pyschonauticks
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What would be the difference of an adolescent taking psychedelics and an adult?
Under age psychedelic use??
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toogoodforyou
Elfe Mécanique
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Its not safe, when the brain is developing.
Adolescents can be immature when taking these substances and may abuse them. They are very prone to get carried away. I have a few 'friends' who started smoking weed very early around the age of 15 (they thought it was very cool to get fucked up) and these same people are abusing substances/alcohol now at the age of 22-23.
I feel age 18 onwards psychedelics can be used safely without much damage provided the user knows what substance is he using and researches his/her shit properly.
Adolescents can be immature when taking these substances and may abuse them. They are very prone to get carried away. I have a few 'friends' who started smoking weed very early around the age of 15 (they thought it was very cool to get fucked up) and these same people are abusing substances/alcohol now at the age of 22-23.
I feel age 18 onwards psychedelics can be used safely without much damage provided the user knows what substance is he using and researches his/her shit properly.
toogoodforyou
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Ahhfuckit, if you are 17 you can smoke weed once in a while
Caduceus Mercurius
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I don't see how psilocybin, DMT, mescaline or even LSD could be harmful to the developing nervous system. Within the proper cultural setting, these substances could be ingested (in small quantities of course) as early as age 8. A teaspoon of ayahuasca (daime) is given to children as young as 6 years old (I know two examples of that now). Lots of indigenous cultures give the children their first full dose between age 12 and 14. That would be fine here too if our culture had integrated psychedelics a little better.
I can imagine cannabis, alcohol, stimulants and depressants could be harmful.
I can imagine cannabis, alcohol, stimulants and depressants could be harmful.
figment
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Within the proper cultural setting, yes. But not in current western cultural setting I think. I took psychedelics for the first time when I just turned 19 and it completely shattered my world. I needed to reconsidered nearly everything in my life and as such for months school was going bad, but in the long run, school is going much better. Was I too young, or would I still have had this "problem" when I would have started later, I don't know.
Most people I know who were still in high school when they first took psychedelics are fuckups in life. But that doesn't necessarily mean that underage psychedelic use implies fuckup, it could also be the other way around.
At least in my own case I am very happy to not have taken psychedelics in high school, but for people who are emotionally stable anyway it may not be a big deal, even at such young age.
In general, I think you could say though, that some maturity is required to integrate the experience in a normal western life.
Most people I know who were still in high school when they first took psychedelics are fuckups in life. But that doesn't necessarily mean that underage psychedelic use implies fuckup, it could also be the other way around.
At least in my own case I am very happy to not have taken psychedelics in high school, but for people who are emotionally stable anyway it may not be a big deal, even at such young age.
In general, I think you could say though, that some maturity is required to integrate the experience in a normal western life.
Brugmansia
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There's no problem.
In some Indian cultures each male participates in a mushroom initiation at the age of 13 which brings new life (no bullshit dose).
However, the psychedelics are not the problem, but the modern society is. Which means that the youngster needs a certain degree of consistency in his behaviour/moral including a stable guide. That guide being the proper information source or an older someone who understands the likely outcome of an experience. With the proper assistence, the adolescent may integrate his experiences into his mental life which is already rapidly changing through getting older itself. Entheogenic practises might even increase the mental activity of the already turbulence years of the youth. It's very important that the youngster remains with a stable ground to stand on to work his way up within the modern society to meet his requirements for a good living. Sadly, we're not living in an environment anymore as in the movie Dances with Wolves.
Doubt, flows in conduct and beliefs are common at a younger age, so balance and consistency are essential. Most of the adolescents use their shell for protection. But with the right nutrition and awareness of how to stay healthy, it might be a God's gift. Hidden talents or intellectual competences may be found in an early state, and dedication of the youngster may eventual turn out into the actual knowledge of how to drink life at it's finest. With possibly huge ambitions of creativity.
But there's a dark side too which we shouldn't forget, youngsters are more instable than adults in every way. But there's no way to tell whether youngsters should abstain or not, it depends on too many factors.
Hey CM, what about your kids? What have you told them about mushrooms? I saw one of them held some above his head with a smile on his face. How are they influenced by your practises? Have they ever asked you for information in the depth? Have they seen you tripping? Or perhaps they already know more through their own consciousness?
In some Indian cultures each male participates in a mushroom initiation at the age of 13 which brings new life (no bullshit dose).
However, the psychedelics are not the problem, but the modern society is. Which means that the youngster needs a certain degree of consistency in his behaviour/moral including a stable guide. That guide being the proper information source or an older someone who understands the likely outcome of an experience. With the proper assistence, the adolescent may integrate his experiences into his mental life which is already rapidly changing through getting older itself. Entheogenic practises might even increase the mental activity of the already turbulence years of the youth. It's very important that the youngster remains with a stable ground to stand on to work his way up within the modern society to meet his requirements for a good living. Sadly, we're not living in an environment anymore as in the movie Dances with Wolves.
Doubt, flows in conduct and beliefs are common at a younger age, so balance and consistency are essential. Most of the adolescents use their shell for protection. But with the right nutrition and awareness of how to stay healthy, it might be a God's gift. Hidden talents or intellectual competences may be found in an early state, and dedication of the youngster may eventual turn out into the actual knowledge of how to drink life at it's finest. With possibly huge ambitions of creativity.
But there's a dark side too which we shouldn't forget, youngsters are more instable than adults in every way. But there's no way to tell whether youngsters should abstain or not, it depends on too many factors.
Hey CM, what about your kids? What have you told them about mushrooms? I saw one of them held some above his head with a smile on his face. How are they influenced by your practises? Have they ever asked you for information in the depth? Have they seen you tripping? Or perhaps they already know more through their own consciousness?
I think it's all about set and setting. For adults and for non-adults.
Adolescents are often not very stable with a lot of uncertaintities in life. All part of being young... So in those cases their set is/might be just not OK to start with psychedelics.
I can imagine the set of a lot of adolescents are actually OK, so I don't see a big problem in those cases.
There's no strict rule for age. It all depends on the person...
Adolescents are often not very stable with a lot of uncertaintities in life. All part of being young... So in those cases their set is/might be just not OK to start with psychedelics.
I can imagine the set of a lot of adolescents are actually OK, so I don't see a big problem in those cases.
There's no strict rule for age. It all depends on the person...
It appears I am on the same page as Brugmansia again. There is no intrinsic danger to the *physiology* of teenagers doing psychedelics, but the danger is in the disruption and shredding of value systems. The reason why psychedelics have value in more mature individuals is because they show you everything in contrast to 'normality'. With the ability to compare what they show you to what you already know, you have a broader perspective, and possibly the option of choosing one over the other.
These qualifiers I use as applied to the Western individual. Our Westernized culture is an immature one, unable to reconcile the value of psychedelics to personal growth and change. As mentioned, many cultures have 'coming of age' rituals which embrace the experience, but generally, these are one-time things, intended to be a metaphor of life-change, as the child enters the world of adults, where many things are seen in new relative lights.
I personally don't believe cannabis to be harmful to the physiology but to the mindsert of young ones, much like the situation of adults. The government knows cannabis isn't harmful to people, but it's utterly destructive to the paternalistic set of values known as the 'status quo'.
The psychedelics can be thought of as 'perception dilators', which affect the mind in the way a dark environment affects the pupil of the eye.
It makes it expand, and enables it to recieve more data. As a young person, your values are *already* in flux, and more data usually isn't a good thing.
The main danger is in doing psychedelics 'for kicks'. THIS is how people that begin using them at 15 are having issues with substance abuse in their 20's. They weren't initiated into the use in a proper way, seeing it as recreation instead of communing with the universe.....it doesn't matter if you're 35 years old, if you don't approach them with reverence and curiosity, you may as well be huffing paint or glue.
These qualifiers I use as applied to the Western individual. Our Westernized culture is an immature one, unable to reconcile the value of psychedelics to personal growth and change. As mentioned, many cultures have 'coming of age' rituals which embrace the experience, but generally, these are one-time things, intended to be a metaphor of life-change, as the child enters the world of adults, where many things are seen in new relative lights.
I personally don't believe cannabis to be harmful to the physiology but to the mindsert of young ones, much like the situation of adults. The government knows cannabis isn't harmful to people, but it's utterly destructive to the paternalistic set of values known as the 'status quo'.
The psychedelics can be thought of as 'perception dilators', which affect the mind in the way a dark environment affects the pupil of the eye.
It makes it expand, and enables it to recieve more data. As a young person, your values are *already* in flux, and more data usually isn't a good thing.
The main danger is in doing psychedelics 'for kicks'. THIS is how people that begin using them at 15 are having issues with substance abuse in their 20's. They weren't initiated into the use in a proper way, seeing it as recreation instead of communing with the universe.....it doesn't matter if you're 35 years old, if you don't approach them with reverence and curiosity, you may as well be huffing paint or glue.
Caduceus Mercurius
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They know about mushrooms, they know what to expect from a trip, we've looked at images by Alex Grey and talked about them, and they've seen the video of me tripping in Amsterdam. We've also seen trips in films, for example Jack Black in Pick of Destiny, the lion Alex tripping in Madagascar, Homer tripping in the Simpsons movie, and recently they tried this. They know I trip a couple times a year, and recently their mother has been going to the Santo Daime church two weeks in a row, with one or two mushroom trips in 2008. They also know all my friends have tripped on shrooms, and that their mother's friends and neighbours do ayahuasca regularly. Sometimes they make shroom jokes themselves.Brugmansia a dit:Hey CM, what about your kids? What have you told them about mushrooms? I saw one of them held some above his head with a smile on his face. How are they influenced by your practises? Have they ever asked you for information in the depth? Have they seen you tripping? Or perhaps they already know more through their own consciousness?
They know how to pick shrooms.
I've been telling my oldest son about the nervous system, receptors, and the effects of different types of drugs. I've also explained to them the basics of DNA, biological functions and the solar system. We've talked about religion, authoritarianism, "God" and the ancient use of entheogens.
I think it would be best if the two have their first experience together, so I'm waiting for the youngest one to be a little older first.
That reconsideration must come sooner or later. There's something to say for having it happen early in life.
Just curious... Did you also discuss a lot of other people do not agree with you and think it's all bad? (probably you did when religion came up)Caduceus Mercurius a dit:
But I mean... kids talk. If your son starts talking about it at school and those kids tell their mom... you can bet on it your kids will not get invited at birthdayparties and stuff like that. I see some potential problems coming up when being completely open.
I'm all about being open, don't get me wrong, but I can also defend myself. Do you 'warn' your kids about that?
just curious, how old are your children, CM?
I personally can't imagine myself taking psy at the age of 14 or so - at that time I thought that LSD would make you think you were milk or strawberry (some horror stories from my school :lol: ). I just wasn't ripe enough there. But I see that there are people that are already ready...but it is IMHO difficult to say when you are ready, when you are ripe, when you are mature. Most kids think they are mature at the age of 13 :lol: So it ain't easy but possible.
I personally can't imagine myself taking psy at the age of 14 or so - at that time I thought that LSD would make you think you were milk or strawberry (some horror stories from my school :lol: ). I just wasn't ripe enough there. But I see that there are people that are already ready...but it is IMHO difficult to say when you are ready, when you are ripe, when you are mature. Most kids think they are mature at the age of 13 :lol: So it ain't easy but possible.
Caduceus Mercurius
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Yes, I've kept them up to date about shrooms first being legal, then illegal, and now some types of shrooms being illegal again. They also understand most people are not interested in these things, and that there's a lot of opposition coming from religious people.Mycophile a dit:
My children live in sort of an eco-village, and the parents (and teachers) in their school are all into meditation and ancient cultures, some doing or having done shrooms, cannabis or ayahuasca. It could still be somewhat of a scandal, of course, and I'm concerned about that. I also know my mother wouldn't want to hear about this, for example. So we'll have to teach the kids about the meaning of 'confidential information' first. I think they'll understand.
Later on I'll write down what I have in mind for the set & setting of that first experience, as well as some precautions, expectations etc.
endlessness
Elfe Mécanique
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very nice thread everyone!
I took acid when I was 15 and soon after mushrooms, and a couple of years later ayahuasca. The acid was at a psy party and I had no clue. It obviously it shatered my world view but I integrated it very well.. I always had a certain 'existential wondering' and intuited there was something more to life so the experience was a big confirmation.
I have always gotten good grades at school, taking psychedelics occasionally (and sometimes quite often). Also just got my psychology degree with high grades, getting a 10 in the final paper, which I wrote about the therapeutic potential of entheogens.
I think this 'perspective-gaining' from psychedelics that was mentioned in the thread has been an incentive for my development in all senses, intellectual/academic, emotional/interpersonal and also physically, being more healthy and eating better.
They are great tools and with a right usage can work for some young people without any problem and even helping the development. Though its important to remember that psychedelics are not the way for all people and even in indigenous tribes there are those who do not partake. We must respect each individual's path, but yes psychedelics for teenagers I think is one possibility.
There have been made some researches already studying if there are psychologic, neurologic or psychiatric changes in teenagers who are regular users of these substances. There is one particular study im thinking about, studying teenagers in an ayahuasca church in Brazil, and there has been no detected loss, in fact even in one of the tests (forgot which) the ayahuasca users scored better than the control group. I have the publication here if anybody wants
just one more thing about mycophyle's comments on the kids possibly telling about the parents psychedelic use. I think just as one educates the kid about these substances, so does one educate about the current legal state of the world, which makes the kids know its not a subject to openly talk about with anyone.
I took acid when I was 15 and soon after mushrooms, and a couple of years later ayahuasca. The acid was at a psy party and I had no clue. It obviously it shatered my world view but I integrated it very well.. I always had a certain 'existential wondering' and intuited there was something more to life so the experience was a big confirmation.
I have always gotten good grades at school, taking psychedelics occasionally (and sometimes quite often). Also just got my psychology degree with high grades, getting a 10 in the final paper, which I wrote about the therapeutic potential of entheogens.
I think this 'perspective-gaining' from psychedelics that was mentioned in the thread has been an incentive for my development in all senses, intellectual/academic, emotional/interpersonal and also physically, being more healthy and eating better.
They are great tools and with a right usage can work for some young people without any problem and even helping the development. Though its important to remember that psychedelics are not the way for all people and even in indigenous tribes there are those who do not partake. We must respect each individual's path, but yes psychedelics for teenagers I think is one possibility.
There have been made some researches already studying if there are psychologic, neurologic or psychiatric changes in teenagers who are regular users of these substances. There is one particular study im thinking about, studying teenagers in an ayahuasca church in Brazil, and there has been no detected loss, in fact even in one of the tests (forgot which) the ayahuasca users scored better than the control group. I have the publication here if anybody wants
just one more thing about mycophyle's comments on the kids possibly telling about the parents psychedelic use. I think just as one educates the kid about these substances, so does one educate about the current legal state of the world, which makes the kids know its not a subject to openly talk about with anyone.
Caduceus Mercurius
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7 and 9restin a dit:
toogoodforyou
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Caduceus Mercurius a dit:
They could be harmful psychologically if enough care is not taken. Imagine a kid getting a scary trip. It would be bad if the kid wasn't prepared.
But yeah, i understand your point of view... it could be very benefitial if the right kid takes the right psychedelic.
Brugmansia
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What one disseminates the most to people if the path is done with diligence, is rationalism, modesty, serenity, frankness, susceptibility and sincerity. And continence from giving critic to amplify the awareness of self-being. Etc. etc.
It's not like you always have to defend yourself or your relatives for your practises if some approach you with the thought that it does not appeal to them. The way you live is an answer in the long-term and even though outsiders might not get their hands on the understanding how you have gotten yourself there, they notice sooner or later that it's sanity. If you stay polite and open too, you more or less get your license of freedom based on mutual morals. I doubt anyone, no matter what identity or roots one has, feels uncomfortable with the company of a psychonaut.
It's not like you always have to defend yourself or your relatives for your practises if some approach you with the thought that it does not appeal to them. The way you live is an answer in the long-term and even though outsiders might not get their hands on the understanding how you have gotten yourself there, they notice sooner or later that it's sanity. If you stay polite and open too, you more or less get your license of freedom based on mutual morals. I doubt anyone, no matter what identity or roots one has, feels uncomfortable with the company of a psychonaut.
greenwizard
Alpiniste Kundalini
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Like any regular use of drugs, using psychedelic use can be harmful to ones health,
but I'm 14 and I have tried LSD, besides a few days of slight different mental state, I was fine.
I have very nice grades at school . and I use regularly cannabis.
But it really depends in who uses psychedelics, in some cases , it can go the bad way.
but I'm 14 and I have tried LSD, besides a few days of slight different mental state, I was fine.
I have very nice grades at school . and I use regularly cannabis.
But it really depends in who uses psychedelics, in some cases , it can go the bad way.
i know plenty of people who grew up during the acid craze of the 90s, some of them ended up moving on into amazing fields of sciences and arts partially because of their experiences, and they are smart cookies. it is such a great tool if you approach it properly
i do know more people though who overdid it at some point while growing up and ended up ruining it for themselves permanently, recreational or not
for me, i'm glad i didnt take acid until my mid-late 20's. i just had so much more life to react to. i had spent years exploring my senses without the use of drugs, discovered art and music without drugs, learned how to change my consciousness without drugs. when i took acid i really noticed the permanent shift in my perceptions before and after, and the way i use it is different from almost anyone else i've met (in the real, offline world). but that's me
i do know more people though who overdid it at some point while growing up and ended up ruining it for themselves permanently, recreational or not
for me, i'm glad i didnt take acid until my mid-late 20's. i just had so much more life to react to. i had spent years exploring my senses without the use of drugs, discovered art and music without drugs, learned how to change my consciousness without drugs. when i took acid i really noticed the permanent shift in my perceptions before and after, and the way i use it is different from almost anyone else i've met (in the real, offline world). but that's me
