Trusting/Doubting your senses

[st.bot.32]

One of the things I have learned from using psychedelics, is the power of belief, expectation, and memory in shaping and filtering the information we get from our senses. The mind is constantly trying to sort and order the world around us based on our experience, and quite frequently just makes shit up in the process. As a small example: after a couple years of studying Chinese characters, when I saw signs from a distance I could no longer tell if the text was in English or Chinese, my brain would fill in the details almost erratically.

What I'm getting at here stems from my usage of psychedelics as a wonderful tool to explore my senses, explore memory, and learn, and heal. (And attempting to compact my thoughts into a brief soundbite that is ADHD internet-friendly.) A particular example:

Imagine primitive man seeing an unexplainable phenomenon for the first time, like lightning, the aurora, etc. Naturally, it is attributed to the supernatural. Such is the belief and experience of the person witnessing the phenomenon, hence the interpretation of the event. Now imagine modern man stumbling upon a powerful phenomenon like psychedelics.

I know some who in my view take their experiences far too literally--much like the above example of man's historical habit of attributing all unknowns to his/her religion. I see this as but an interpretation of events that reinforces one's preexisting belief (much like I used to interpret the world during my religious upbringing). When I have had spiritual trips, I go with it--I follow the thought patterns to see where they lead, and even if I don't take it literally after the trip, during the trip it always brings me to a fascinating place and leaves me with some new ideas. (There are documented reports of Christians who have taken psychedelics and had profound religious experiences.)

I'm focusing on the spiritual side of psychedelics (probably because I know occasional users who develop some kind of messiah complex over time) here but that really is only one small facet of what I'm getting at--questioning and interpreting the information you receive from your senses, and why you are perhaps interpreting things the way you are. And not necessarily on psychedelics, the same could be applied to everyday life. I think questioning in general is a healthy thing. It puts the ego in its place. It tends to lead away from sheeple mentality, groupthink, leads toward new possibilities and destroys the effectiveness of propaganda.

Thoughts and experiences?

 

[Pariah]

Yup, about questioning: its something that comes up alot in my life, the questioning even makes its way into what I write, which reminds me of something that happened recently.

The example:

In uni we have a creative writing group, I usually just do parody / comedy or philosophy pieces, (not usually a big fan of poetry), but someone set a challenge to do a piece of poetry inspired by Tippets song 'a child of our time.' to fit on a postcard (with an example to help). 'A child of our time' deals with the begining of WWII, and uses religious and philosophical imagery throughout.

The example postcard was a poem about windows, which is referencing the first nazi supported pogrom against the jews (which involved the breaking of jewish owned windows).

Here's the poem I came up with:

Through the dark glass of perceived truth

A stone against dogma

Shatters reality


but more importantly, here's the first paragraphs of an explanation I wrote, and afterwards I'll show the relevance:

Tippets “A Child of Our Time

 

[GOD]

"Through the dark glass of perceived truth

A stone against dogma

Shatters reality "

Sounds good , like one of those Japanese ones . Whatever they are called ?

 

[st.bot.32]

They were correct I think, practically speaking its a lot easier to communicate ideas (and they have more impact) when they are definite, but still an interesting observation to come up in an anti-authority poem.

I'm having trouble finding the words I'm looking for but it is something about that fuzzy place where ideas begin, and how deciding on an idea filters out the potential for other lines of thought.

It's true, academic writing in general must sound confident, self-assured and authoritative, even if it is horribly, horribly wrong or narrow as a gutter. Nice twist, extending the ideas of the poem into the explanation

Whatever they are called ?

Are you thinking of haiku? Haiku are usually written in English as three short lines... but technically the 3 lines have 5 syllables, 7 syllables, 5 syllables respectively.. (primes! oooh)

 

[GOD]

Yes thats what i ment , arent they Japanese ?

As i was reading your post , in the middle of todays religeous service , = watching Bundy some one said that word . Does this mean that there is a GOD.......

 

[st.bot.32]

Yeah, it's a type of Japanese poetry..

Its funny you mention it, whenever an unusual word comes up in discussion or I learn a new unusual word, it always seems to start popping up everywhere. Proof that there is a God.. of literacy..

 

[BrainEater]

Proof that there is a God.. of literacy..

G.O.D.

peace.

:weedman:

 

[Rymmen]

It's true, academic writing in general must sound confident, self-assured and authoritative, even if it is horribly, horribly wrong or narrow as a gutter. Nice twist, extending the ideas of the poem into the explanation

One of the reasons that I find academic traditions anti-intellectual.

 

[????????]

Psychedelics taught me not to trust my senses; not entirely I mean.

I bet the majority of people in the world take things they experience and they think that's the way it is, just like that.... this is like one of the first lessons in the psychonaut book isn't it?

 

[BrainEater]

I bet the majority of people in the world take things they experience and they think that's the way it is, just like that.... this is like one of the first lessons in the psychonaut book isn't it?

i think it's the hardest lesson to learn.

 

[Rymmen]

Well, I've learnt that although my interpretation of what I experience is subjective, I still trust my senses. I am conscious that there are more than one ways of interpreting the same thing, though. I don't think objective reality can be directly experienced.

 

[BrainEater]

i am not so sure about that having become the sofa i was sitting on when i smoked salvia....


edit: forgot to write that i love the poem. the truth in it is overwhelming. for me it expresses the mistrust against some human traditions. also it expresses that the mistrust is NECESSARY for survival of intelligent free humans.

 

[st.bot.32]

Yeah, and I've observed the formation of imagined memories and places while tripping.. observed that merely a word or even a simple shape, gesture or facial expression can trigger a memory with an emotional reaction associated with it.. observed that basically without complete information, the brain just fills in the gaps with whatever it can..

Being aware that it is impossible to be completely objective is a partial victory I suppose.

 

[BrainEater]

Being aware that it is impossible to be completely objective is a partial victory I suppose.

for a stone it's not impossible is it ??? or is it??

 

[Pariah]

"forgot to write that i love the poem"

Thanks, I'm quite surprised It came together as easily as it did - a day or two of the ideas floating in my head, then all came together in a flash while listening to psychonautica.

Also made a similar one which was a bit easier to understand, to go at the end of my (rather lengthy) explanation... I like the first one better though:

Cold air invisible but undeniable

Unquestionable authority

Another illusion to break through

 

[Rymmen]

Being aware that it is impossible to be completely objective is a partial victory I suppose.

for a stone it's not impossible is it ??? or is it??

Is a rock aware?

 

[BrainEater]

Being aware that it is impossible to be completely objective is a partial victory I suppose.

for a stone it's not impossible is it ??? or is it??

Is a rock aware?

no idea i have never talked to a rock nor do i know people who have done so.
but i heard rock's don't talk so much so it's probably hard to find out.

pariah the first poem is really cool too, it kind of reminds me of the first you posted... like another facet or perspective of the same feeling...


st.bot yeah the brain fills the gaps... that's why it can be so powerful, because it just does the jobs automatically ... but also if you let your brain control you too much, because you're too lazy then you no longer know what you're doing.
you may have an idea of it or an impression, but you don't know what you are doing as long as the balance of control between consciousness and brain is on the side of the brain... :axe:

peace. :weedman:

 

[buffachino]

A rock is aware because we are aware of a rock. But it isn’t aware that it is a rock, only that it is aware. And the idea of a rock is more a part of us than it is of the rock, because the rock is in truth totally incomprehensible to the construct placed upon it, only in order to reduce the experience to an evocative symbol that can be categorised and stored.

So the rock is really more aware of us than we are of ourselves.

 

[Rymmen]

A rock is aware because we are aware of a rock.

What makes you say that?

 

[buffachino]

Well awareness is what binds us together and defines us as separate, so if I am aware of something, it is both a result and a part of that awareness.
Thus, the rock is aware, because I am aware.