Can psilo be a crystalized alkaloid?

[Brugmansia]

For smoking it...

 

[Meduzz]

Yes. Psilocin can be obtained from mushrooms using acid-base extraction. Psilocybin however is a zwitterion. So it's always polar.

There has been a recipe around here....

 

[GOD]

"Psilocybin however is a zwitterion. So it's always polar."

What does that mean please ?

 

[GOD]

You could probably vaporise it better than smoke it , but if you want it fast and hard the best bet is fix it IV .

 

[Meduzz]

What does that mean please ?

The amine group (NH2) is basic, while the phosphate group (PO4) is acidid.
When a molecule has both an acidic group and a basic group it's a zwitterion, like amino acids.

Polarity:
low pH: both amino and phophate are protonated (extra H-atom)
amino is electrically charged (NH3+)
phosphate is neutral (PO4)

neutral pH (above pK of phosphate, below pK of amino): phosphate is deprotonated, amino is protonated.
amino group is charged (NH3+)
phosphate is charged (PO3-)

high pH: all is deprotonated.
amino group is neutral (NH2)
phosphate group is charged (PO3-)


Thus the molecule is polar at any pH. Molecules with only an amino group like DMT or psilocin are polar at low pH and apolar at high pH

 

[GOD]

Thanks mini Spice.......

I understood the first bit about the base part and the acid part but the rest was over my head .

 

[tryptonaut]

You can make crystal psilocybin (read Hofmann, LSD my problem child) but as far as I know you can't smoke it because the heat will break it down before it reaches your system. You can however take crystal psilocybin in capsules and have a good effect (see said book again)

You can read the whole book online, it's a very good read (the author was the late Dr. Albert Hofmann, inventor of LSD). The chapter on mushrooms and crystal psilocybin is here (the last part is where Hofmann gave his psilocybin pills to a mazatec curandera who confirmed they were "holding the spirit"):
http://www.flashback.se/archive/my_prob ... pter6.html

 

[druglessdouglas]

ive extracted psilocybin using water then vodka. i eventualy got a reasonably clean product though it remained a liquid. i think there may have been glycerin in the vodka, and i had not set out to crystalise it. it was very easy to ingest, much easier than trying to eat the equivelent dose of mushroom or drink a strong tea,
i believe a lot of the psilocybin converted to psilocin as the product was a deep blue colour

 

[GOD]

Maybe it was glycerin from the mushrooms ? I did a methanol extraction with mushrooms and after evaporating the solvent i was left with a greasy yellow patch full of crystals .

 

[druglessdouglas]

possibly. it was greasy and it started out yellow/ brown but turned blue as i was slowly evaporating the vodka. it was very cheap vodka, that usually has glycerin as a sweetener

 

[GOD]

Here the use antifreeze to sweeten vodka . But your idea sounds OK to me , as the vodka evaporated air and heat / age got to the psilocybin and turned it into Psilocin.....maybe .....

 

[druglessdouglas]

you can convert psilocybin to psilocin using alkaline phosphatase. the only easy source i know of is raw bone marrow so i havnt tried it but if i find another source i will

 

[BlimeyGrimey]

you can convert psilocybin to psilocin using alkaline phosphatase. the only easy source i know of is raw bone marrow so i havnt tried it but if i find another source i will

Why would you convert psilocybin to psilocin? When you ingest it your body does it for you. Psilocybin is MUCH more stable than psilocin. Converting the psilocybin to psilocin would only speed up its degradation.

 

[BlimeyGrimey]

ive extracted psilocybin using water then vodka. i eventualy got a reasonably clean product though it remained a liquid. i think there may have been glycerin in the vodka, and i had not set out to crystalise it. it was very easy to ingest, much easier than trying to eat the equivelent dose of mushroom or drink a strong tea,
i believe a lot of the psilocybin converted to psilocin as the product was a deep blue colour

A very easy way of extracting psilocybin/cin using alcohol is as follows.

Get some HIGH proof alcohol. 75% alcohol or higher. Everclear works best, the 91% stuff is best but not available in some states. The 75% Everclear will work too. I use Everclear because it does not have any flavoring of any kind added. Just water and ethanol.

First get some dried mushrooms (bone dry, aka as dry as possible) and powder them in a coffee grinder. Put this in a glass beaker or jar. Now for every gram of mushroom powder we add about 10 ml of alcohol. So 10 grams of mushrooms would use 100 ml of alcohol. Now put this jar in a double-boiler. A double-boiler is one of those pots that has a smaller pot that sits in it. Water is put into both pots. Now bring the water up to a light boil SLOWLY on an electric stove. Open flames are a no-no around alcohol for the obvious reasons. Slowly boil until you see the alcohol start to form bubbles, as in its about to start boiling. Now low the temp and try to keep it around that temp. A candy thermometer or other food type thermometer is useful. You want the temp to be around 170f. The boiling point of ethanol is around 173f.

Keep the mixture at this temp for about 20 minutes. Now take the jar/beaker out of the water and while the mixture is still hot pour it through a layer of 2 or 3 coffee filters into a new clean jar. Then filter it a 2nd time using new filters. Now you will have a slightly golden liquid that looks kinda like apple juice. Make sure once its done draining through the coffee filters that you squeeze the mushroom pulp thats left in the filter. Just ball it up and squeeze it to get all the liquid out of the pulp. We re-filter to get out all of the mushroom powder so our product is clean. Thats also why we use 2-3 filters at once. The psilocybin/cin will be dissolved in the liquid and pass straight through the filter while its still hot.

Now you can either (A) skip to the next paragraph or (B) boil down the alcohol again to lower its volume. Lowering its volume will make the alcohol more concentrated with psilocybin. To boil it down you simply put the new jar of gold liquid into the double boiler. Bring it up to 170f again and keep boiling until its half the volume you started with. 100ml should be boiled down to 50ml. Thus the 10grams of starting material will be in 50ml. So 5ml would equal roughly 1 gram of mushrooms.

Last step.
Wait until the jar cools enough that you can hold it without a towel or oven mit. This should take about 30-45 mins. Then put it in the freezer. After 30 minutes check on it. You will see tiny crystals start to form on the bottom of the jar. You may even see some forming higher up in the liquid and falling down to the bottom. Now put it back in the freezer for ATLEAST 12 hrs but 24 hrs is better. When you are done you will see a layer of yellowish crystals at the bottom.

Now to use this liquid you can do it 2 ways.

Some people reheat the liquid later so that the crystals dissolve and then shake it up and pour you dose into a glass and then add orange juice etc. This helps make each dose uniform.

The simply way to ingest it is to just shake up the jar REAL good so it becomes cloudy with crystals and then pour your dose and drink it.

This stuff tastes RANK!!!! Its like the PURE taste of dried mushrooms concentrated. Imagine drinking that frozen orange juice concentrate versus mixing it with water first like the directions say. While orange juice may taste good concentrated (a bit overly sweet to me) this stuff taste like pure dried mushrooms. Thats why I recommend mixing a dose with orange juice or even grapefruit juice to mask the taste.

This stuff will keep for years if stored in the freezer. It wont freeze solid because its alcohol.

I've done this twice in the past and even have a small clear 2ml vial of it left as a souvenir. It has a nice little 2-3mm layer of crystals on the bottom. I'll take a pic of it if I ever find my camera that has a good macro setting.

To douglas:

The blue color isn't from psilocybin converting to psilocin. The blue color comes from psilocin being degraded to NON-ACTIVE things. Bluing is a sign of the breakdown of psilocin which is bad.

Most "cold" extractions do this. Its because they take so long to extract the goodies while a heated extraction does it quickly. The 170f temp isn't really enough to kill the psilocybin/cin because we make tea using very hot/boiling water and we still trip.

Also a lot of the degradation you encountered was probably from too high of a water content in your mixture. Thats why 91% or 75% Everclear works better than say 40% vodka. The flavoring agents probably added to degradation of actives.

 

[BlimeyGrimey]

For smoking it...

Go here http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/8002931/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

A post at the shroomery about vaporizing 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin). It evidently works and is comparable to smoking DMT and/or 5-MeO-DMT.

By the way, Psilocybin is 4-PO-DMT.

 

[Bastiaan]

So you know how much ml=gr of dried and then you dose it and mix it with something that takes away the horrible taste, like orange juice..
Can you keep this psilocybin/cin in alcohol for a long time without it degrading?
Can you inject this psilo containing alcohol IM or IV safely?
Is there a way of getting crystals that you can also save and put in capsules?
Or are psilocybin/cin unstable in crystal form? Or did I not understand mini spice or sth?
I like crystals.. 8)
Anyway very nice method of extracting the psilo into a small volume of alcohol! I'll probably give it a try sometime!

 

[BlimeyGrimey]

This stuff will keep for years if stored in the freezer. It wont freeze solid because its alcohol.

You could slowly evaporate the alcohol until only the crystals are left. Usually it ends up as an oily looking mess.

You could "wash" the stuff once its dry with a solvent that psilocybin is NOT soluble in.

I'll use xylene as an example. I can't remember if psilocybin is soluble in xylene or not but this is just an example.

Put the crystals/gunk into a jar and pour some xylene in. Give it a good swirl to mix it up then allow it to settle for awhile. Then place in the fridge or freezer (make sure the solvent DOESN'T freeze, if it does then use the fridge) for a few hours (12 or so hrs). Now once the crystals settle to the bottom you want to use a syringe to suck away the top layer of solvent, doing it slowly til you get the level of solvent down as close to the crystals as possible without sucking up the crystals. Then evaporate the rest of the solvent away leaving behind your crystals. You can do this a 2nd and 3rd time to get a better purer product.

Basically you are washing away all the other stuff that was extracted with the alcohol which there will be plenty of. Things like salts and other inactive alkaloids. When you wash the crystals you want the psilocybin to NOT be soluble in it. The other crap you are trying to get rid of will dissolve in the solvent while your crystals do not. Then when you evaporate the solvent only the crystals will be left behind. It won't be 100% pure. More along the lines of 80% or so pure. If you keep washing over and over (3-4 times) you may get 90% pure and higher.

I'll have to check up on "washing" the crystals and come back with a full step-by-step process with the appropriate solvent(s) to use etc.

As far as injecting it goes I'm not sure. But I wouldn't do it simply because injecting ethanol into a vein doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

[BrainEater]

i smoked shrooms a couple of times. we shredded them and them rolled joints. i guess its a bit of waste, because of the high temperature of "burning" some psylocibin gets destroyed. the first experience with smoking was really intense though (the 2nd wasn't anything compared to the 1st experience)... we watched a movie and in my thinking i couldn't distinguish anymore between background and foreground... in the movie and also in my mind.

i guess it would be really mind-blowing smoking psylocibin or psylocin extracted.

peace

 

[Ultima]

For smoking it...

vaporizing 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin). It evidently works and is comparable to smoking DMT and/or 5-MeO-DMT.

By the way, Psilocybin is 4-PO-DMT.

is this true?

 

[Bastiaan]

perhaps machining them would be nice (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.p ... hlight=DMT)