Dangers of Cocaine...?

[Goran.Hrsak]

interesting goran
I didnt know MDMA could be so bad...
but u are talking about longer term use right ?
about some things that is..

.Next one Esctasy disable neurons(one apsolut number) for 4 years,chronic expousore makes holes in your brains-disabled neurons who have little chanse to be reactivated. :!:

 

[HeartCore]

I heard there is some kind of membrane on your synapses that mdma nicely peels away. Anti mdma people say this is proof of braindamage, pro mdma people we have not evidence at all that the absence of that membrane has any negative impact on our brain.

Personally, I remember how I feel after a night on mdma and will keep to mushrooms and such

 

[Rutger]

Think a few times a year can do no harm. Think that after a good night drinking a lot more is damaged in your brain (or at least it feels like it).

But yes shrooms and so are much more milder on the body, never had any problems after mushrooms only when in combination with drinking.

 

[tryptonaut]

Think a few times a year can do no harm. Think that after a good night drinking a lot more is damaged in your brain (or at least it feels like it).

You're probably right. I've done xtc at least 50 times in my life and it hasn't hurt me so far (it's now a few years later and I'm fine).
However I stopped using it when I once used 10 pills from Sunday to Saturday and after that felt really bad and weird for the whole next week... with alcohol I think the hangover would not have been that long, it doesn't mess as much with your serotonine.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

Guys we all fell right now and for next 10 to 25 years but your brain is not all in use couse some of the cells are replace tools-spare equipment when we are going to be old.BUT IF WE SPEND OUR SPARE PARTS KNOW HOW WE ARE GOING TO LOOK OLD.This is the point.I would be rather dead than some demon eat my soul with alchaimer or demencion deasise. :roll: Semper fi

 

[jilola]

Ecstasy do same damage to body as cocain but there is many other shit with it,

Err? based on what study?
What is the damage pure MDMA does? Quotes?
What is the similar damage pure cocaine does? Quotes?

The rest of the post where that came from is fairly acurate as far as I can determine.
Until this day I have not seen one scientifically credible article stating MDMA has 1)any significant adverse effects on a healthy person save dehydration/hyponatremia and 2) any study at all equating the effect of MDMA and cocaine in any form.

MAOI's are very bad unless you know exactly what you are doing. Serioisly if you decide to combine a MAOI with ANY drug read and read and read on the interactions because they can kill you.

Any manner of outrageous overuse of anything wil harm you.

Jouni

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

Contemporary in vivo brain imaging techniques confer the ability to assess brain function and structure noninvasively, and thereby can yield information to help guide the development of new treatments for substance abuse. The advantages and limitations of the major imaging modalities (positron emission tomography [PET], single photon emission computed tomography [SPECT], structural and functional magnetic resonance imaging [MRI, fMRI, respectively]) are discussed with respect to their applicability to research on cocaine abuse. The effects of acute administration of cocaine have been studied using PET and fMRI, with PET manifesting decreases in cerebral glucose metabolism and blood flow, and fMRI revealing regional effects that are correlated temporally with subjective responses. In addition, studies of drug abusers, abstinent from cocaine for various lengths of time, have revealed persistent differences in brain function and structure, especially in the frontal cortex, when compared with parameters in the brains of subjects who do not use illicit drugs of abuse. PET studies also have revealed abnormalities in markers for dopaminergic and opioid systems during withdrawal from cocaine. Moreover, studies of cue-elicited craving for cocaine demonstrate a connection between the response to drug-related stimuli and neural elements of cognition and emotion. The future directions of in vivo brain imaging to identify functional and structural alterations in the brains of cocaine abusers are discussed in relation to the development of medications to treat cocaine dependence.SEMPER FI 8)

 

[Scinet]

interesting goran
I didnt know MDMA could be so bad...
but u are talking about longer term use right ?
about some things that is..

.Next one Esctasy disable neurons(one apsolut number) for 4 years,chronic expousore makes holes in your brains-disabled neurons who have little chanse to be reactivated. :!:

No. MDMA does not cause holes in the brain. This study was funded with anti-drug money and done by an anti-drug researcher. The way the images that show holes as a result of ecstasy use were made was that they set the scanner to a higher threshold so that only peaks of brain activity were showing instead of the activity in the entire brain. In other words, not only bad science but completely forged too.

------

Guys, instead of reading this thread and using it as a source, please read the Erowid MDMA vault for up-to-date and accurate info about MDMA.

The very best way of using ecstasy if you are unsure of the side-effects but still want to do it, is to use the following guidelines:
1) Roll only once a month. Every two weeks may be okay, but is kind of pushing it. Every week is a bad idea, and several days in a row just a waste of pills.

2) Find out what's in them pills. Check out Pillreports, Dancesafe and all the other ecstasy pill identification sites to get an idea of what the pill you just got is probably composed of, or order a testing kit from Dancesafe.

3) Keep abreast of new studies, but remember to check out who made them. Ecstasy has been the target of numerous slander campaigns, and if it were as toxic as close to the establishment research sources have reported, all 1980s users of E would already be demented, deranged or dead. Remember, MDMA has been used in the club scene since the early 80's and we have yet to see a rest home for E victims, so the possible bad side-effects are not widespread.

[edit]
This is the kind of shit that happens with government grants:
Third, in a paper published in 2002 in the prestigous journal Science, one of the key ecstasy brain damage researchers, George Ricaurte, reported that "a single dose of ecstasy" could cause Parkinson's. This 'fact' was trumpeted by virtually every news outlet in the U.S. and was big news. Unfortunately for Dr. Ricaurte, it was soon discovered that he had accidentally given the monkeys methamphetamine instead of MDMA and methamphetamine is a known dopamine neurotoxin. It is important to note, however, that methamphetamine has NOT been found to cause Parkinson's disease, further damaging Ricaurte's credibility.

-from the Erowid MDMA FAQ.

Note that the man is called a "key ecstasy brain damage researcher", which is a nice way of trying to convey the message that E causes brain damage, and the only debateable bit about that is "how much?" Truth is, these guys don't really seem to know that much, not because they haven't studied, but because they do what science should not: they have already decided what E does to a brain, and now they're just desperately looking for something to prove their viewpoint.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

I did not men -holes in brain just inactive or low active brain cells.This can be descrbed as hole-couple years ago I have seen E vs normal mind on Oprah-world greatest neurologist show brain that is on E cronic-and you can see that that cells doesnt consume oxygen as normal cells-something about 30% of 100%.I belive in that couse Oprah doesnt do shows without superior test,new tech,Evrybody knows Oprah-maybe you have seen that episode :?:

 

[Scinet]

I did not men -holes in brain just inactive or low active brain cells.This can be descrbed as hole-couple years ago I have seen E vs normal mind on Oprah-world greatest neurologist show brain that is on E cronic-and you can see that that cells doesnt consume oxygen as normal cells-something about 30% of 100%.I belive in that couse Oprah doesnt do shows without superior test,new tech,Evrybody knows Oprah-maybe you have seen that episode :?:

Aaahahahhaaahaa! ...sorry.

Oprah is not a valid source for anything. See the "A Million Little Pieces" book fallout for a good example on how thoroughly they check the material they take on that joke of a show. (I'm implying they don't check it at all.)

What you are saying about areas of low activity in the brain is exactly the same study I meant. The US and UK governments used those studies as the base of their infamous "E causes holes in the brain" smear campaign. Read more at the ever-bountiful Erowid here. The study is fucked up in so many ways calling it science insults even the crappiest Sci-Fi writers.

The "world's greatest neurologist" must've had a bad day if he thought a talk show is a valid platform to talk about the dangers of E. I mean, Wikipedia is not the most credible of sources, but this is a way better place to start than daytime family shows. This pretty much sums up completely why drug research as it stands sucks:
There are some fallacies in applying these animal studies to human use. First, it’s difficult to equate rat doses to human doses; the rat metabolizes MDMA twice as fast as a human and often larger doses or multiple doses are administered to simulate human plasma levels. The doses given in experiments are far greater than typical human use of 100-300 mg in order to notice the problems caused so that we may say that if this happens at large doses, then a lesser form should happen at low doses. There could be a threshold of nothing happening or a threshold of the worst problems at low doses.

The other problem is that there is no such thing as a normal mind. Trying to make a comparison with such a topic is well... idiotic at best, irresponsible and malignant at worst. MDMA is probably the hardest drug to find decent info on unless you consider your sources carefully, because it has been the target of the most vicious slander campaign I've ever witnessed in the world of illegal substances. I guess this is because its primary effects undermine both the current dominant social behaviour models and the whole mental health industry.

As a whole, trying to read between the lines of all the papers published on MDMA, it seems that one pattern emerges, and that pattern appears to be the same as with every other drug: responsible use triumphs. Worry about neurotoxicity only when controlled use becomes excess.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

But tell me who doesnt fall in chronic expousore when first time try ex.No body,I salut to ones who do not do that shit,But 95% of exy user doesnt stops and take every weekwnd 2-3 tabs for min 6 months.And from there you get tosted brain.After my expousore I have 2 suicidal atempt couse serotonin was so low and niether antideprs. hrlprd me.Then I start tu use metadon.pethidine,pentazocine,morphine,tea from opium poopys and other opiat shit.I have try brain disfunction and evevn now many years from then still have marks.One e does demage-little noticed for 2 days but six months do shit.If you do not agrie with it TRY -I will send you E 3peaces every weekend for six months and than tell me that your brain has not suffer shit. :roll:

 

[Scinet]

But tell me who doesnt fall in chronic expousore when first time try ex.No body,I salut to ones who do not do that shit,But 95% of exy user doesnt stops and take every weekwnd 2-3 tabs for min 6 months.And from there you get tosted brain.After my expousore I have 2 suicidal atempt couse serotonin was so low and niether antideprs. hrlprd me.Then I start tu use metadon.pethidine,pentazocine,morphine,tea from opium poopys and other opiat shit.I have try brain disfunction and evevn now many years from then still have marks.One e does demage-little noticed for 2 days but six months do shit.If you do not agrie with it TRY -I will send you E 3peaces every weekend for six months and than tell me that your brain has not suffer shit. :roll:

Chronic exposure is always self-inflicted. No amount of research shelters people from their own stupidity, so if damage occurs in people who do MDMA every week or more often, then it certainly does not mean that MDMA is a bad or damaging thing, which is exactly what the neurotoxicity-seeking studies are trying to say. Excess always damages but that doesn't really make the damaging substance intrinsically toxic.

In responsible and informed use MDMA will give the users the good things.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

But tell to kids with 15 years or less to do not do that.E gives wonderfull feeling and so one time in three months using, is not possible in kids mind-they are going to eat it until damage on brain start to be excesive.

 

[Forkbender]

But tell to kids with 15 years or less to do not do that.E gives wonderfull feeling and so one time in three months using, is not possible in kids mind-they are going to eat it until damage on brain start to be excesive.

Well, if your a thrill-seeker, maybe this is true. But I can imagine lots of people who do see the dangers of it. This has to do with proper information being available to these kids, so I guess that's the key factor. I myself belong to the 5% who doesn't use Ex excessively. I've only taken it once up until now. I found it a rather bleak version of shrooms. Same good feeling, but without the feeling of unity with the world.

 

[tryptonaut]

Same good feeling, but without the feeling of unity with the world.

Are you sure that was mdma? And was it enough? Because usually you feel so united with the world that you start hugging strangers (which can be pretty awkward...)

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

Same good feeling, but without the feeling of unity with the world.

Are you sure that was mdma? And was it enough? Because usually you feel so united with the world that you start hugging strangers (which can be pretty awkward...)

That is all true.But I will describe situation in Croatia.14-15years old kidds are on 5 E couse this is maybe not good E(even hard mix can be good).But this is not only partys-they are in school wasted couse one E in Croatia is 1€.Would you like to buy sendwich or take E instead when you think your are inedstructibe.Half of them are now in psychohospitals talking with Napoleon,Hitler;god,Devil-so tall me is ECSTASY good and harmles as scinet tells-fuck his teory in Finland you will not find fuck up kids from war and their police is good in descovering dealers so nobody whants to go there,Everything thay get is from leftovers of soviet union. :?: :?: :?: :?: 8)

 

[Viaticus]

That is all true.But I will describe situation in Croatia.14-15years old kidds are on 5 E couse this is maybe not good E(even hard mix can be good).But this is not only partys-they are in school wasted couse one E in Croatia is 1€.Would you like to buy sendwich or take E instead when you think your are inedstructibe.Half of them are now in psychohospitals talking with Napoleon,Hitler;god,Devil-so tall me is ECSTASY good and harmles as scinet tells-

And we are talking about E that costs 1 euro? I'd say that the chances of them being pure MDMA are somewhere between slim and none. And you're saying that kids eat 'em as if they were candy? No wonder they get fucked up.

No one ever claimed that ANY psychoactive substance is "good and harmless", that's just putting words in to someone elses mouth. You can't go around chewing loads of (most likely) low quality E and expect something good coming out of it. But it doesn't mean that responsible use of MDMA will burn holes in your brains. Things aren't black and white, and especially in a conversation about psychoactives, they shouldn't be treated as such.

fuck his teory in Finland you will not find fuck up kids from war and their police is good in descovering dealers so nobody whants to go there,Everything thay get is from leftovers of soviet union. :?: :?: :?: :?: 8)

And now what's this? Why on earth do you have to go around and slander things, in this particular case, a country? Your need to put others down and emphasize your own merits suggests that you have some issues that need to be dealt with. I don't mean to be offensive, but please, try chilling out a bit, 'mkay? That kind of behaviour isn't doing any good to the image of psychedelic community, and it's eroding it's credibility.

Peace.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

Sorry I bout that . I have headacke,In Croatia one E is truliy one euri€-Belive or not and is full of MDMA, or some kind of speed.I have try it and its good-I thin that we are going to become new poland or germaby in production of E Cause you can easy way get 2 shedule chems here on yours ID card-SELL,SELL,SEEL-give us mony mony and you can cash and carry chemicals ilegal substances take even if cops couth you after and get 2 years of prison.PARADOX.Again I have terrible headacke so write some shits about finland.Sorry

 

[Scinet]

That is all true.But I will describe situation in Croatia.14-15years old kidds are on 5 E couse this is maybe not good E(even hard mix can be good).But this is not only partys-they are in school wasted couse one E in Croatia is 1€.Would you like to buy sendwich or take E instead when you think your are inedstructibe.Half of them are now in psychohospitals talking with Napoleon,Hitler;god,Devil-so tall me is ECSTASY good and harmles as scinet tells-fuck his teory in Finland you will not find fuck up kids from war and their police is good in descovering dealers so nobody whants to go there,Everything thay get is from leftovers of soviet union. :?: :?: :?: :?: 8)

Like I told you, nothing protects from idiot users. Me, I'd much rather take the sandwich, but to each their own.

In russia, street kids huff glue. In Addis Abeba, they chew on Khat until everything feels dull. In America, cheap crack rules the classes with no money. In each of those cases, there is an underlying pattern of victimization that leads to abuse. It's not MDMA that is at fault if Croatia as a country is fucked up and its children are afflicted with post-traumatic stress disorder. MDMA is simply a route of escape, and if some other substance was cheaper or more available, they'd use that instead.

Abuse stemming from trauma is something completely different and can occur with coffee too, so citing extreme examples as proof of a substance's negative aspects is not a very functional approach. The point I originally made and stand behind until somebody actually shows me an untampered research report citing otherwise is that MDMA is a remarkably nontoxic, safe and uniquely beautiful compound. Misuse doesn't change this.

Sidetracking here, but regarding abuse, I've never been as confused in my life as I was when I heard two full-blown alcoholics talk about drug users as "fucking pieces of shit that should be shot."

 

[Viaticus]

,In Croatia one E is truliy one euri€-Belive or not and is full of MDMA, or some kind of speed.

E is very rarely pure MDMA and speed is the most common additive. I didn't mean that the pills wouldn't do anything at all, I was suspecting that most of the effect is caused by speed (you telling the pills make feel "indestructible" supports this). And when you combine this with the pattern of use you described, it's no wonder if they contribute to the mental breakdown of some unfortunate people.