Anxiety

[Teonanacapilli]

I don't think any movie is really appropriate for mushroom trips, definitely not high dose anyway. Even really good movies have parts that can really effect your emotions negatively and spark a bad part for the trip.

 

[ophiuchus]

+1. unless you just happened to have come across a movie already playing, right? :wink:

 

[Synith]

I don't think any movie is really appropriate for mushroom trips, definitely not high dose anyway. Even really good movies have parts that can really effect your emotions negatively and spark a bad part for the trip.

It really wasn't a good choice. I enjoy my trips now though. No negative influences.

 

[GregKasarik]

I can't say that I've ever had a trip where anxiety was an issue, but I'd suggest that the best way to deal with anxiety during a trip, is to deal with it IRL. Having suffered from a major specific anxiety disorder, I find meditation to be the best for this. It will also dramatically improve the overall quality of your trips.

However, the core issue issue with anxiety in tripping is that one of the effects of the shrooms is to promote muscle tension, which your brain then interprets as a possible fear response, and which you experience as anxiety. Your trip is then impacted, because you then start to wonder what it is that you have to feel anxious about and before long, your brain is able to come up with a whole raft or reasons. After a while, you will learn to associate anxiety with tripping and it will become a classically conditioned learnt response. On subsequent trips, you'll start to feel anxious about feeling anxious.

To get around this, you could consider taking a small dose of a sedative, or sleeping tablet, such as Valium, or Temaz along with the shrooms (these can be obtained legally via a prescription from your doctor). Sedation will lessen the tendancy for your muscles to tense up, thereby removing the intial trigger to the whole thing. After a few trips without the sedative, you should find that the conditioned response has eased off and you can get on with enjoying the trip without any noticable anxiety response whatsoever.

Also, I also use nitrous quite extensively when tripping. While this ramps up the intensity to a whole new level, nitrious is an anasthetic, so may also help with the feelings of anxiety. But please don't take my word for it, as this is only an uneducated guess and most likely would only work for someone experiencing low to moderate levels of anxiety. Any comments from people for whom anxiety is an issue would be welcome.

 

[ophiuchus]

deal with it IRL. Having suffered from a major specific anxiety disorder, I find meditation to be the best for this. It will also dramatically improve the overall quality of your trips.

+1000 i can't say this any better, coming from a very similar place.

"However, the core issue issue with anxiety in tripping is that one of the effects of the shrooms is to promote muscle tension, which your brain then interprets as a possible fear response, and which you experience as anxiety."

"...associate anxiety with tripping and it will become a classically conditioned learnt response. On subsequent trips, you'll start to feel anxious about feeling anxious."

recognizing this is the first step in renouncing it, and being rid of the mental association or conditioning.

To get around this, you could consider taking a small dose of a sedative, or sleeping tablet, such as Valium, or Temaz along with the shrooms (these can be obtained legally via a prescription from your doctor). Sedation will lessen the tendancy for your muscles to tense up, thereby removing the intial trigger to the whole thing. After a few trips without the sedative, you should find that the conditioned response has eased off and you can get on with enjoying the trip without any noticable anxiety response whatsoever.

although you ARE right, in a closed off test tube environment, if the person actually STOPPED taking the drugs after a couple times. unfortunately, people in the real world are not exempt from temptation in the real world. that's part of the lesson that psychedelics has taught me, and so i think, to introduce something SO powerful, (SO opposite... :?: ), and SO addicting to such a PURIFYING experience is like pouring coffee grounds in your cup. you took them out for a reason. sure, it'll get you going, and yeah, you can remove them if you want, but hey, it's already there, and im ok for NOW, so who cares?
except coffee grounds dont make you steal from your loved ones to obtain more. coffee probably wont get you evicted, nor make you shoot up. SOOOO, YES, your right, it's not fair to compare coffee to opiates, SO, dont treat them so casually in suggesting their use, just because you or i can rise above their grasp.

i would NOT put faith in MOST people to have the self control to be exposed to such chemicals in an unregulated manner. once someone learns how to obtain them you have opened a can of worms on THEIR hands. addiction to opiates and similar derivitaives is no joke, and i think, to associate something entirely opposite of the world of psychedelics, TO the world of psychedelics... would, and could, produce disastrous results to the psyche of the one using.

remember, these people are trying to overcome something that they have let become conditioned, why would you replace a naturally conditioned problem with an artificially conditioned problem??? =running in circles

i had a friend roughly two months ago, ingest opium tea somewhat soon before a mushroom trip. she thought she was dying. she said that she felt like she could not breathe and that nothing she did made it any better. she was constantly slipping in and out of consciousness, and in reality she was fine, but in her head she was fighting for her life. i wont tell the entire story because it would take to long, my only axiom here is that the way people will take drugs (especially unsupervised, unregulated), and the way people should, is rarely, IF EVER the same.

Also, I also use nitrous quite extensively when tripping. While this ramps up the intensity to a whole new level, nitrious is an anasthetic, so may also help with the feelings of anxiety. But please don't take my word for it, as this is only an uneducated guess and most likely would only work for someone experiencing low to moderate levels of anxiety. Any comments from people for whom anxiety is an issue would be welcome.

i've heard of people doing this alot lately. idk, i was always under the impression that this kills a large amount of braincells... anyone care to comment? **edited out a blurb about nitrogen, not nitrous oxide**

 

[timespace]

Also, I also use nitrous quite extensively when tripping. While this ramps up the intensity to a whole new level, nitrious is an anasthetic, so may also help with the feelings of anxiety. But please don't take my word for it, as this is only an uneducated guess and most likely would only work for someone experiencing low to moderate levels of anxiety. Any comments from people for whom anxiety is an issue would be welcome.

i've heard of people doing this alot lately. idk, i was always under the impression that this kills a large amount of braincells... anyone care to comment? (and yes, i know we inhale it regularly, even moreso than oxygen)

Nitrous oxide is indeed very good to stop a bad trip, from my experience. It indeed propels you into another level of intensity, and when it wears of you usually are in another state of mind. Very efficient to stop those panick breeding thinking-loops.

adrianhaffner, I believe you are mistaking nitrous oxide and nitrogen.

 

[ophiuchus]

literally, ALL of my anxiety *about psychedelics* i was able to squash with even sporadic, occasional mediations, as well as simply learning about the substances, and changing my routines (over time) to be a more healthy person in general. physical and mental health. what makes you more at ease than knowing something like the back of your hand(or as best as one can), and being in the best shape possible to deal with it, right before going into it?(that's rhetorical. nothing does) sure you'll still be nervous, but once you figure out that it wasn't as fantastical as you'd seen in movies and such, it can, and i believe, over time WILL help ease the mind. in the end though, it is up to you to set your mind at ease. just know that shortcuts at the wrong time can make your life twice as hard.

the only real question left is: in the absence of all the stimuli that you associate with causing you great anxiety, can you also allow yourself to let go of that anxiety, even if only for the same amount of time that the stimuli is gone? in other words; once you're in the castle, can you take off your armor?

 

[ophiuchus]

you are right, sorry, and thanks for the correction. but my statement still stands, i was not confusing the effects of nitrous oxide, only the presence of it in the atmosphere.

fact of the matter: i have heard that nitrous oxide will fry braincells. no?

im not going to take anything that is detrimental to my health, in the middle of, a healing ceremony

 

[timespace]

Yes, Nitrous oxide WILL kill brain cells, but that result is more because of oxygen depletion than due to the action of N2O itself. But sure, it is more physically dangerous than say LSD or shrooms, but less so than alcohol for instance (which kills A LOT more brain cells than N2O).

N2O is NOT very present in the atmosphere (.000003% ). Oxygen is about 20%.

 

[IJesusChrist]

ahhhhhh fuck alcohol!!!! ahhhhhhhhh fuck :drinkers:

 

[ophiuchus]

Yes, Nitrous oxide WILL kill brain cells, but that result is more because of oxygen depletion than due to the action of N2O itself. But sure, it is more physically dangerous than say LSD or shrooms, but less so than alcohol for instance (which kills A LOT more brain cells than N2O).

N2O is NOT very present in the atmosphere (.000003% ). Oxygen is about 20%.

your right N2O isnt very present in the atmosphere, i was referring to nitrogen, which is, and in fact, a main component as im sure you're aware.

i dont want to seem like im trying to defeat you, but, i've never heard that N2O is more dangerous than alcohol, but also likewise, i've never heard that alcohol is more dangerous than N2O either... im curious where you've heard that, or if you have a source or direction to point me to to find out

 

[timespace]

Hmm of course it depends on how you define dangerous, but from what I heard, the main physical hazard with N2O (if inhaled properly) is vitamin B12 depletion with long term, heavy use.

Heavy and frequent nitrous use can deplete vitamin B12 in the body and lead to serious and unpleasant neurological problems. Users may experience numbness and tingling in the fingers, toes, lips, etc. In more severe cases, numbness of all extremeties. Taking B12 supplements, especially in combination with multi vitamin and complete amino acid supplements, may help alleviate this problem. If you experience these symptoms, cease nitrous use immediately and if the symptoms persist, seek medical attention

Of course, if done improperly you can get frost burns, oxygen depletion etc.

About alcohol:

* Increase risk of oral, throat, colon, liver, and breast cancer [Boffetta P. 2006]
* Cirrhosis of the liver [Leon DA. 2006]
* Fetal alcohol syndrome if used by pregnant women in large quantities [Willford J 2006]
* Injuries from accidents, falls, motor vehicle accidents, etc
* Fatty Liver Disease [Surernti C, et al. 2003]
* Very high doses can lead to acute toxicity, coma, and death. [Yoon YH. 2003]

Well, I'm also not trying to defend N2O or to diabolize alcohol. But it's always good to know what your stuff's doing to you.

 

[ophiuchus]

"know what your stuffs doing to you"

i agree, thanks for the blurbs, ill look into it some more...

 

[twoceebee]

Hi, I haven't read all the replys so am just answering the original post. Telling yourself you will be allright in 8 hours and riding it out doesnt sound like much fun to me. I've never had anxiety from shrooms, although I've never had a large dose. I have had quite large doses of 4-Aco-Det, which I've read is very similar and can't imagine ever feeling anxious on that. Infact it actually relieves anxiety in me.

I've experienced anxiety on other things though, like LSD and 2C-E, and struggle with anxiety a lot sober. I find the best thing to do is figure out what's making you feel anxious - for me it's usually something benign, and often becomes pretty amusing! I find it easier to work out what's causing my anxiety while on psychedelics, and that can help me later with my sober anxiety as well. Being around certain people, or certain types of people is a big one for me.

The only thing that I've tried that gives me uncontrolable anxiety is weed. Stupidly, I still smoke it now and again and always get the same horrible feeling, like something bad has happened, or I've done something wrong. I can't seem to shake that one off!

 

[GregKasarik]

Nitrous Oxide is quite safe to use and there is absolutely no research to indicate that it would lead me to believe that it kills off any brain cells. It has been used for well over a century as an anasthetic (particularly in dentistry) and been shown to be perfectly safe even with moderate use. As with fairly much everything, high, repeated doses are problematic. I think this is yet another case of people saying "don't do x, it will kill off your braincells".

But, as has been pointed out, it can strip out the Vitamin B12 from your system and a lack of Vitamin B12 can lead to neurological symptoms. A few years ago, I did a search of the Medline database and was only able to find a couple of articles relating to this sort of damage, so I'm guessing that it is quite rare. Certainly I don't know anyone who has experienced it. It is worth noting that the people concerned had been using nitrous extensively and by this, IIRC, they were doing somewhere in the range of a case (ie 360 bulbs) a week for a number of months. From memory, the symptoms that they experienced on admission to hospital included complete loss of control over the bowels and lower body, numbness throughout the body, particularly the extremities and a general loss of coordination and control over the voluntary movements of the body. Cessation of nitrous use showed a significant return of function and the patients were able to be released from hospital after several months. I don't know how much of the damage was permanent.

My own use is more in the range of around 100 - 150 bulbs a month, so I don't have any real concerns for my health, but, without more research, I feel that this is probably the maximum that anyone should do on a regular basis, if only to be safe. I fully support the idea that people should take vitamin and mineral supplements whenever they use nitrous and suggest that people get hold of the 1000 mcg tablets, rather than rely on multivitamins, which may only contain 2 mcg. Multivitamins are still good, because effective uptake of the B12 requires other chemicals to be present and some of these are apparently to be found in the multis. Of course, I'm not a medical expert, so I'd encourage everyone to do their own research to verify what I've said before they leap in.

The other main danger is when people try to take the stuff straight from a tank (like that used by dentists), or bulb. This is just plain stupid and will freeze your mouth in a flash. I can't say that I know anyone who has done this, but apparently it has been done. In the past, some bright sparks have taken it from the tank using a facemask and ended up asphyxiating themselves in short order. The safest way to consume is to transfer the gas into a baloon and to inhale once it has had a chance to warm up.

The main problem with this is that nitrous can be very "moreish" and it is often tempting to chuck the things down as fast as you can load the bulbinator (AKA whipped creamer).

With respect to the issue raised by the OP. Interestingly enough, I recently took some older mushrooms that had lost much of their potency. I had a gentle trip, very similar to a tab of acid, but found myself to be much more relaxed throughout and ended up falling asleep very quickly afterwards. I noticed it specifically because of the mention that this thread had made of the shrooms provoking anxiety. This is something that I will have to pay attention to in the future.

 

[peach]

I don't get anxiety much myself on them. I do believe you should try to prepare yourself for them though, if only to get the best out of them. If you're feeling tired out, run down, dirty, have a cold or are majorly stressed, they'll amplify those feelings. So you really want one of those days when you wake up full of energy, positivity and the sun is out.

I do get extremely anxious being out in public on things like mushrooms, since I know how scrambled trippers can appear even to people who've never had any drug before. I solve that by not wandering around in public on them.

Blowing nitrous balloons is fk'ing funny even when you're stone cold sober. I can't imagine it tripping my balls off. I'd probably think there was a snake in the bottle popper, shoot the balloons around the room and freeze the popper to my hand for half an hour.

I'd like to try salvia or DMT whilst on mushrooms. I bet that would be RIDICULOUS! You'd need to be careful trying that kind of thing, and have some considerable previous experience, to not permanently derail your sanity.

 

[m0x1e]

Smoke some weed

 

[Michealleo]

Just dont do those thing that caused u to stressed out . And i've heard that yoga is best exercise for mental and muscles relaxation with consuming less enegry . Try to eat more vegetables and drink more fresh fruits juices . Hopefully soon u'll be able to cope with it . BEst of luck