Alternatives for prozac/anti-depressants?

[thadivine]

A friend of mine has a longterm depression and his mother wants him to to take Anti-depressants and sleeping pills :?

This got me a lil worried since i think this is not the way to handle depression and i know someone who killed himself after stopping with prozac. So my experience is: when you start taking it, you can't really stop. And living the rest of your life/a long time in some kind of induced state to not feel the depression sounds really, really fucked up to me...

This friend has some fucked up past with his father which is most likely the cause of his depression. He doesnt want to see his father ever again (atm).

There must be another way, right? Perhaps Ayahuasca? But this will fully confront him with his past, and that may be a lil too hard (especially since he has no psychedelic experiance -except for a lot of weed and some kanna (which is a lil psychedelic too i think))? Perhaps under guidance of a shaman or something?

Instead of the sleeping pills perhaps 5htp? Or medicinal weed :lol: ???

Does anyone have suggestions? I really think its not good for him going to take anti depressants and sleeping pills...

grttz

 

[twicon]

a very good spiriual tool to solve problems is Iboga rayer:
but a good alternative for prozac..hmm i think it would be kanna, it is stronger but in a more natural way (but it should be handled wisely, serotonin is something you dont wanna fuck around with)

 

[????????]

I'm very anti-antidepressants; they resolve nothing because they don't act in the source of the problem imho; it's like advising a sick person to sleep until the illness goes away, which is indeed very fucked up to me as well. Your friend needs psychological help, I don't know how this could be done because, for me for instance, these matters are very private and I tend to find the answers myself. But maybe you could make some "sessions" in which you could serve as some sort of mental guide for him step by step (won't be easy of course) so you can both get to the core of his depression. Help from psychedelic tools is essential, of course, if he's not versed in this subjects, teach him! I'm sure you can show him how one can explore the psyche with these important tools in a learning kind of way. Good luck anyway

 

[synchronize]

hey
my awnser let him undertake an ayahuasca session together with a close friend, and preferably with a shaman. I was in Peru 2 months ago and spend some time there with shamans. Learnd a lot from them. My personal feeling is that aya can heal every problem, but depends on howmuch you devode yourselfe to it. A lot of people with longterm depressions have been cured by ayahuasca too.
Back in the big NL I started reading more books about aya. According to Metzner and Grob, aya increases the serotonin levels in the blood and distributes more receptors in certain areas in the body which contribute for more uptake of serotonin. This means that after aya session people don't need any anti-depressants anymore! Please talk him out of the idea to take antidipressants. The pills don't solve the problem, they just get him very numb and creating new problems.
Aya teaches that you must not run away from your problems but to engage in them. Confront yourselfe with those fears and they will go. That is wat you want, get rid of the problem, not to put it in a cage somewhere in the mind.
I hope this info will benifit him..

peace

 

[Meduzz]

don't fuck with psychedelics and depression.

depression is something you have to defeat with a pure body. NO psychedelics, NO anti-depressants. even if you defeat depression with a placebo, chances are that you become dependent of that placebo (until you know its a placebo).

talking helps a lot. it's up to your friend to choose who to talk to.

 

[Maru]

Some people kill themseleves when they stop taking a SSRI, some when they start taking it and many because they SHOULD have been taking a drug (and drink alcohol or smoke weed instead) !
Prozac by itself will not cure but it may help to see things in face and slowly start to confront him with his fears. Which could be too strong without a chemical help. And psychedelic are definitivly not a good idea to START with !

Why do people think that Ayahuasca is 'safer' than prozac ?! This is a bunch of strong chemicals without any control on dosage.

I would suggest your friend to stop taking weeds, and start a chemical help followed by a doctor. Later, when he feel a bit more stable he can try psyches which are undoubtly an efficient way to know oneself.

 

[silv]

Is it not a good idea to try and seek help from a qualified person (psychologist/shaman/whatever therapist) who is willing to try to help your friend beat depression without resorting to antidepressants?

 

[thadivine]

He says he's been to a psychiatrist and it didnt work at all. He doesnt know what to do anymore except just doing what his mother suggests: taking antidepressants. I think antidepressants are one way which is wrong for sure.

About taking ayahuasca or iboga: I would love to teach him to work with psychedelics in a good way, for improvement. And i already promised taking mushrooms with him sometime. But even with mushrooms he wants to take a very small dose coz he is pretty affraid to get a bad trip or anything. Because of his past. He is very afraid of confrontation with his past.

And that is what things like Iboga and ayahuasca do, confront you with your past, so you can let it go (very simple said).
So i guess itd be best to do it under the watch of an experienced shaman. Does anyone know one in Amsterdam? (which is not damn expensive, cause all the ayahuasca session things ive seen are pretty fucking expensive)

Anyway he says talking (with psychiatrist/psychologist) doesnt work (and overall he is pretty open about it too), so what CAN be done?

 

[synchronize]

http://www.degewijdereis.nl/nieuws/index.php
little expensive but very good guidence what I heared and read about him. Not a real shaman, but a man who works with it already for quite a while, and has a more therapeutic kind of session. Dont really no shamans who live in amsterdam, since most of them dont live here in the west.

 

[twicon]

take him and go for a short jog, the better SSRI i know

 

[Maru]

I think antidepressants are one way which is wrong for sure.

What makes you so sure about that ?

But even with mushrooms he wants to take a very small dose coz he is pretty affraid to get a bad trip

And there are great chance he'll have a bad trip especially with a small dose.Small dose will 'excitate' his mind and toughts without the possible spiritual benefits of a stronger dose. But it will last the same.

DMT might do a great job if he really don't want to take SSRI (or low dose of ayahuasca). MDMA is another interresting alternative :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 7112300636

 

[twicon]

mdma could squeeze out the last remainings of serotonin and dopamine from a person suffering from depression, making his recovery emotionally cruel , the only way i think mdma could work for it could be on a 3-4 day, daily weak dosage to stimulate production of the glances..(somehow similar to the 1-2 month ssri treatment for a ''serotonin kick-up'')
thats just my opinion, im not a doctor :lol:

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

The Dutch vitamin company Ortholon has a product called Brain-mood, which contains Rhodiola, St. Jonswort and Griffonia Simplicifolia extract. The idea is to start using a low dose of this product, and gradually lower the amount of chemical pharmaceuticals while slowly increasing the dose of the herbal capsules. But this is a delicate issue, so there should be some professional guiding the process, verifying if everything goes well. Contact me if you want more details.

And yes, neither pharmaceuticals nor herbs replace psychotherapy. But they can be helpful, because psychotherapy is a slow process, whereas herbs have an immediate effect.

Psychedelics (as mentioned by others) can be tried later.

 

[WetStaples]

My friend recently went on Prozac, too. I never really thought anything of it. I personally have faith in them but I don't really know anything.

 

[Forkbender]

mdma could squeeze out the last remainings of serotonin and dopamine from a person suffering from depression.

Doesn't ayahuasca stimulate serotonin production?
I guess ayahuasca could be a little harsh for someone with a depression, but I find ayahuasca very loving and kind, it won't show you what you cannot handle and once you are in that state you can pretty much handle everything (if done in a ceremonial setting).

I recommend talking to your friend about these options and maybe give him a book about the subject (I found Narby's book the Cosmic Serpent a great introduction without being too 'far out') to show that you are not talking out of your ass.

There are other methods as well. I've heard very good things about Buddhist psychotherapy, and I do like their approach of recognizing every single thing that bothers you and live through it instead of putting it away (which causes a depression in the first place). Another thing might be rebirthing, holotropic breathwork, bodywork, etc. But all these methods require him to face his demons. If he's too afraid to do so, just reassure him that you have faith in him and that you will join him if necessary.

I hope this helps. Peace.

 

[Divinatory]

salvia has reported anti-depressant effects


if the whole psychedelic thing is out of the question, i've read many experiences of people with depression smoking just a little plain leaf (not enough to trip) every day or so and helped dramatically.


i think st. johns wort also helps with depression

 

[ShouldIBeDamned]

I have suffered from depression on and off for the last 10 or 12 years, probably longer but just didn't realise it. I started off on seroxat for the first few years, then came off it coz I didn't want to rely on drugs to make me 'happy' (withdrawl effects I might point out were pretty nasty) When it got to the point that I was making not only my life miserable but those around me I decide to give the happy pills another shot, this time prozac. Bye bye sex drive, hello violent rages and agression and still not really any significant improvement in my mood. As I felt there was not really any point in taking them I came off them but things still weren't right (again not very nice withdrawl effects). I decided to then try cypromil as my mum and sister were both on it and said that it worked for them. Still not really any improvement so I thought sod it I'll just try it without. (cue horrendous withdrawl effects, again)

But I found that I still couldn't cope with some of the things life has in store for us so I looked to alternative remedies.

After reading alot about all the various herbal supplements plus the fact that they prescribe it in Germay, I decided to give St Johns Wort a go. I started off taking just 1 a day as instructed on the bottle but after further reading and not much change I found that if I took 2 a day I would still be safely within the dosage limits. 7 months later I feel the best I have in years. I have taken mdma a few times, ket and a few ecstacy tabs in that time and have not noticed any nasty reactions.

Oh and did I mention I got my sex drive back???

Obviously this is only my experience and not everything works for everybody but there is something out there if it's needed I'm sure of that!

 

[GOD]

I have similar experience , and so has everyone i know that has ever taken anti depressants , as ShouldIBeDamned . Anti depressants dont cure anything they just mask symptoms and zombify people . Prozac has a VERY bad reputation . A few weeks ago it was proved that 4 major anti depressants have no positive effects at all and only worsen things . If you get prescribed anti depressants by your doctor it just proves that he hasnt got a clue and wants to sedify you .
The best thing that i have ever had is St. Johns wort / Johannis Kraut . I used to get it prescribed by diferent doctors . It helps you sleep , makes your sex life better and works real wonders as far as normal / light depression goes . There is a major problem with it though , it changes the effects of lots of other medicins or even cancles them out .

 

[ShouldIBeDamned]

Oh yeah, sorry I forgot to mention that, probably because I don't take anything else. I think this is especially true if you have to take anything for any type of auto immune disease, 2 people I know who would have liked to try it can't because of the medication they're on for auto immune diseases. I think I read that it can affect the effects of the contraceptive pill (makes sense as it is a drug) but I dont take that either as, stupid and possibly hypocritical as it may sound, I think it is bad to take synthetic drugs as a long term solution. Aside from the St Johns and the odd recreational substance I try not to take anything at all unless it is absolutely neccessary, I'd rather let nature take it's course.

But then I think before anyone takes anything it is good practise to research as much as possible before commiting to anything.

 

[st.bot.32]

Agreed, my own experience with venlafaxine (effexor) many years ago was terrifying. And it was prescribed to me on a whim (a doc asked me 8 questions, said i was depressed and gave me a subscription.) Then began a hazy, cloudy period of my life I don't even remember anymore.

Know what helped me in the end?

First, getting rid of the legal drugs. (We switched to a different drug after a couple months, but I refused to take it as I "came to".) Second, getting off my duff and changing my life. I still have my ups and downs, but now I think I can generally deal with them much better than before.

I know some people who actually do have chemical imbalances and need antidepressants to function. But these are few and far between. The legal drug trade of antidepressants in north america, I agree with GOD, zombification and exploitation is all it is. Makes most people unable to make the changes they need to make in their lives, and leads them down dead-end streets. I've seen this with people on prozac who shouldn't be taking it. It's sickening.