Abandoning tripping

[Sticki]

Depression could be treated with LSD or Psilocin and psychotherapy in the most extreme cases, I would imagine.

Also I think if you have abused something like MDMA and worn out your receptors then I think depression becuase of physical drain is possible. However psychological depression is nothing more then a higher state of awareness with a feeling of loss. (For Example, None of my mates come see me any more, I feel lonely...=Awareness. The feeling of avoiding this kind of thing in the future usually leaves people reclusive and they isolate themselves = Loss.)

Depression could also be caused by over exposure or intense exposure to extremely stressfull situations too, All this can be un earthd thru psychotherapy. Giving the user the chance to gain a new perspective and shake depression with new thoughts and a new look at life. (I remember reading about a depressed, Extremely suicidal woman who was cured thru 3 sessions of psychotherapy. In a report about LSD being used in psychotherapy for the first time in 40 years on this forum)

 

[IJesusChrist]

Depression could be treated with LSD or Psilocin and psychotherapy in the most extreme cases, I would imagine.

Also I think if you have abused something like MDMA and worn out your receptors then I think depression becuase of physical drain is possible. However psychological depression is nothing more then a higher state of awareness with a feeling of loss. (For Example, None of my mates come see me any more, I feel lonely...=Awareness. The feeling of avoiding this kind of thing in the future usually leaves people reclusive and they isolate themselves = Loss.)

Depression could also be caused by over exposure or intense exposure to extremely stressfull situations too, All this can be un earthd thru psychotherapy. Giving the user the chance to gain a new perspective and shake depression with new thoughts and a new look at life. (I remember reading about a depressed, Extremely suicidal woman who was cured thru 3 sessions of psychotherapy. In a report about LSD being used in
psychotherapy for the first time in 40 years on this forum)

I came to college thinking I might do this after I graduate - practice psychotherapy, as I knew psychadelics were strong enough to combat depression - however I was still depressed myself and at the time on the verge of some very odd mental illness, depersonalization, schizophrenia, or something of the like, and I thought surely if I were to study the mind anymore I would go completely insane. ( I still sort of believe that if you fully understood your mind you would no way enjoy it, it would be very awkward indeed. I think a true value in life is not knowing yourself to every detail... I think you need this mystery.

 

[st.bot.32]

But depressed persons definitely need to be in good hands during and after the trip. And as once again confirmed by Adrian here, the dose must be sufficiently high.

Too bad LSD/psilocybin psychotherapy isn't readily available. I do think a therapist is important, some depressed people become pretty nihilistic and self destructive after taking psychedelics on their own (seen it ) Although it's great that psychedelics have helped some people here..

For me my depression lasted years and was caused by circumstance. Once I was on the mend I started trying cannabis and psychedelics both of which helped me a lot. Some trips were so obvious too... My first LSD trip was like "hey.. here's one of the sources of your problems, you're projecting this negative self image everywhere, it's a completely bogus self image you've fed your whole life, oh and this is where it came from, do you remember?"

 

[st.bot.32]

I still sort of believe that if you fully understood your mind you would no way enjoy it, it would be very awkward indeed. I think a true value in life is not knowing yourself to every detail... I think you need this mystery.

Yeah, getting it all figured out would be so boring. The beauty of it is that I'll never get it all figured out. Who you are is always changing. Even the act of observing yourself changes yourself

But I do like knowing myself to a point... For example now I know what was causing and feeding my depression. I don't think I could ever fall into a state that bleak again.. Also I grew up in.. (I'm just shy of calling it a cult but it's getting close.) Now I know what the warning signs are, I don't think I could fall for something again so easily. And.. I've found that the better I've come to know and accept myself, I'm not so mired in my own personal shit from one day to the next, I have more empathy for others and am less at the whim of my emotions. I'm by no means "perfect" (I still have some things to work on) but I'm much, much happier with life than I was say 10 years ago..

 

[IJesusChrist]

I still sort of believe that if you fully understood your mind you would no way enjoy it, it would be very awkward indeed. I think a true value in life is not knowing yourself to every detail... I think you need this mystery.

Yeah, getting it all figured out would be so boring. The beauty of it is that I'll never get it all figured out. Who you are is always changing. Even the act of observing yourself changes yourself

But I do like knowing myself to a point... For example now I know what was causing and feeding my depression. I don't think I could ever fall into a state that bleak again.. Also I grew up in.. (I'm just shy of calling it a cult but it's getting close.) Now I know what the warning signs are, I don't think I could fall for something again so easily. And.. I've found that the better I've come to know and accept myself, I'm not so mired in my own personal shit from one day to the next, I have more empathy for others and am less at the whim of my emotions. I'm by no means "perfect" (I still have some things to work on) but I'm much, much happier with life than I was say 10 years ago..

The question is from me is:
Was it truly the psychadelics that helped you?

It is a pure question, not rhetorical. I really want to know.

 

[Forkbender]

The question is from me is:
Was it truly the psychadelics that helped you?

My answer would be: no.

Let me elaborate. I would say that the experiences I had on entheogens in which I consciously created a good set and setting were truly transformative. I learned a lot about myself, about how the mind works and how consciousness can lead to sanity. But I don't think that it was just the psychedelic agent that did all this. Precisely because of the ritual the experience became transformative, and precisely because I was ready to learn and thought that I would learn by taking psychedelics did I learn these things. The experience is not just the result of the psychedelics, though, it is for a large part dependant on who you are (what your preoccupations are, what you are thinking about, what you are feeling) and how you take them (at home with ritual, with friends, at party, etc.). It is precisely the experience that can help you, not just the psychedelics. Could we learn the same things without psychedelics? Probably. Will we learn as eagerly? Maybe. Will we learn so much in such a short time? I think this is unlikely. But that doesn't mean that the psychedelics caused the learning, because learning is basically an attitude. Psychedelics amplify that which you are studying.

From how you talk about it in this thread, I get the feeling that you had an experience that you find hard to fit in with reality. You seem to disregard other people's experience as bogus, because you didn't experience it that way and saw a truth that you think is deeper than the one people talk about. I sense some conflict, but from what you have said about it, I cannot grasp it, just like you are having trouble understanding what all the fuzz is about in those divine experience reported by others. Maybe we can help each other see how things truly are. So please, elaborate.

 

[st.bot.32]

It is precisely the experience that can help you, not just the psychedelics

Will we learn as eagerly? Maybe. Will we learn so much in such a short time? I think this is unlikely. But that doesn't mean that the psychedelics caused the learning, because learning is basically an attitude. Psychedelics amplify that which you are studying.

Bang on.

For me it isn't a matter of correlation. Psychedelics brought out memories visually, forgotten things from early childhood, and projected them. Things that I might NEVER have figured out because they were buried in places I would have never even thought to look. If I had eventually gotten that same insight without the trip, it might have taken years if ever. I mean in the end I still had to think about it after the trip, choose whether to learn from the experience, and what I was going to do with the conclusions I reached. Psychedelics don't do the work for you. They just give you the experience.

(And that was just one aspect... Then there was the synesthesic experience that left me with tons of new creative ideas that years later I'm still working on and opened up my eyes and ears to a lot of art I previously didn't get. The experience filled my head with music to the brim. And then there was the spiritual side of the experience, and on and on and on...)

 

[IJesusChrist]

So please, elaborate.

I have tried to explain it many times. Everytime I find, however my explanation is different from my last. This doesn't surprise me since I really don't KNOW what went on in my head when I was in that "stage".

I do remember knowing too much, seeing things I did not want to see at all. I was raised independently, I always thought to prove myself wrong in every way, I wanted to find the answers that could not be proved wrong - ever since I went through my earliest depressions (I was maybe 9) I wanted to KNOW. I wanted to know what the meaning of everything was, I wanted the knowledge.
After a while it went away, I started concerning myself with friends and fun more, and got into trouble (good trouble... just kid stuff) but when drugs came around, abouth 8th grade so I was maybe 14 I started taking them, I realized when I took them these thoughts came back - this strong intent to KNOW IT ALL. When I was alone I would see too much (this is on weed mind you). I would learn these things, and see so many connections I was unconciously blocking before. I started to see people as animals, and then when I hit bottom, as objects - this was such a sane feeling it was driving me insane, WHY DID NOBODY ELSE SEE THIS? I couldn't talk to anybody about it, it sounded like I was schizophrenic, people are people, not objects.... I slowed down the weed, and tried to stop but I was surrounded by pot heads that would do it just to do it, I would clam up and be untalkative when high, I just would solely focus on these revelations... I started to talk myself out of it, trying to prove myself wrong... exactly how I would do as a child. But I couldn't. I realized I was right.... This hadn't gone aaway, but I was seeking other answers, something to make me see a brighter day, so I was listening to psy-trance, and it brought me great euphoria when high. I got interested in psychadelics and started to search.

I met a man that talked about mushrooms, he told me he had gone to college after his 1st and only trip on them. It inspired him to seek the greatest theory of them all: M-Theory. This man seemed like me, so I went with his advice to do shrooms.

I started out with a bunch of drunk people, not really knowing what was going to happen. I knew I had a very strong will power, and nothing bad would happen, so I just decided to do it. After a while I just felt funny, I felt kind of drunk, and got really tired. I told everyone I was going to go to sleep. I drove home and the fun began, my car was warping all around me, it grew to enormous sizes, the road was swirling purple and pink, and the sky was so beautiful. I didn't want to go home... but for whatever reason I did.


I went home and went to bed.

Everything from my negative weed trips came rushing back, how I had just been at a party with these "animals" these "things" I couldn't handle it, I started seeing MORE AND MORE AND MORE I couldn't TAKE IT. It was so insane. I saw my own death, I felt my brain dieing, I felt as if I was rotting, it was the worst feeling I have ever, ever felt. I will never feel it again, just as you never feel your greatest euphoria again - I will never feel that all-encompassing hell.

Later I realized that the drug had not cuase this, it was along time waiting. I have slowly recovered from it. Believe me writing this feels amazing, it is the story of the past year and a half of my thoughts. But I slowly came out of it, (I remember telling my friends I was mentally sick, I was really, sick. - no one paid much attention, except for one.... he is a great person, I feel bad for his life now though...) But here I am. Mind you I have not renounced entheogens completely, just for the moderately long future.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Forkbender]

Thanks for sharing. Really.

This is me interpreting, not trying to teach you a lesson:
The things you have encountered on the trip are what you had in your mind all the time, seeing people like animals/objects points to an emptiness inside, an unease with being aware/conscious. The seed that you found within the emptiness, the seed from which you have grown is compassion (trying to prove that people were more than mere objects/animals). This seed needs nurturing, it needs time to grow and bloom. Nurture yourself and you will stay clear of this hell you describe, it is in your own hands. Develop a respectful attitude and you will continue to grow.

Sorry if this sounds like I (don't) understand you, it's just how I read it.

 

[restin]

I feel you, IJesusChrist. I can't claim feeling this so strong but the state of awareness has many fearsome features. Numbness often remains as the solution - but I have not really found one. Good luck.

 

[st.bot.32]

Wow, that reminds me a lot of my own first trip, (but obviously yours was very difficult). When I said I saw all this negativity being visualized.. it was onto the people around me I was with. I was so self-negative I couldn't even stand the "sound" of subvocalizing my own thoughts.

Anyway I think forkbender has touched on something pretty valid, at least it speaks to me when I think about aspects of what I learned from my first trip..

 

[IJesusChrist]

I was so self-negative I couldn't even stand the "sound" of subvocalizing my own thoughs.

strikes a chord. It was like it would echo in my head long after I said anything.

Very, very hard times indeed. I'm... glad I'm learning still (that is what my last trip in april taught me) I really need to learn, until I (naturally) die. It is my most favorite passion - whether it is how to cope, whether it is about the natural universe, or whether it is simply a funny fact. My mind needs the stimulation, it may be to keep my mind off of this sight, or it might be to prove it wrong, I don't know.

Thanks for you feedback guys, writing just that one post made alot more sense than I thought it was going to.

 

[st.bot.32]

im glad you posted, seriously, it made me think a lot about the past few years of my life as well.. sounds like you have chosen a good path too

 

[tryptonaut]

The question is from me is:
Was it truly the psychadelics that helped you?

My answer would be: no.

My answer to that would be mostly YES! I mean I don't have a really bad clinical depression, but I have been on medication for a year, and slight depression is often ruining things for me. I can feel the difference in behaviour after taking shrooms. Even if the trip wasn't great, and it was just a mediocre 5g trip with no real psychedelic benefits - my motivation is up for weeks. I get more things done and I am more active than when I take long breaks from tripping.

Also when I take longer breaks from tripping the feeling that I am somehow on something that I don't like (although I am totally sober) is gradually building up. After a trip I am relaxed and feeling better for weeks.

Every time I "don't feel like tripping" for a longer time (like a few months) I want to kick myself for not doing it when I start again, because then I always realize it brings me to my feet with power and motivation.
I always suffer a huge lack of motivation when not tripping for a longer while.

 

[DaZeD]

I dunno about abandoning tripping completely, but sometimes it all get's a little too much, like if you've been really really far there's just no need to do that again a week later, even a month, or 6 months later.
I speak from personal experience now, I've been really really far on LSD last time, so far that I thought it was somekind of a miracle that I was normal again the next morning, cause I thought I really done it that time, that I was ready for permanent intake into psychiatry :lol:

Gentle smooth trips can be done regulary imo, but not the complete brainfucks, thinking too much can cause some kind of burnout, so sometimes a break for a half year or so can be really good before going into the rabbit hole again.

I'm not talking about DMT trips, wich I think can be done more often due to their soft term and more gentle nature, I mean, they don't fuck your brain like acid and sometimes mushrooms do.

MDMA bis also something that I like to do more often, but again, not every week, the magic fades, and I gues that's the reason some people give up on psychedelics, they do it too much.

 

[ophiuchus]

The question is from me is:
Was it truly the psychedelics that helped you?

i wouldn't be alive right now if they didn't exist.

 

[DaZeD]

So please, elaborate.

Thanks for reading.

Hey, I just finnished reading your post, it's so damn recognizable for me, I was depressed for a long time, and I must admid that my first trips were often pretty damn hard too, suddenly you get hit with very comfronting insights for the first time in your life it's way too clear to cope with, I understand what you mean, I too am allways searching for the truth, and sometimes it's better not to know, ignorance is bliss indeed.....

But you asked if it was the psychedelics that helped you, and I really believe it was the psychedelics indeed, you did it yourself ofcoarse, but psychedelics allow you to use your brain in more logic yet very complex ways, I know perfectly what you mean with over-awareness, I myself can't get rid of it, sometimes it's all too obvious why people behave in certain ways, it's like Bill Hick once said, "Your denial is beneath you, but thanks to the use of psychedelic drugs I can see right through you".

I really think that's true, I believe that using psychedelic drugs can trigger something in some people's brain, so that they can "feel" people's drifts.
And that's not a good thing, it's annoying and hard to handle, maybe I'm just a really really sensitive preson though.But I know that feeling got stronger after psychedelics entered my life.But I learned a lot from them too, I guess the more you know, the less you know, cause if you know more, it gets even more complex then ever before.

Anyways, I feel what you try to explain here, but it's very hard to explain.Although, you did a great job doing so, and I'm glad you did, cause this only made me realize that there are more people that think this way.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Hey, I just finnished reading your post, it's so damn recognizable for me, I was depressed for a long time, and I must admid that my first trips were often pretty damn hard too, suddenly you get hit with very comfronting insights for the first time in your life it's way too clear to cope with, I understand what you mean, I too am allways searching for the truth, and sometimes it's better not to know, ignorance is bliss indeed.....

But you asked if it was the psychedelics that helped you, and I really believe it was the psychedelics indeed, you did it yourself ofcoarse, but psychedelics allow you to use your brain in more logic yet very complex ways, I know perfectly what you mean with over-awareness, I myself can't get rid of it, sometimes it's all too obvious why people behave in certain ways, it's like Bill Hick once said, "Your denial is beneath you, but thanks to the use of psychedelic drugs I can see right through you".

I really think that's true, I believe that using psychedelic drugs can trigger something in some people's brain, so that they can "feel" people's drifts.
And that's not a good thing, it's annoying and hard to handle, maybe I'm just a really really sensitive preson though.But I know that feeling got stronger after psychedelics entered my life.But I learned a lot from them too, I guess the more you know, the less you know, cause if you know more, it gets even more complex then ever before.

Anyways, I feel what you try to explain here, but it's very hard to explain.Although, you did a great job doing so, and I'm glad you did, cause this only made me realize that there are more people that think this way.

Amazing, really. It is good to see that I'm not alone in my thinking habits, or what I can see. I find myself also very sensitive to the sights of... being able to read people. While tripping it gets to the point where I can look at a person, and just read the thoughts... I don't know how, its through body language I believe I don't think telekenisis is possible... But I don't like the feeling. It's really ... de-humanizing or something.

The interesting thing is, yes, the more you center your awareness on it, the more it exists, and thus the more sensitive I feel to it, but the longer you wait, and time goes by it goes away, and you feel stupid again, but you're glad. Ignorance is bliss, however much I hate to use that phrase though.
But thanks dazed, and I hope you have good luck with your learning experiences.

 

[sadhak]

I don't know
money problems
legal issues
your parents

 

[kratom]

I fear I my sound a bit of an old fart but you just kind of move on. My friends and circumstances have changed and it just dont happen so much no more. Even when I chat with old mates the story is much the same...