What is the Matrix? reborn thread

[zezt]

Owing to the original thread by the title 'what is the matrix?' being deleted at these forums by an ex- moderator who misused his power, I have decided to ask the question again:

Why do I feel the question is important to explore, and keep alive?

Because I am aware that the matrix (and I don't mean the film, 'The Matrix', though no doubt people, if interested in this question may refer to the film) maintains itself through interlocking mind controls. Devices where it is made to be that your presented with phony choices and it doesn't matter what you choose your being still mind controlled. This includes so-called politics where people are presented with a 'Left' or 'Right' choice when voting, yet behind this false choice the same destructive machine just carries on, with little superficial changes to please certain portions of the public. Nothing radical is allowed to happen, because it doesn't serve the hidden cabal behind both parties.

I feel this is also very urgent to explore because everything is insane, and the whole of the natural environment is under attack. Ecocide. And a big reason many people don't seem to care--superficially at least--is precisely because of the mind controls being down to them.

I have experienced this directly in my life! When I was a very little boy, I had a sense of the magical of nature, but from 8/9 to 15 I lost all that, and was getting hardened by the culture. I graduated from fairy stories, magic woods, etc to Horror books. The only plant I wanted was a Venus Fly Trap. I was getting a sadistic streak, and was OBSESSED with my image of the big city. One time someone told me that in New York City if someone fell down in the street people would step over them, and that idea excited me!!!
I would throw litter when walking in nature which is disrespect.

When I was 15, I got turned onto LSD in a big city! And it was the trips I had which flushed away all that crap that had happened to me, the boy, and the magic of nature returned. nature was the Garden of Eden!!! I saw nature now as wondrously alive. Not only nature but matter. Walls, sofas, carpets. Everything was alive. And it was this experience inspired the journey of exploring reality through questionings etc I am still on and will carry being on, because reality is unfathomable

So although I doubt I would have ever ended up like some ruthless businessman or politician, because I loved music and wanted to be a dancer, when I see these grim grownups in their suits who are false, and totally disrespectful of others, and other species and nature, I see how what happened to me as a kid has happened to them BIG TIME! So-called 'education' is the first full on mind control we all face from being very young. Some of these rich evil sadists got sent to boarding school when they were kids. So they are extremely indoctrinated, because they cannot even escape that place and go home. This is not to make apologies for what they think and do though. They are adults and should sense things are very wrong.

 

[Abej^a G.]

Because I am aware that the matrix (and I don't mean the film, 'The Matrix', though no doubt people, if interested in this question may refer to the film) maintains itself through interlocking mind controls. Devices where it is made to be that your presented with phony choices and it doesn't matter what you choose your being still mind controlled. This includes so-called politics where people are presented with a 'Left' or 'Right' choice when voting, yet behind this false choice the same destructive machine just carries on, with little superficial changes to please certain portions of the public. Nothing radical is allowed to happen, because it doesn't serve the hidden cabal behind both parties.

me too! but I did of the matrix / really a cabalistic form:

10 : [E=mc(2) + bohm electronic + first law thermodynamic] + [hanuman + pantha rei + led zeppelin] + [excanche of favor + root bank + putin] + [you are here; but are you made from my mind?] = 10

I think to understand matrix we must know symbols; like says mahatma-children: "don't try to bend the spoon; the spoon don't exist, and after you understand that there isn't the spoon to blend, you blend your-self"

I think if we know what are symbols, we became symbols. like if we became that reality.

is a nice comparison your LSD experience with the matrix, zezt!

 

[zezt]

so you are talking now about The Matrix, the film. Well, I was recently watching this video, a native American women makes these really good vlogs when she is walking. She mentioned The Matrix and said it was a typical western 'the hero will save us' trip which is a common theme in stories and pushed by Hollywood. We all then sit back and wait for the hero, the saviour to save us. Ths could also mean some event like 'The End of Days', 'The Second Coming', 'Ascension' (remember the 2012 crap? lol), the descent of some spiritual event that will spiritualize nature, etc etc. But what is not understood is that it will take all of us working together to really change things
What keeps a shitty, people, animal, nature-hating corporation going? People's support. Those who buy their crap, use their services, and therefore support them. Supply and demand.

Also the spoonbending and the fancy martial arts where they are flying through the air. It is all new age myth. It is coming from the new age ideal and mantra 'you create your own reality'. It is the dream of becoming superhuman, and just doing and creating what you want. And guess who loves this myth? The ones in control! Because they are wanting and planning to push the idea that with their technology implanted in your body they can make you into 'transhumans', 'superhumans'!

Remember, it was in that film we 'see' (it is aimed at our unconscious processes) Neo's license say expiry 9/11/2001, so we know who was part of the making of that film....don't we??

 

[Abej^a G.]

mmm about what says children, I thinked he talks about "being part of nature" / and so of matrix, like your LSD experience.
but what you say about it makes sense;
Caduceus talks about "support of the community" about the scene of the kiss, I talk also about Love, who can save all of us.

your friend are right, all of we need a hero: "I want be like him!"
a cinephile friend said to me: "the story of the prenestined I think is a bullshit, all of they can be prenestined"

I like these curiosity of work's creation!!!!!

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

"So-called 'education' is the first full on mind control we all face from being very young. Some of these rich evil sadists got sent to boarding school when they were kids. So they are extremely indoctrinated, because they cannot even escape that place and go home."

Absolutely.

Reminds me of what Jacques Fresco says about cultural conditioning and indoctrination:

"When I was 15, I got turned onto LSD in a big city! And it was the trips I had which flushed away all that crap that had happened to me, the boy, and the magic of nature returned. nature was the Garden of Eden!!! I saw nature now as wondrously alive."

Hallelujah! Praise LSD!

 

[zezt]

YES!!! Ale lu eia LSD. It is because of those early experiences, whenever I hear someone worrying about 'organic' or 'synthetic' psychedelics such as LSD, and trying to put LSD down I just share what I experienced


Seeing you mention Jacques Fresco, and I agree with some of what he is saying, especially when he says how the culture your brought up in, the owners of the institutions try and make you accept their worldview. That is what this questioning the matrix thread is intended to be about. That the more we question, the more we are becoming AWARE of the myths which have been and are being pushed on us via various means to mind control us. But... if I agree with Fresco telling me that, must this mean that what HE is about, or what he is promoting, must remain invisible and not questioned? No.

an example. the church of Scientology will proclaim loud and clear, and make videos about, the mental illness myth, and how it needs to be exposed. I agree it is a myth, and some leaders in exposing the mental illness myth seemed to have accepted Scientology as a supporter of the cause, even though they themselves are not Scientologists, but I do question that Church which I also dislike very much, because I see they are a very oppressive mind control cult. So what is the point of one oppressive mind control cult exposing another one. Is it to hide what assholes they themselves are.

in the video, Fresco says "myth is all about the little guy toiling in the field saying, what's all this about I don't seem to be getting anywhere?' and then he is promised, by those who control the institutions, heaven in the next life if he just does what he's told now.

Is that all myth is about? Isn't mythology originally a natural outpouring of human creativity, of story telling, and a trying to understand via song, dance, ritual, ecstatic experience, the paradoxical mysterious nature of reality?

Native American myths, for example, included animals in their myths or stories as being our first teachers, and this deeply respected animals roles in human life. All of us related. I would call this benign mythology.

But contrast that mythology-making with Cartesian myth, the myth of "I think so I am" and then he believed animals didn't think or have souls and were robots and then tortured them alive! That is toxic myth. Evil. it is designed to abuse others and divide the believers in it from other species and from the sensual physical body and nature

I have found this. It reveals Jacques Frescoe and 'his vision' and its connection with the UN:

The Zeitgeist Movement/Venus Project is a United Nations Front!!


He also tries to debunk telepathy and seems to be promoting physicalism, which itself is a myth. A toxic one because it tries to dismiss 'spirit' from the dynamic. Don't know if you agree?

Jacques Fresco - Debunking Telepathy | London Real

 

[zezt]

This also is very interesting:
Jacque Fresco Illuminati puppet


The whole video is important, but about 5:30 is beint talked about the ancient Egyptian myth of the sun god RA, and the belief that every night he was swallowed up by the evil serpent APEP, and only through the rituals of RA's priests could they help RA free himself from APEP and rise in the morning. So this is fear-based mind-control isn't it? And in the video is said how that though we may laugh at the gullible believers in such a preposterous myth as that, yet still the formula of such fear-based myths are still used by the ones in control for mind control!! Hence in the 20th century we had the induced fear of 'the Cold War' and that at any time the Russians are gonna attack and bring about possible end of the world, and in the 21st century now, with 9/11 is the so-called 'War on Terror'. ANOTHER toxic myth. Blatantly so for those with any intelligence to see.

Recently I was watching an interview with Steve Beyer talking about Amazonian shamanism, and how in traditions there is the fear of brujos (bad shamans) and 'magical darts' which shamans collect in their phlegm and fire them at people to cause harm and death, and that these magical dart have a life of their own and want to be used to harm people. But whereas the brujo cannot resist his aggressive impulse to use them (the culture teaches that humans are naturally aggressive) , the 'good shaman'--even though he collects them also in his phlegm--can control the urge to use them. Is this myth not also fear-based mind control? I would say it is. But for people in that tradition to question that, I imagine, it would be very taboo, and also be felt to be very dangerous.

In this video they are saying that also the big fear based mind control being used now by those that own the institutions, and for the excuse to abuse many people , and kill them (including babies and children), is the fear of "overpopulation"! And that Fresco is part of the propaganda machineto promote this "solution".

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I'm aware that Jacques Fresco has a rather materialistic world view. So although I like his designs and many of his ideas about culture, I do not necessarily subscribe to all his views.

I'm also aware of the various conspiracy theories involving Jacques Fresco, created by right wing libertarian Christians, as well as fanatical anarchists and/or crazy people like Jan Irvin. These people oppose anything that reeks of communism (communalism) and centralized resource-management. And of course the name of Jacques concept, the Venus Project, fuels conspiracy theories involving Lucifer and the Illuminati.

I agree there are toxic myths circulating within shamanic circles too. This obsession with witchcraft and other forms of superstition is one of the reasons I never became that interested in the Amazonian ayahuasca hype. And like you, my first and most enlightening experience was with LSD, so I never bought into the "natural is better than synthetic" BS either.

I disagree with your interpretation of cogito ergo sum. That concept was never used to suggest that those who cannot think, don't exist or have less value. Rather, that the question whether one exists or not is answered by the very pondering itself. And by derivation, if I exist, then the animals and trees must exist too.

The problem with Cartesianism is that for a long time, the mind-body problem could not be resolved, and thus the concept of mind was simply abandoned. Mainstream science is still in the dark about mind. The solution was indicated by Pythagoras all along: all is number. What unifies mind and body is mathematics. Mainstream scientists cannot figure out how it does, however, because they work with an incomplete set of mathematics. They think only positive numbers have factual existence, rejecting the ontological existence of negative numbers, zero and infinity (infinities are removed from equations through 'normalization'). Mind, or soul, is the realm of zero and infinity. It is therefore no surprise that mainstream scientists are as averse to spirituality as they are to these difficult numbers. A Grand Unified Theory of Everything is only possible when zero, infinity and the negative numbers are embraced as ontologically real. Mind, or subjectivity, is empty. It is a dimensionless, unextended point, a monad. It is beyond time and space, and therefore beyond the grasp of experiment and our physical senses. While the physical universe can be explored by going outward, to encounter the soul one has to go inward. The bridge between science and spirituality is mathematics, but not a subset of mathematics. Only complete mathematics solves the mind-body problem and unites science and religion, as well as relativity theory and quantum physics. Key mathematical concepts are Euler's identity, the Riemann hypothesis, Fourier transforms and Leibniz's monadology.

Descartes was on the right track (as was Pythagoras), but it would take several centuries for the puzzle to be solved.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

This also is very interesting:
Jacque Fresco Illuminati puppet

I think that video is mostly bullshit. First of all, there's no evidence whatsoever that the current elite of super rich families has anything to do with the Illuminati. Historically, the Illuminati were a group of intellectuals supporting Enlightenment ideals, who were opposed to the monarchies and unbridled power of the church. One could say the Illuminati were the psychonauts of the 18th century. So whenever an author uses the term Illuminati to denote the global power elite, that author immediately loses credibility.

James Corbett is a deluded conspiracy theorist. These people have created a very complex Mythos and are practically a religious cult. Anyone who doesn't agree with their Mythos is automatically branded as an disinformation agent or a government shill, the modern version of a heretic. You can even see it in the description of this video:

i dont like how the creators [of the Zeitgeist Movement] supposively "got over the 9/11 conspiracy"

over population is a lie.

peter joseph doesnt believe 9/11 is a government cover-up

Haha, that fool even used the word "believe" in relation to the 9/11 conspiracy theory. Because yeah, that's what it is: a belief.

These people get very upset when a man like Peter Joseph becomes sceptical about "9/11 Truth", or when Charlie Veitch (the Love Police) decides to make a U-turn and reject the Truther version of what happened (thermite, Mossad and all that crap).

The world IS overpopulated!!! You might argue that agriculture (i.e. growing wheat and soy) could feed the whole world, but agriculture isn't at all sustainable! Nor is the current need for energy and fresh water. Perhaps in some future utopia the current population can be maintained, but right now it is wrecking the planet. I'm not saying large scale genocide or eugenics is the solution, but to deny overpopulation is living in severe denial of the facts.

 

[zezt]

I'm aware that Jacques Fresco has a rather materialistic world view. So although I like his designs and many of his ideas about culture, I do not necessarily subscribe to all his views.

Yes! This is no insignificant little omission. He discounts 'spirit', and thus puts himself in with the patriarchal toxic myth-makers lineage.

I'm also aware of the various conspiracy theories involving Jacques Fresco, created by right wing libertarian Christians, as well as fanatical anarchists and/or crazy people like Jan Irvin. These people oppose anything that reeks of communism (communalism) and centralized resource-management. And of course the name of Jacques concept, the Venus Project, fuels conspiracy theories involving Lucifer and the Illuminati.

Now you seem to contradict yourself. As I am sure you are aware, 'communism' without deep understa nding of 'spirit' is VERY dangerous indeed? And it has to be said that the choice of the 'Venus' project--for those in the know about the elite Luciferian philosophy-- is utterly suspect.

I agree there are toxic myths circulating within shamanic circles too. This obsession with witchcraft and other forms of superstition is one of the reasons I never became that interested in the Amazonian ayahuasca hype. And like you, my first and most enlightening experience was with LSD, so I never bought into the "natural is better than synthetic" BS either.

Yeah, we should question all tradition if we feel the need to, and not feel intimidated not to. I don't say magic mushrooms are better, but of course different. Also one doesn't know if your getting actual real LSD anymore, whereas when you pick magic mushrooms you know they are organic and real.

I disagree with your interpretation of cogito ergo sum. That concept was never used to suggest that those who cannot think, don't exist or have less value. Rather, that the question whether one exists or not is answered by the very pondering itself. And by derivation, if I exist, then the animals and trees must exist too.

So you think Descartes valued the animals he tortured do you...?
That animals and trees exist is a given. Any child knows that, so I don't see your point. What that evil shit did was dissociate his thinking from his heart, and that is how he could do such terrible horror to animals and have no empathy for their cries of pain and suffering. He was the VICTIM of his 'thinking' and so were the unfortunate animals that came into contact with him and his followers.

The problem with Cartesianism is that for a long time, the mind-body problem could not be resolved, and thus the concept of mind was simply abandoned. Mainstream science is still in the dark about mind. The solution was indicated by Pythagoras all along: all is number. What unifies mind and body is mathematics. Mainstream scientists cannot figure out how it does, however, because they work with an incomplete set of mathematics. They think only positive numbers have factual existence, rejecting the ontological existence of negative numbers, zero and infinity (infinities are removed from equations through 'normalization'). Mind, or soul, is the realm of zero and infinity. It is therefore no surprise that mainstream scientists are as averse to spirituality as they are to these difficult numbers. A Grand Unified Theory of Everything is only possible when zero, infinity and the negative numbers are embraced as ontologically real. Mind, or subjectivity, is empty. It is a dimensionless, unextended point, a monad. It is beyond time and space, and therefore beyond the grasp of experiment and our physical senses. While the physical universe can be explored by going outward, to encounter the soul one has to go inward. The bridge between science and spirituality is mathematics, but not a subset of mathematics. Only complete mathematics solves the mind-body problem and unites science and religion, as well as relativity theory and quantum physics. Key mathematical concepts are Euler's identity, the Riemann hypothesis, Fourier transforms and Leibniz's monadology.

Your views then reflect the patriarchal dualistic views of your hero, Pythagoras, and no doubt, Plato, who would see nature, and the sensual body, and women as inferior to their concept of numbers, and ideal forms which they associated with the masculine principle.
I always hated math at school, so you aint gonna get me in your numbers cult lol But listen, when I have psychedelic experience, and don't see layered electronic waterfalls of digits like was featured in the film The Matrix. I see form, and I feel from the heart. You night argue that numbers or sacred geometry has to do with form, but that is just abstracting out an aspect of reality. To then proclaim 'all is number' is hopelessly reductive. Other philosophers have tried to presume that there little insight must mean it is so for reality with 'all is water' 'all is fire' etc etc. But these are all abstractions. What about feeling. Hows about all is love?

Descartes was on the right track (as was Pythagoras), but it would take several centuries for the puzzle to be solved.

A;; patriarchal dualists who caused a lot of toxic shit down the line with their dualistic thinking. You will never solve your puzzle putting your faith into these. Kill them!

 

[zezt]

I think that video is mostly bullshit. First of all, there's no evidence whatsoever that the current elite of super rich families has anything to do with the Illuminati. Historically, the Illuminati were a group of intellectuals supporting Enlightenment ideals, who were opposed to the monarchies and unbridled power of the church. One could say the Illuminati were the psychonauts of the 18th century. So whenever an author uses the term Illuminati to denote the global power elite, that author immediately loses credibility.

It might be better to call them Luciferians, because their role model and even god (though by 'god' they mean their very selves) is Lucifer, the 'light bringer'. You can see this from looking at the various branches they push onto the world stage, all calculated to serve their purposes for their hoped-for empire, globalism, their new world order. This is the same New World Order which the senior Bush president dedicated to in his speech 11 years previous to the attacks on 9/11/01 , on 9/11/ 1990 . You say you love numbers.....? get it??

James Corbett is a deluded conspiracy theorist. These people have created a very complex Mythos and are practically a religious cult. Anyone who doesn't agree with their Mythos is automatically branded as an disinformation agent or a government shill, the modern version of a heretic. You can even see it in the description of this video:

i dont like how the creators [of the Zeitgeist Movement] supposively "got over the 9/11 conspiracy"

over population is a lie.

peter joseph doesnt believe 9/11 is a government cover-up

Haha, that fool even used the word "believe" in relation to the 9/11 conspiracy theory. Because yeah, that's what it is: a belief.

These people get very upset when a man like Peter Joseph becomes sceptical about "9/11 Truth", or when Charlie Veitch (the Love Police) decides to make a U-turn and reject the Truther version of what happened (thermite, Mossad and all that crap).

All you have said there CM is precisely nothing. Regardless of what you may think of James Corbett, he shows evidence for what he is saying. All that you have presented here is just a reaction of world, including insults of people. Not good enough. Could do better.
I am very sceptical of people who cannot see that 9/11 was a false flag and how the official narrative is absurd on many levels. MEANS, MOTIVE, OPPORTUNITY good detectives look for. try it yourself. How can people that get upset when we question the official version of events NOT see what we mean?
Can you not see CM that those who are pushing FOR a new world order will of course doubt 9/11, because the ones who did that WANT a NWO. Are you not aware how devious those who do mind control are? Why do you think it is mind control?

The world IS overpopulated!!! You might argue that agriculture (i.e. growing wheat and soy) could feed the whole world, but agriculture isn't at all sustainable! Nor is the current need for energy and fresh water. Perhaps in some future utopia the current population can be maintained, but right now it is wrecking the planet. I'm not saying large scale genocide or eugenics is the solution, but to deny overpopulation is living in severe denial of the facts.

You maybe not familiar with how these elites LOVE their Eugenics. ANY excuse to see others as less evolved than they think they are, and this means they have the power and right to kill others. But like culling some critter from your front lawn ...ey what? THAT is the evil we mean. Even if you posit there is overpopulation, why do you think it is. A reason is that the oppressive shit these greedy vile world mis-leaders impose on others, forcing people into debt, taking their resources etc causes people to have more children as security. So if you lose children to disease through poverty you still have others to support you. This is all caused by the very vile fuckers who want to use the reason of 'overpopulation' to then use various evil projects like war mongering, testing on people with nuclear weapons and secret weapons, starvation, poverty---euthanasia, They are doing it in the West now, persecuting people who are 'vulnerable' without work, disabled, 'mentally ill'. Stopping their money they need to live, and causing deaths, including suicides. But their sick minds will be proud of this. After all they are part of their plan to depopulate 'their over crowded garden'.

 

[Abej^a G.]

you really right about fear and doubt, very important things for the matrix... matrix lives of fear and doubt to be introduced in people

someone talks about "reptilians/illimuninati" (among the many wikileaks) too

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

"He discounts 'spirit', and thus puts himself in with the patriarchal toxic myth-makers lineage."

I don't see the logic in this statement. The patriarchal religions all believed in spirit. And the further you move into secular circules, the more men and women have equal rights and equal opportunities. I have not seen any traces of patriarchy or misogyny in Jacque Fresco's ideas.


"Now you seem to contradict yourself. As I am sure you are aware, 'communism' without deep understanding of 'spirit' is VERY dangerous indeed?"

I wrote "communism (communalism)" to emphasize that I wasn't talking about atheistic Marxism, but about the general principle of sharing resources. There are many spiritual communes in the world where vehicles, tools and so on are shared by all members of the commune. The Venus Project proposes the creation of various "libraries", where you can borrow tools, musical instruments and so on.


"And it has to be said that the choice of the 'Venus' project--for those in the know about the elite Luciferian philosophy-- is utterly suspect."

To me it's just a funny synchronicity. Funny, because it's food for the WASP conspiracy theorists.


"So you think Descartes valued the animals he tortured do you...?"

No, he didn't value those animals. But it was not related to cogito ergo sum. Vivisection was going on before Descartes, and he was introduced to the practice through his Jesuit education.


"Your views then reflect the patriarchal dualistic views of your hero, Pythagoras, and no doubt, Plato, who would see nature, and the sensual body, and women as inferior to their concept of numbers, and ideal forms which they associated with the masculine principle."

Boy, you're a master of Red Herrings. I simply state that what unites matter and spirit is mathematics, and you immediately go on a tangent about Plato, women and the masculine principle.

One moment you say it's important to accept spirit, the next you reject the very thing that can prove there IS such a thing as spirit: mathematics. I never claimed it's a masculine principle. Mathematics is neither masculine nor feminine.


"I always hated math at school"

That's not relevant. I didn't like German in school, but later on in life I realized the importance of it, and now I enjoy watching German movies. I wasn't very good at math when I was a teenager, but it's never too late to learn! And so I'm trying to catch up. Don't be intellectually lazy!


"don't see layered electronic waterfalls of digits like was featured in the film The Matrix. I see form, and I feel from the heart."

I never claimed existence will ever be experienced like a waterfall of digits. When you listen to music, you're not aware of the mathematics behind it, even though all notes are based on certain ratios and all rhythms involve patterns of beats. When I say existence is entirely mathematical, I don't mean it is perceived as mathematical. We all know matter is composed of atoms, but we don't perceive the world as atoms moving around.


"Other philosophers have tried to presume that there little insight must mean it is so for reality with 'all is water' 'all is fire' etc etc."

Yes, but none of them could prove their point. The arche can only be complete mathematics, linking spirit to matter (the realm of time and space) and vice versa.


"You will never solve your puzzle putting your faith into these."

The puzzle HAS been solved. No faith is required. But you do have to overcome your aversion to mathematics. This initiation requires some personal effort.


"It might be better to call them Luciferians, because their role model and even god (though by 'god' they mean their very selves) is Lucifer, the 'light bringer'."

Actually, the Illuminati are a gnostic sect whose role model is Abraxas, who is beyond good and evil. Neither Satan (evil) nor Lucifer (moral goodness) has transcended duality. Their synthesis is Abraxas.


"This is the same New World Order which the senior Bush president dedicated to in his speech"

George Bush is NOT an Illuminatus! Is there ANY evidence that Bush is part of the Illuminati? George Bush is a WASP, part of the global power elite, not the gnostic resistance movement called the Illuminati.


"You say you love numbers.....? get it??"

I don't love numbers. I simply state that the solution to the mind-body problem is complete mathematics: mind is the realm of zero (a dynamic void, in which subjective experiences can take place and choices can be made), and is related to physical existence (of positive numbers) through mathematical transforms, translating physical signals from the dimensional universe into frequencies that can be experienced by spirit in the nondimensional universe, and vice versa.


"Can you not see CM that those who are pushing FOR a new world order will of course doubt 9/11"

I know several people, myself included, who started off as conspiracy theorists, believing the US government and/or Mossad and/or Freemasons orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. Between 2000 and 2009 I watched all the documentaries and read numerous webpages about this topic. Building 7, thermite and so on, I'm fully informed about all of these ideas. And yet in 2010 I rejected the idea, and allowed myself to study the various theories from another perspective, that of a skeptic, which turned out to be much more sensible. I'm certainly not interested in creating a sinister world order, and nor are the thousands of people who started off as conspiracy theorists and then rejected that religion. Once you're out, you can see the absurdity of those who are still in. It's a religious cult, and Corbett is one of its irrational leaders.

9/11 happened because of the conflict between the death cult of Islam and the WASP support for Israel. The global power elite certainly exploited and profited from the incident, and may in fact have allowed it to happen (although the extent of the damage may have taken even them by surprise), but they didn't orchestrate it with thermite etc.

In my view, the idea that the US government orchestrated 9/11 is diverting attention away from one of the most significant problems in the world today: the suicidal death cult of Islam. The attacks of 9/11 fit perfectly into the ideology of Islamic martyrs, and the date (9/11) even has historical significance to them.

I think we can agree on this point: there's hardly any evidence for the existence of "Luciferians", while there's ample evidence for murderous Muslims, as well as super rich Zionists and WASP Freemasons. Occam's Razor supports the notion that on 9/11 a group Islamic fundamentalists made an attempt to strike at the heart of the Zionist-WASP establishment, and were surprisingly succesful. You know, as we were discussing in that thread you started several years ago: The Danger of Islam.


Voir la pièce jointe 14056

 

[zezt]

"He discounts 'spirit', and thus puts himself in with the patriarchal toxic myth-makers lineage."

I don't see the logic in this statement. The patriarchal religions all believed in spirit. And the further you move into secular circules, the more men and women have equal rights and equal opportunities. I have not seen any traces of patriarchy or misogyny in Jacque Fresco's ideas.


"Now you seem to contradict yourself. As I am sure you are aware, 'communism' without deep understanding of 'spirit' is VERY dangerous indeed?"

I wrote "communism (communalism)" to emphasize that I wasn't talking about atheistic Marxism, but about the general principle of sharing resources. There are many spiritual communes in the world where vehicles, tools and so on are shared by all members of the commune. The Venus Project proposes the creation of various "libraries", where you can borrow tools, musical instruments and so on.

I am having problems linking this VERY important chart to here, so here is the url and you should be ale to find it in Google images http://www.neopagan.net/graphics/EvolutionofDualism.gif Or just type there Evolution of Dualism
It is a chart created by Issac Bonewits and it shows the CONCEPT of 'spirit' from patriarchal religious beliefs to secualr belief and something extremely curious happens. From eg Zoroastrianism, through Gnosticism, Medieval Christianity/Islam 'spirit' is associated with the masculine, light, clarity, truth, order, purity. BUT when Scientific Materialism comes to power a dramatic shift moves 'spirit' from the right hand side of the chart to the left. NOW 'spirit is associated with the 'inferior' side along with "superstition and stagnation, sensuality, women, ambiguity, chaos, falsehood!
So THIS is what I mean about Fresco and his seeming rejection of spiritual reality--AS RELATED TO NATURE. Yes I am all for critical apprehension but he --in that video--totally discounts any reality to telepathy, and this is false. There DOES exist scientific data which shows telepathy is real.

"And it has to be said that the choice of the 'Venus' project--for those in the know about the elite Luciferian philosophy-- is utterly suspect."

To me it's just a funny synchronicity. Funny, because it's food for the WASP conspiracy theorists.

I am not a WASP conspiracy theorist. I come from a Goddess spiritual perspective, and I am not white neither. I don't see why you only assume protestant Christians, or any Christians, could find fault with the Luciferian philosophy...?

"So you think Descartes valued the animals he tortured do you...?"

No, he didn't value those animals. But it was not related to cogito ergo sum. Vivisection was going on before Descartes, and he was introduced to the practice through his Jesuit education.

You cannot be serious...!

In Introduction to Animal Rights, Gary Francione describes the inevitable results of the Cartesian position:

Descartes and his followers performed experiments in which they nailed animals by their paws onto boards and cut them open to reveal their beating hearts. They burned, scalded, and mutilated animals in every conceivable manner. When the animals reacted as though they were suffering pain, Descartes dismissed the reaction as no different from the sound of a machine that was functioning improperly. A crying dog, Descartes maintained, is no different from a whining gear that needs oil.

And you seriously don't think a toxic philosophical position which proclaims only humans can think and animals are robots didn't give these evil fuckers the excuse to torture animals like that? Please wake up!

And Descartes loved numbers too and claimed to get his knowledge via an 'angel':

Jules Beesley "But on the night of September 16th, Descartes had a dream and in this dream an angel appeared to him, this is documented by his own hand, and the angel said to Descartes, "The conquest of nature is to be achieved through measure and number." And that revelation lay the basis for modern science. Rene Descartes is the founder of the distinction between the res verins and the res extensia, the founder of modern science, the founder of the scientific method that created the philosophical engines that created the modern world. How many scientists, working at their workbenches, understand that an angel chartered modern science? It’s the alchemical angel which will not die. It returns again and again to guide the destinies of nations and peoples toward an unimaginable conclusion." -Terence McKenna
http://www.dedroidify.com/science.htm

More like their fukin Devil!!

Think about it CM, If that evil clown Descartes claims 'I think therefore I am' for the animals this must mean 'they didn't think therefore they weren't'! And this is crucially important to know because what these elites and their chosen and funded 'thinkers' do is provide the environment to continue mind control (which of course includes body control). Another evil fucker in this his story was Wilhem Wundt who claims that humans are nothing but skin bags of chemical and electrical interactions. So like Descartes' 'science' did for animals )which continues), so Wundt's 'experimental psychology' did for humans. The humans that these control freaks want to mind control. Want to make us think and feel that we are soft robots, with no self-will and if we are not happy about this scenario (a world which is created based on these vile soul-less priniples), though many of us are not even conscious of the games being played on us---then we are classed as having a "chemical imbalance' or bad genes, and then get pushed their toxic drugs, or ECT etc. This myth is meant to provide the perfect setting for their having us reduced to being mere producers and consumers for the State. So please CM start becoming aware of the larger picture of all this.

"Your views then reflect the patriarchal dualistic views of your hero, Pythagoras, and no doubt, Plato, who would see nature, and the sensual body, and women as inferior to their concept of numbers, and ideal forms which they associated with the masculine principle."

Boy, you're a master of Red Herrings. I simply state that what unites matter and spirit is mathematics, and you immediately go on a tangent about Plato, women and the masculine principle.

One moment you say it's important to accept spirit, the next you reject the very thing that can prove there IS such a thing as spirit: mathematics. I never claimed it's a masculine principle. Mathematics is neither masculine nor feminine.

No, this very much does not distract from the essential meaning. The whole notion OF 'spirit' has been abused by the patriarchal belief systems as that chart will show you. 'Spirit' has been associated with the masculine, and women with the body, matter, nature. So we have to be very careful what is being meant when that term is being used. HOW is it being used? Considering that Pythaogran is being a root source of this concept you are talking about it is very important to look at him and what his shit was all about.

“The disciples of Pythagoras also highly revered the planet Venus, because it was the only planet bright enough to cast a shadow. As the morning star, Venus is visible before sunrise, and as the evening star it shines forth immediately after sunset. Because of these qualities, a number of names have been given to it by the ancients. Being visible in the sky at sunset, it was called vesper, and as it arose before the sun, it was called the false light, the star of the morning, or Lucifer, which means the light-bearer”.
- Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages

According to sources the Pythagorean school were against sex and also laughing! And there was a five year vow of silence. Sound like a cult? that's because it was one.

"I always hated math at school"

That's not relevant. I didn't like German in school, but later on in life I realized the importance of it, and now I enjoy watching German movies. I wasn't very good at math when I was a teenager, but it's never too late to learn! And so I'm trying to catch up. Don't be intellectually lazy!

Obviously it is relevant for me. And also how the 'education' system global-wide pushes left brain subjects on their curriculim. Some how I as a kind didn't get sucked into it. Also it was taught VERY boringly and abstracted from real life.

"don't see layered electronic waterfalls of digits like was featured in the film The Matrix. I see form, and I feel from the heart."

I never claimed existence will ever be experienced like a waterfall of digits. When you listen to music, you're not aware of the mathematics behind it, even though all notes are based on certain ratios and all rhythms involve patterns of beats. When I say existence is entirely mathematical, I don't mean it is perceived as mathematical. We all know matter is composed of atoms, but we don't perceive the world as atoms moving around.

you say "entirely" mathematical which is as reductionist as saying all matter is entirely atomic. No, these are just aspects of reality, not the be all and end all. That is imposing a mono-trip on reality. Deciding 'all is math'.

"Other philosophers have tried to presume that there little insight must mean it is so for reality with 'all is water' 'all is fire' etc etc."

Yes, but none of them could prove their point. The arche can only be complete mathematics, linking spirit to matter (the realm of time and space) and vice versa.

But this appears to be YOUR religion and not mind. I don't feel it that way. I don't experience nature or reality that way, tough I can understand mathematics as an aspect of nature, obviously.

"You will never solve your puzzle putting your faith into these."

The puzzle HAS been solved. No faith is required. But you do have to overcome your aversion to mathematics. This initiation requires some personal effort.

So, I see, you know now the puzzle of reality do you?
I do not insist people know mathematics to be able to understand their own unique experience of nature and reality. I think that idea is of same ilk as 'Only through Jesus shall thou knowest the true Way'

"It might be better to call them Luciferians, because their role model and even god (though by 'god' they mean their very selves) is Lucifer, the 'light bringer'."

Actually, the Illuminati are a gnostic sect whose role model is Abraxas, who is beyond good and evil. Neither Satan (evil) nor Lucifer (moral goodness) has transcended duality. Their synthesis is Abraxas.

All Abraxis refers to is the fact these mystery schools were solar cults, because Abraxis means the sun, but best explantion for the Luciferian philosophy is by this guy. I of course do not share his Christian bias, but he seems to be a good researcher into this nevertheless and makes sense.


Lucifer is not meant to literally represent a god--though they do have an altar to 'him' in the U.N. building! Rather they are narcisistically worshipping their own intellectual and occultist prowess!

"This is the same New World Order which the senior Bush president dedicated to in his speech"

George Bush is NOT an Illuminatus! Is there ANY evidence that Bush is part of the Illuminati? George Bush is a WASP, part of the global power elite, not the gnostic resistance movement called the Illuminati.

Luciferian, Illuminati, Satanists, the Cabal. Don't matter what you call the evil shits. They ALL are part of the goal to try and pull off an horrendously oppressive globalized corporate fascism with us chipped with their toxic technology so they can do what they love best--total control over nature and others! Their 9/11 false flag was their major launhpad for this insane egomaniacal enterprise.

"You say you love numbers.....? get it??"

I don't love numbers. I simply state that the solution to the mind-body problem is complete mathematics: mind is the realm of zero (a dynamic void, in which subjective experiences can take place and choices can be made), and is related to physical existence (of positive numbers) through mathematical transforms, translating physical signals from the dimensional universe into frequencies that can be experienced by spirit in the nondimensional universe, and vice versa.

That is just a formula of abstract words and terms that really does not mean anything. It is just your IDEA.

"Can you not see CM that those who are pushing FOR a new world order will of course doubt 9/11"

I know several people, myself included, who started off as conspiracy theorists, believing the US government and/or Mossad and/or Freemasons orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. Between 2000 and 2009 I watched all the documentaries and read numerous webpages about this topic. Building 7, thermite and so on, I'm fully informed about all of these ideas. And yet in 2010 I rejected the idea, and allowed myself to study the various theories from another perspective, that of a skeptic, which turned out to be much more sensible. I'm certainly not interested in creating a sinister world order, and nor are the thousands of people who started off as conspiracy theorists and then rejected that religion. Once you're out, you can see the absurdity of those who are still in. It's a religious cult, and Corbett is one of its irrational leaders.

I have news for you CM. You still are a 'conspiracy theorist'but now think that 'we' are the conspiracy--including all the architects and scholars who question the official conspiracy theory about 19 hijackers with boxcutters and all that nonsense. The REAL conspirators mock you that you accept such a bad absurd B movie plot as that, and how they get you to not trust your own eyes, sense, and actual science!
It is typical that in your black and white dualistic universe you lump ALL your --now--opposite side into one bin of 'religion'. In your number world you do not seem to know that there are different groups in the truth movement, some of which is possibly disinformation. Because, if you are savvy to how these rich evil fucks operate they use MIND CONTROL and part of that is infiltrating groups that could be dangerous for them. So for example in the truth movement are the so-called 'no planers' who inist that there was absolutely no planes on 9/11 and it was all accomplished by TV trickery and actors etc, and these people are as against the likes of Richard Gage, and Corbit etc as you seem to be.
Then there is the Judy Wood crew who will have no talk of actual bombs on 9/11, and tyhat is was secret advanced directed energy weapons. If anyone dare contradict her she threatens them with court action and tries to have Youtube videos taken down that challenge her IDEA.
So as you can see there are different factions but you CHOOSE the official conspiracy theory.

9/11 happened because of the conflict between the death cult of Islam and the WASP support for Israel. The global power elite certainly exploited and profited from the incident, and may in fact have allowed it to happen (although the extent of the damage may have taken even them by surprise), but they didn't orchestrate it with thermite etc.

So your bugbears aseem to be Islam, and White Anglo Saxon Protestantism. Nothing about the Catholics, and the Zionists...? I suppose how the Jew/Zionists have treated the Palestinian peoples is alright with you? I am just asking. That jewish people have been led to believe they are the 'Chosen People' of 'God'. You don't think this is a very dangerous myth...? You seem to not be aware that the very patriarchy of which all these beliefs share the roots, including the occult, is a huge fukin death cult!
Apprently though, pre-1948 Jews and Arabs seemed to live relatively peacful together, but it isknown that Zionistists teamed up with Nazism so as to secure Israel as their Zionist nase and they considered the sacrifice of Jews etc a welcome deal, and that is why they use the Holocaust card so much--to get away with all manner of abuse and murder which is of the same ilk many Jews and others had to endure by the Nazis:
Check this out (note the DATE!):

“[The Israeli Mossad is] ruthless and cunning, with the capability to target U.S. forces and make it look like a Palestinian-Arab act.” -Report issued by the U.S. Army School of Advanced Military Studies (SAMS); September 2001 [Washington Times, September 10, 2001] Army Study: Mossad Could Attack US and Blame Arabs

LISTEN to this israeli soldier call what Israel is doing to Palestinians and Jewish people "war crimes"! :
Israeli Soldier Speaks Out against Zionist Israel War Crimes (BBC)

Yet, you seem to totally point finger as 'Islam' and WASPs.

See these two videos which show how Israel most defininitely were behind the 9/11 false flag!

9/11-Israeli Job? Means,Motive,Opportunity }SMOKING

9/11-Israeli Job? Means,Motive,Opportunity - YouTube
Israeli Truck Bombs On 9/11

}GUN


Zionists leaders are resported in the news and shown on TV saying how 9/11 was good for them! What more do you want?
All detectives look for MEANS, MOTIVE, and OPPORTUNITY.

In my view, the idea that the US government orchestrated 9/11 is diverting attention away from one of the most significant problems in the world today: the suicidal death cult of Islam. The attacks of 9/11 fit perfectly into the ideology of Islamic martyrs, and the date (9/11) even has historical significance to them.

It is not just the 'US Government'. It is Israel and the US but also the ideology for a New World order is shared by a transnational elite. They do not recognise soverighnty, that's the point. That is what they want to get rid of whilst they being the centralized power. The 'all seeing eye' on top of their Illuminati pyramid. having control over all of planet Earth. Globalism and New World order are just different names for Empire.
Get real, bin Laden and 19 hijackers could not pull off a stunt like a 9/11 alone. he also firstly never admitted to the attacks and rightly claimed who the real perps were, and the FBI even said there was no evidence to connect bin Laden to the attacks!
Bin Laden also worked FOR the freakin CIA originally.

I think we can agree on this point: there's hardly any evidence for the existence of "Luciferians", while there's ample evidence for murderous Muslims, as well as super rich Zionists and WASP Freemasons. Occam's Razor supports the notion that on 9/11 a group Islamic fundamentalists made an attempt to strike at the heart of the Zionist-WASP establishment, and were surprisingly succesful. You know, as we were discussing in that thread you started several years ago: The Danger of Islam.

Errrrm I do not agree there is no evidence for the Luciferians. There very much is. You just also have to see what the evil shits believe, as explained above to understand in depth hos the follow a Luciferian philosophy. As explained, 'Lucifer' represents to them their 'own' occult and technological knowledge expertise. Their fave symbol is the owl which symbolizes how they can see in the dark, and swoop down for the kill, and we are all totally unaware of what they do and are gonna do. What did Islamic fundamentalists gain from doing that...? Playing along with your theory. What did Islamic fundamentalism gain more than what the Bushes and all the corproations, war indsutry gained bombing the fuck out of the Middle East and contaminating it with dpeleted uranium, and tortuing innovent Muslims without trial etc. What, what?

And if you adhere to the They Let it Happen on Purpose or LIHOP for short--meaning the US allowed it to happen, then they would be AS guilty as if they had done it themselves (which I thinks is so). Do you not agree? If I know a murderer is going to murder you and I know that if I allow it to happen I will benefit, I am as guilty as the murderer. I hope you see this!

Voir la pièce jointe 14056[/QUOTE]

 

[Finarfin]

You guys suck :finger:
this is just a retarded discussion between two simple minded dimwits who don,t know shit.

I understand why braineater left this forum. This forum is about psychonautics, not about conspiracy, illuminati or the venus project.
I don,t need to read about this shit.

The venus project is a project for simpleminded people who want to live in a prefabricated world and who want easy answers.This project promises mountains of gold (utopia) but it,s going nowhere.
People have been talking about NWO, illuminati, conspiracy and that stupid venus project for years. I am fed up with it. This project is going nowhere.
If you want to wait till the venus project get,s off the ground good luck, it will never happen.

You guys are fucking up this forum with all this bullshit. :finger:

 

[Abej^a G.]

ehy man, dont talk about braineater. he has a lot of problems in his brain. no one can delete post beacause he wants so. we CAN'T understand braineater.
reading what you read, it did not seem, however, you're broadening the discussion of the matrix
in the opinion of them if the matrix is something hidden (a conspiracy ...) ...

 

[zezt]

a sailor of the mind/soul explores reality, which includes all subjects, and all aspects, details, nooks and crannies, and shadowy corners...where so it takes them

We may got lost in labyrinthine enclaves doing so but such is the adventure~~~~~

If you not into that, and it doesn't interest you, don't read this thread.

simple...?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

You guys are fucking up this forum with all this bullshit. :finger:

Well, the forum was already fucked after years of neglect. At least zezt is keeping the English section active.

But to make something clear: I'm neither a supporter of the Venus Project nor of Descartes.

And I do not discuss conspiracy theories (9/11, chemtrails etc.), as they are a waste of time.

 

[zezt]

Well, the forum was already fucked after years of neglect. At least zezt is keeping the English section active.

But to make something clear: I'm neither a supporter of the Venus Project nor of Descartes.

And I do not discuss conspiracy theories (9/11, chemtrails etc.), as they are a waste of time.

a contra~dicTION, because you have been doing...

the very term "conspiracy theory" is intended to be a thought-stopper. But what those who use it for do not realize is that in denying it they already are being a conspiracy theorist, except about another group(s) of people, the ones investigating the OFFICIAL conspiracy theory. When you lot question the Architects and Engineers for 9.11 Truth and accuse them of all orts, you are merely doing what you accuse us of---being part of a conspiracy to undermine officialdom

Another tactic is this---I have noticed that a majority of those who debunk 9/11 truth also debunk any investigation into the paranormal, and any anomalous experience, and what they will use to try and undermine inquiry is the pestering question "so are you prepared to take the James Randi $1 illion challenge to prove your paranormal (etc) result"?

 

[Finarfin]

Well, the forum was already fucked after years of neglect. At least zezt is keeping the English section active.

But to make something clear: I'm neither a supporter of the Venus Project nor of Descartes.

And I do not discuss conspiracy theories (9/11, chemtrails etc.), as they are a waste of time.

Who are you trying to fool. You are fooling yourself.