solution would be to schedule alcohol, sugar and tobacco because these drugs are legal but way more destructive than cannabis, psilocybin, DMT etc..

 

[amoak]

im talking only about drugs consuption because in Portugal even heroin is legal to consume but not to sell , you can have 3 or 5 single doses per person.

Thats a bad solution because this way heroin is still interesting for criminals. Whats good about it, is that drugaddicts, dont go to prison.

I agree with you HeartCore legalization will be better maybe but this law is only to protect drug users and to give freedom of choice to portuguese people.

About the criminal , i don't think a heroin dealer is a criminal and any drugs dealer.

And if all drugs become legal they will become sooooooo expensive as hash and weed in holland , so maybe is best like this for us , and like this i can make easy money without need to pay impost to the state

 

[HeartCore]

And if all drugs become legal they will become sooooooo expensive as hash and weed in holland , so maybe is best like this for us , and like this i can make easy money without need to pay impost to the state

This is not true (I'm truly sorry ). See the prices for hash and weed are insane in Holland NOT because its legal but because its still illegal.

A coffeeshop is allowed to sell cannabis but a coffeeshop is not allowed to buy stock. See the problem? So cannabis users are let of the hook in one way but are still paying overpriced cannabis because criminals control the market.

The cost price of cannabis is very low, I know that because I grow my own smoke

 

[amoak]

And if all drugs become legal they will become sooooooo expensive as hash and weed in holland , so maybe is best like this for us , and like this i can make easy money without need to pay impost to the state

This is not true (I'm truly sorry ). See the prices for hash and weed are insane in Holland NOT because its legal but because its still illegal.

A coffeeshop is allowed to sell cannabis but a coffeeshop is not allowed to buy stock. See the problem? So cannabis users are let of the hook in one way but are still paying overpriced cannabis because criminals control the market.

The cost price of cannabis is very low, I know that because I grow my own smoke

ok ,I thought that weed and hash was totally legal in holland i didn't know about that law.
I wrote this because i was in Amsterdam in August 2003 and i found weed much expensive but also very good of course( average of 12 euros 2 grams in 2003 ) , but i don't know the street prices in holland .
Hash in portugal is 2 euros per gram , or 200 euros for 250 grams , in marroco , 0,20 to 0.60 a gram of 0.0 quality


Why they can't buy stock? they have to produce it ? and can you make home grow in your country?

 

[silv]

And if all drugs become legal they will become sooooooo expensive as hash and weed in holland , so maybe is best like this for us , and like this i can make easy money without need to pay impost to the state

This is not true (I'm truly sorry ). See the prices for hash and weed are insane in Holland NOT because its legal but because its still illegal.

A coffeeshop is allowed to sell cannabis but a coffeeshop is not allowed to buy stock. See the problem? So cannabis users are let of the hook in one way but are still paying overpriced cannabis because criminals control the market.

The cost price of cannabis is very low, I know that because I grow my own smoke

ok ,I thought that weed and hash was totally legal in holland i didn't know about that law.
I wrote this because i was in Amsterdam in August 2003 and i found weed much expensive but also very good of course( average of 12 euros 2 grams in 2003 ) , but i don't know the street prices in holland .
Hash in portugal is 2 euros per gram , or 200 euros for 250 grams , in marroco , 0,20 to 0.60 a gram of 0.0 quality


Why they can't buy stock? they have to produce it ? and can you make home grow in your country?

well the problem with their stock is the following: The coffeshop is allowed to have 500g's of cannabis (in whatever form, and usually they have more afaik). However the problem lies in how they get their stock because people are only allowed to have 5gs on them. What follows is that technically a coffeshop owner has to go 100 times to a person who has an illegal ammount of hash and should be in jail according to these rules to get his stock.
I think if you get the crappier weed in holland it can go for a bit less, but generally in the neighbourhood of 5€/gram is a normal coffeshop price i think.
On growing: You are allowed to grow a maximum of 5 plants, however ofcourse when you're harvesting 5 plants can give WAY more than the 5gs you're allowed to have so it's a very nice and fucked up system that needs legalization badly so you get farmers delivering weed by the thousands of kilo's at a time, thus pressing the price.
About the quality, if I compare it to the weed I've smoked in america (which was only once and you probably have better) it's like the difference between juice and wodka in potency (maybe a bad example but it makes the difference clear imo )
edit: dutch being the better type of weed.

 

[HeartCore]

On growing: You are allowed to grow a maximum of 5 plants, however ofcourse when you're harvesting 5 plants can give WAY more than the 5gs you're allowed to have so it's a very nice and fucked up system that needs legalization badly so you get farmers delivering weed by the thousands of kilo's at a time, thus pressing the price.

This is also not true (and I'm still truly fucking sorry lol).

Growing cannabis is not legal, not even 5 plants. If you grow <=5 plants on your balcony and someone complains because of the smell, police will come and take your plants. You wont get a fine if you voluntarily give up your plants, but you loose your plants.

Anything above 5 plants is you loose your plants and get a fine.

So you are always fucked....

They have also a way to determine how professional you grow. Indoor lighting gives you a lot of pro points. Charcoal filter also. So get this, you want to get rid of the neighbours complaints and you move your 5 plants inside, you place indoor ligting since they dont grow from shit alone and you place a charcoal filter. While you are at it, you take one plant out and put it aside to make cuttings.

You can now be considered a professional grower, your plants and all your equipment will be taken away, not voluntarily and you get a fine.

This is how I understand it works currently. There is a lot of flakey info out there thats being copied by ignorant people, not on purpose persé.

The dutch policy is shit

 

[silv]

On growing: You are allowed to grow a maximum of 5 plants, however ofcourse when you're harvesting 5 plants can give WAY more than the 5gs you're allowed to have so it's a very nice and fucked up system that needs legalization badly so you get farmers delivering weed by the thousands of kilo's at a time, thus pressing the price.

This is also not true (and I'm still truly fucking sorry lol).

Growing cannabis is not legal, not even 5 plants. If you grow <=5 plants on your balcony and someone complains because of the smell, police will come and take your plants. You wont get a fine if you voluntarily give up your plants, but you loose your plants.

Anything above 5 plants is you loose your plants and get a fine.

So you are always fucked....

They have also a way to determine how professional you grow. Indoor lighting gives you a lot of pro points. Charcoal filter also. So get this, you want to get rid of the neighbours complaints and you move your 5 plants inside, you place indoor ligting since they dont grow from shit alone and you place a charcoal filter. While you are at it, you take one plant out and put it aside to make cuttings.

You can now be considered a professional grower, your plants and all your equipment will be taken away, not voluntarily and you get a fine.

This is how I understand it works currently. There is a lot of flakey info out there thats being copied by ignorant people, not on purpose persé.

The dutch policy is shit

Interesting, the thing is though afaik the dutch policy mainly is very shit because it's so unclear. The police can do a whole lot to you even for smoking on the street (correct me if I'm wrong but i think any type of drug usage in public space can get you a lil in trouble) but what do they usually do and how strict they are is mostly pure luck from what I've heard.