Alcohol+XTC better than Cannabis+XTC

[Nathaniel]

Alcohol+XTC better than Cannabis+XTC

Published: September 29, 2009 15:01 © Novum

NIJMEGEN (*the Netherlands) - Most people who use XTC, combine with alcohol,other drugs or a combination of both.


Research has now shown that a few drinks combined with an Ecstasy tablet is better than just swallowing a pill.

Using cannabis and a pill is not a healthy idea, says Glenn Dumont biomedicus of the Radboud University in Nijmegen.

Dumont is awarded a PhD next week on his research into the effects of drink or drugs on the use of Ecstasy.

Ecstasy provides a higher body temperature and heart rate.

Dangerous

A few glasses of drinks mitigate that effect, which is better for health. Cannabis increases these side affects and that is dangerous.

Cannabis also strengthens the pleasent effects of XTC , says the researcher.

...

Entire article can be found here (Dutch)


I just can't believe this..Only explanation I can think of is there was a flaw in the experiment :roll:

 

[Tunnelvision]

why cant you believe this. The explanation is quite clear right?

 

[Nathaniel]

"Research has now shown that a few drinks combined with an Ecstasy tablet is better than just swallowing a pill."

this

I've always understood alcohol dehydrates the body and so does XTC, so to combine these would be quite dangerous, and so could never be "more healthy" than just the pill...



But maybe I need to shut my skeptic mouth and listen to the Prof. :wink:

 

[Bastiaan]

My logic says the same.. I think this is bullocks.. (!)

 

[Tunnelvision]

"Research has now shown that a few drinks combined with an Ecstasy tablet is better than just swallowing a pill."

this

I've always understood alcohol dehydrates the body and so does XTC, so to combine these would be quite dangerous, and so could never be "more healthy" than just the pill...



But maybe I need to shut my skeptic mouth and listen to the Prof. :wink:

no...your argument is quite solid. I also learned this always. Could be another researcher that just makes up something and tries to proof it instead of the other way around

 

[mrvn]

Great,
when I take XTC, I don't drink alcohol and smoke a lot of weed.....

 

[st.bot.32]

wish the article was in english, i'd be interested to see what his methodology was. i wonder if he is referring to xtc as in the street drug which is often cut with speed, or pure mdma.. from personal experience and from discussions with others, mixing stimulants and pot is just a bad idea especially after you cross a certain threshold of dosage==high blood pressure, tachycardia, etc

 

[Brugmansia]

The whole party scene here smokes their weed with tobacco which induces vasoconstriction with an increase in the heart pulse, and due to the narrowing of the blood vessels, an extra contraction in all muscles. Cafeine strength in some served party drinks can be a serious issue as well.

Besides, alcohol numbs and dehydrates the body and the relative moderate increase in the heart rate because of MDMA is by no means a valid reason to ingest alcohol. It also puts down the stimulation which plays an important role in the euphoria since it accelerates all sensations.

Furthermore, MDMA acts as an euphoric stimulant with some entheogenic trails established because of it's action goes mostly through the neurotransmitter serotonine. I'd say both cannabis and alcohol and not desirable in such an experience.

I suppose this article refers mostly to party goers for who swallowing XTC has become a habit, as well as doing the substances which comes across their path. Or those who are already intoxinated prior before their E consumption. Which is all quite normal over here if you look over the dance scene with electronic music. Amphetamine, cocaine too...

I'd say it's rare that people nowadays are doing E completely sober, without tobacco, cafeine, alcohol and all other drugs. It's sad but true.

Come to think about it, MDMA + GHB is the only combination which enriches the E experience.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

LOL, I just read it in a newspaper on my way home. There it was mentioned (and I already knew this from 'survival guides') that when the body is overheated, one should preferably not drink soda, as that further heats the body. From that perspective a beer (which doesn't contain sugar, and not that much alcohol) would be better. I just don't understand why beer would be better than water.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

wish the article was in english, i'd be interested to see what his methodology was. i wonder if he is referring to xtc as in the street drug which is often cut with speed, or pure mdma.. from personal experience and from discussions with others, mixing stimulants and pot is just a bad idea especially after you cross a certain threshold of dosage==high blood pressure, tachycardia, etc

The most important parts of the article were translated above. And my guess is the research was done with pure MDMA. These are the Netherlands after all.

Actually, yes, simply google "Dumont MDMA" and you'll find a couple of research papers in English.

 

[Brugmansia]

Water depletes salt, sodium and kalium are essential minerals for the CNS. If these levels shrink too much, one may faint and organs will have difficulty with performing their functions. Natural juice is the best option actually, a pinch of a salty snack as well if the night is long-lasting.

 

[Nathaniel]

so I guess hydration levels were just not part of the research?

I think mr. Dumont should adjust his statement than...

People who don't think for themselves could get the wrong idea

 

[VerusDeus]

He's just saying that it's more dangerous to use MDMA and Cannabis because:

MDMA increases heart rate and body temperature.

Cannabis increases that effect.

So if you use them together you are at a higher risk of ? I guess overheating? And of course heart conditions.

But those are all short-term harm.

I wonder if they researched what the difference is between frequent usage of MDMA with alcohol or with weed.

And I've never had a heart-attack on MDMA while smoking, and never felt like I was in serious risk of such complications. I'm not convinced that it's really 'dangerous' to do so, it's just a little more dangerous. But I don't think people who do not have a heart-condition are at that much of a risk of heart problems when using MDMA. So neither would they be when using it with Cannabis.

[Edit]: Why doesn't any of the numerous of articles with this weird claim feature anything about the liver. I thought that MDMA is quite hard on the liver and kidneys and so is alcohol(correct me if i'm wrong). The same goes for Cannabis, but they are also saying it's healthier to drink some beers while on MDMA.

 

[Psychoid]

OMG it's been a long time since I have read such bullshit...

Come on, it's completely illogical...

First, mixing stimulants and depressants is ALWAYS a bad idea. Also, as Brugmansia said, MDMA is already known for the dehydration danger... and then they say drinking alcohol, which also dehydrates the body a lot, would be better than taking just the pill?! WTF the people who made this research should be put in jail for telling such dangerous shit. Some people might die because of this stupid advice ("Hey! I've always smoked tons of weed with MDMA and never had problems, and there they say that mixing with alcohol is healthier, next time I'll drink liters of alcohol!") I've seen some drunk people who had also taken ecstasy act like they had brain paralysis, never seen something like this with someone who had taken E only or with cannabis.

And then, even more absurd... better to mix with alcohol than cannabis? ROFL This is completely ridiculous. They say alcohol is good because it lowers blood pressure... haven't they heard of cannabis's vasodilatation properties?¸And then, it is also supposed to make body temperature increase more than MDMA alone... But if I do some research on the internet I find that cannabis LOWERS body temperature...

Please don't believe this study, it is bullshit, mixing MDMA with alcohol IS dangerous and very unhealthy, while smoking weed on MDMA poses no risk. I've personally NEVER took ecstasy alone, everytime I smoked LOTS of weed, and I've always had great experiences, with no bad side effects from that combination. Also if there was some speed in the pills weed permitted me to still be able to get some sleep.

Read this:
http://scienceblogs.com/drugmonkey/2009 ... _the_e.php

 

[spice]

This is pure BULLSHIT AT ITS FINEST.

I used to laugh at people who mix alcohol and ecstasy. If you didn't want to roll,
why did you take a pill ?


Fuck. :twisted:

 

[VerusDeus]

Well... I actually read a more thorough article on it. And apparently it has to do with the antidiuretic hormone. ADH irregularities are common when on MDMA, and apparently Alcohol and MDMA have an opposing effect on the ADH. Thus compensating the either too low or too high amount of that hormone.

Link: http://psychedelicresearch.org/?p=109

The article did make some sense... However they're looking solely at the risk of hypnatremia. So a couple of beers may help prevent hypnatremia, but it will still be a bitch to your liver.

But the thing about Cannabis+MDMA is plain tunnelvision bullshit. They could also say eating candy while on MDMA is dangerous, because sugar increases heart rate and MDMA does that as well.

 

[Meduzz]

I only smoke and drink on MDMA for the taste sensation. I don't like the effects. Too much cannabis makes me crawl in my own head and ruins the social, while alcohol takes of the edges and ruins the empathy.

 

[Mescaline]

hey, as I've got access to a lot of full articles on pubmed and similar sites I thought i'd look up the original reports.., with success
It's unbelievable how newspapers twist and bend scientific reports to their own liking..

I found three articles (attached them as pdf). Two about alcohol and mdma (co-)administration, one of which includes the discussion of the ADH hormone. And another one about cannabis and mdma (co-)administration.

Thought some of you might be interested in this, as I don't know how many of you have access to e.g. pubmed..
enjoy :lol:

 

[VerusDeus]

Yeah I figured it's probably journalists who know nothing about the body chemistry, and just draw a conclusion that the masses will enjoy reading. It's incredible how pretty much every newspaper and online news site reports exactly the same misconception. It would be nice of mister Dumont to come out and correct this, as I am sure any well respected scientist should be aware that this is not a conclusive study.

The article should say: If you're on MDMA drinking a few beers may help prevent Hypnatremia. If you're on MDMA smoking some joints will increase heart rate and body temperature even more than on MDMA alone, so it might be dangerous to combine these two.

But yeah, just some crappy journalists out for a quick fix for the masses, instead of wanting to report objectively about a new research.

I bet that since this article there will be more people binge drinking while on MDMA, because "the newspaper said that I would better drink some beers, otherwise it would be unhealthy to do MDMA"

Another funny thing is that the mainstream media never really source their claims, and neither do they include essential information like on how many people this study was conducted. (I saw a graph in the article I linked to in a previous post, which only included eight 'guinea pigs')

But yeah drugs are bad, alcohol good! :roll:
Unbiased journalism seems to have become extinct...
Peace

 

[Forkbender]

Thanks, Mescaline!