Trying to argue with an anti-drug government

[Forkbender]

What do you guys think is the best approach to argue with governments or government-organisations that use false propaganda in their cause for a drug free country? Is it possible at all?

Reason I'm asking is this: Recently I came across this site theantidrug.com, which is basically a site warning American parents for the dangers of drugs. There was a test on this site where you could see if your knowledge about cannabis ('marijuana') was correct. Naturally I only had one out of five answers correct.

The impression I got was that the 'scientific data' used in this test was significantly biased. So I decided to write them an email from their site:

I don't like the way you present the information on this site. Most research quoted is biased in certain ways and links between drug use and criminal behaviour is certainly not as clear and distinct as you seem to think. For example in the cute Marijuana quiz you have: it uses data that is produced by a government that just want to show that their war on drugs works and is morally grounded. This is not true. I hope you will look into the facts more thoroughly. For example: in Holland, where marijuana can be obtained by people over 18 legally, the amount of teens under 18 using marijuana is smaller than in the surrounding countries where marijuana is illegal. I don't mind you spreading information about the dangers of drugs, to the contrary, but one has to be honest in doing so, otherwise one is just substituting one drug for another (false propaganda).

Regards, Pxxxxx

Their reply was more extensive than I expected, which is a good sign to me:

Dear Pxxxxx,

Thank you for contacting TheAntiDrug.com.

We appreciate you taking the time to share your comments with us.
Your comments have been noted.

The following resource and Web site provide information about
marijuana and why it remains a controlled substance:

Denial of Marijuana Rescheduling
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/pub ... 041801.pdf

Speaking Out Against Drug Legalization
http://www.dea.gov/demand/speakout/index.html

If you would like to view information about marijuana and its
effects, please visit the following Web sites:

The DEA Position on Marijuana
http://www.dea.gov/marijuana_position.html

Marijuana Myths & Facts: The Truth Behind 10 Popular Misperceptions
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/pub ... yths_facts
/

What Americans Need to Know About Marijuana
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/pub ... now_marij/

Marijuana Abuse Research Report
http://www.drugabuse.gov/ResearchReport ... fault.html

Marijuana Facts and Figures
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/dru ... index.html

Marijuana-Info.org
http://www.marijuana-info.org/

Please contact us again if you have any future questions or comments.

Thank you,

Sxxxxx
TheAntiDrug.com
***************************************
MethResources.gov
Visit ONDCP's MethResources Web site - http://www.methresources.gov -
for information about methamphetamine, its effects and hazards,
upcoming meth-related events, policies and legislation, programs, and
publications and research.
***************************************
Disclaimer:
The enclosed response may include referrals to non-Federal Government
resources.
The resources, and the information contained therein, are only as
reliable and complete as their originating source.
Responsibility for the quality/accuracy of the information rests with
the original source.

I was, however, kind of dissappointed in the sites they linked to, so I send them another email, on which I have not received a reply yet:

Dear Sxxxxx,

Thanks for your extensive reply. However, I remain unconvinced by your line of argument, simply because you only quote government sites and 1 site that is sponsored by the government, instead of sites showing independent scientific data, unaltered and not preselected by some instance that follows ideology. Ideological pseudoscience can in my mind never justify any legal boundaries.

I will look into the matter more carefully in the near future and will see if I can find other sources that do follow the basic scientific rules that support your claims.

Regards,

Pxxxxx

What do you guys think about this? Should I continue this debate, or is it like talking to a wall? Is the American government susceptible to reason or do they ward of any possible rejection of their ideology? Find out in the next installment of "trying to argue with an anti-drug government".

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

They probably don't read your emails. It's pointless.

 

[Meduzz]

I also took the quiz

Question 4: Marihuana leads to changes in the brain that are similar to which of the following?

A: Cocaine
B: Heroin
C: Alcohol
D: All of the above

The correct answer was D :shock: :shock: :shock:

BUNCH OF RETARDS :evil:

 

[JustinNed]

I think it will be like talking to a wall, I have a feeling they'll stop responding.

 

[ararat]

I think it will be like talking to a wall, I have a feeling they'll stop responding.

I have a feeling they are using automated answers.

 

[Guest]

they'll listen to you as much as you are listening to them.
or do you think they will e-mail you saying: "OMG!!!!you are right!!!!we're sorry "

 

[BrainEater]

their system is of too much worth for them to quit it just because of the freedom of the people.

 

[Forkbender]

I also took the quiz

Question 4: Marihuana leads to changes in the brain that are similar to which of the following?

A: Cocaine
B: Heroin
C: Alcohol
D: All of the above

The correct answer was D :shock: :shock: :shock:

BUNCH OF RETARDS :evil:

That's what triggered me as well.

 

[Forkbender]

they'll listen to you as much as you are listening to them.
or do you think they will e-mail you saying: "OMG!!!!you are right!!!!we're sorry "

I agree. I'm willing to listen to their arguments, though.

 

[Forkbender]

their system is of too much worth for them to quit it just because of the freedom of the people.

my goal isn't to overturn the entire system (that would be far-fetched), it's just to make some people within those organisations a little bit more aware about the ambiguity and contingency of it all.

 

[BrainEater]

their system is of too much worth for them to quit it just because of the freedom of the people.

my goal isn't to overturn the entire system (that would be far-fetched), it's just to make some people within those organisations a little bit more aware about the ambiguity and contingency of it all.

well its kind of part of the system as it is a law... also in the sense that maybe not everything goes quite right there.... i mean many people can profit from this laws ... also mind expansion is probably not quite accepted by many people who are politicians as they are thin-minded in a way. i mean there are ppl there who you can talk to reasonably and some with whom you can not do that.
with great luck a man in a high position is such a man, but then he can get in trouble also by doing things like that i dunno.... its fucked up....

 

[Guest]

I think it just comes down to what those people were made to believe in...

I once had a quick talk with a cop at a police station (got sort of caught ordering shrooms, in the end they just let me go without doing anything, thanks Erowid for teaching me how to deal with them ), he asked me why the fuck someone like me, who's a student with an ordinary life would want to take shrooms...

I felt bad for him, as he represented what most people think when hearing about psychoactives...

I even tried to point the same issue as you did Fork, ie I asked him why they were giving false informations to the public (before talking with them i read a doc about drugs risks, in which was writtent that LSD is toxic to your organs), and pointed out this specific example...

He looked very embarrased, and finally told me "Well, those docs are old, so the informations may not be up to date"

I then asked him if he knew that the reals risk of acid have been know for something like fifty years.

He got angry, and didn't want to talk about it anymore...

I think it's just sad...

Btw I stopped trying to open everyone's eyes, it's just pointless and a waste of time... Gosh, I never said to someone "Come on, acid is just great, you should try it !", I only asked them to go and look for the REAL risk on some website with REAL SCIENTIFIC DATA...

I find it to be sooooo frustrating that asking them to do something SO EASY to do is already too much for the conditioning...

Guess that's why I see the whole humankind as a bunch of morons, for me everyones stupid and I'm not going to try to change that BUT I'll give everyone a chance to prove me that he's/she's not like the others...

 

[phalaris]

What do you guys think about this? Should I continue this debate, or is it like talking to a wall?

Don't spend your energy on it. Keep on emailing only if you really like it, and when it *gives* you energy. It is probably not even 1 person you are emailing with, and they get paid to answer the mails.

 

[Forkbender]

What do you guys think about this? Should I continue this debate, or is it like talking to a wall?

Don't spend your energy on it. Keep on emailing only if you really like it, and when it *gives* you energy. It is probably not even 1 person you are emailing with, and they get paid to answer the mails.

I will. For now it helps me strengthen my own thought about the subject, but I can imagine that at some point there's no use arguing any longer.

 

[st.bot.32]

Their stance:

Drugs (that we say are bad) are bad. Therefore people who use those drugs are bad. Therefore whatever people who use drugs say about drugs is bad, and we can ignore them, because drugs are bad. QED

 

[st.bot.32]

What do you guys think is the best approach to argue with governments or government-organisations that use false propaganda in their cause for a drug free country? Is it possible at all?

Fight their propaganda with positive information, and by setting a positive example.

That's why here in Canada pot smoking is on the rise, and is increasingly socially acceptable (except among the clueless conservative heehaws and their cronies). When everyone knows a few pot smokers, and that the majority of pot smokers are leading perfectly normal productive lives, and would just rather have a toke than a beer, and aren't violent (unlike many alcoholics) and just want to be left alone, it becomes pretty obvious that anti-mj propaganda is just outdated ideological hype.

That being said we are going to have to up the scale of positive information. The recent UN meeting on drugs as part of its agenda wants to demonize drug users even further, including celebrities who use "drugs", basically to censor any kind of pro-legalization arguments.

 

[Guest]

1

 

[endlessness]

on a side note... if anybody wants the official information where it proves that netherlands has less weed use and drug-related deaths than neighbouring countries such as italy, germany, spain, france, UK and few others, the website is:
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/

as for the original topic.. I think you are going the right way.. maybe its no use, but it´s not like you´re losing too much anyways, and who knows, maybe it might just open a little bit the eyes of someone.. A few years ago I wrote a quite ´angry´ email to the united nations office on drugs or something like that, after they made a totally bullshit publication on drug use.. Here´s it.. Nowadays I would have written it differently, with more facts and less emotions, but anyways.. obviously they didnt answer haha

Am I the only one that finds absurd how United Nations can make war on drugs, while forgetting about LEGAL drugs (166 out of 100.000 illicit drug users die, while 506 out of 100.000 licit drug users die in the USA, for example).

Your view on drugs is based on misinformation and lobby influences, of course, with a ´sprinkle´ of truth here and there..

Anyone making a historical research on drugs, will easily see that there are drug users since the beginning of human history (chinese using weed since thousands of years before christ, for example), and how it is deeply linked to the beginning of many spiritual practices.. Not only that, but certain animals also get purpousely high on drugs. How can you even have the pretension to stop such a natural phenomenon? Wouldnt it be a bit more practical and valid to try to EDUCATE people about it, helping people making informed conscious choices about their drug use (including licit drugs of course) ?

but there is no ethics in your words... while you try to point out how weed create psychotic episodes ( a claim with no scientific base, since psychotic episodes have never been found to have any specific cause, but only influential factors of all kinds, EQUALLY INCLUDING LEGAL DRUGS OR OTHER NON-DRUG-RELATED EXPERIENCES), you forget to use your strenght in more useful practices, such as being against the advertisement in tv of legal drugs (like beer commercials that associate alcohol with fun, an attitude that will thus get internalized and spread as natural, causing so many problems of course)

in all your publications, there is no mention of ´conscious drug use´, for example.. how can you deny the truth? there is obviously such a thing, but with the misinformation aided by your practices, it makes it even harder for drugs to be used intelligently.

of course im not denying that there is a lot of abuse, or addiction, but not only with illicit drugs.. with legal drugs, with sex, with food, with everything..

How about ibogaine? how comes you all dont talk about the extreme effectiveness of ibogaine in the treatment of opiates addiction, softening considerably the withdrawal symptoms and providing deep insights about previous negative habits ? Or what about the fact that in Netherlands there is less marijuana use than in the neighbouring countries, even though its legal.


the only way of bringing a healthier relation between mankind and drugs is by raising the awareness, with non-biased information (unlike what you guys reproduce), that tells of both sides, the advantages and disadvantages of each drug, and letting people choose for themselves, while making intelligent damage reduction measures..

but of course, you are all pretentious and brainwashed enough to think you have the right to decide in what ways people are allowed to alter their consciousness, isn’t it? ´you know what’s best for us´, right?

and I wont even start on making laws against the existance of plants.. how ridiculous, to FORBID THE EXISTENCE OF NATURAL PLANTS... No Im not saying you are personally responsible for it, but by working in the United Nations office on drugs and crime, you obviously are ´inside´ enough to have a positive influence in this question, that could help changing the general attitude in relation to the laws on drugs

I wonder if you all remember how it was in your childhood, before you became such automatons, reproducing speeches of which you have no real Consciousness of... hopefully some day you will see.