Timothy Leary - Visionary or Fool

[itsscience]

All the talk of T Leary in the "killing the ego" topic got me to doing some research on this fellow (I previously knew very little about him).

So he seems to have done some interesting research on rehabilitation of criminals using psylocibin (and therapy) and his early research into LSD was being received positively.

However, it seems that following his dismissal from Harvard he degenerated into a celebrity loving party boy. It would appear that his actions in large part contributed to the criminalisation of LSD. Prior to this there seemed to have been quite a bit of LSD and entheogenic research being conducted.

I know many on here consider him to be a cult figure and the definitive authority on psychedelic experiences but from what I have read I see him as a man who started out with some great ideas but who fell by the wayside along the way. He may have been a revolutionary in the 60's but I think we have come a long way since then and we should follow our own intellectual paths rather than relying on the musings of the man who contributed to the difficulties we have in accessing entheogens.

After all the psychedlic experience is totally subjective and MY psychedelic experience is not YOUR psychedlic experience or Tim Leary's.

Please feel free to persuade my that I am incorrect in this view

 

[IJesusChrist]

I don't follow any figure in my research and experimentation in psychodelics - they all seem crazy or egocentric to me.

T. Leary is a very grounded fellow in alot of his research, but seemed to think he knew it all.

The only person I have ever regaurded as a figure really worth following is shulgin. His blend of scientific knowledge with entheogens makes him humbled by their power. He often speaks about entheogens in a single page in length, even LSD. He knows that they are tools, and that he is an animal playing with them, constructing them, and examaning them.

I don't think anyone knows enough on how these compounds work to spread an entire book on their true meanings.

I personally have my own theories on what these molecules do, and it is very different than the "celebrities" - leary, dawkins, pinchbeck, that other guy who's name escapes me at the moment. They all seem to gain ego after psychodelic use, rather than lose it, which seems odd to me.

I am very uneducated in all their teachings as well, and would like to keep it that way. The topic does not intrigue me alot from other's points of view - that may be my own ego sticking out, but I see little benefit to other's "trips" in the integration of my own. . .

I am being broad here, though, and I do respect their writings very much, but they are not at all masters of these molecules, just children in the sandbox like the rest of us.

 

[itsscience]

"just children in the sandbox like the rest of us."

^+1

I'll go one step further and say some of these guys made so much noise in the sandbox that the adults came over and tried to put a stop to the games.

 

[McAllister]

You can only quote Timothy Leary as an authority to a person who believes he's an authority, otherwise quoting any of his texts means very little, so you're not incorrect, it is a subjective thing. Timothy Leary had his ego failings, but he did leave behind a body of work that could help guide and inspire psychonauts. I prefer to look at the legacy a person like Leary left behind rather than take any special interest in the faults of his ego.

I see myself as a Gnostic, so for me the only higher authority at this moment in time is my higher consciousness, but I find reading about the experiences of people like Leary, Crowley and Robert Anton Wilson inspirational. They're not be all and end all authorities, but they're people who've been to places in their higher consciousness well before I did mine and they published books about their experiences. I enjoy comparing their experiences to mine and I can use their experiences and knowledge as guidance. I feel if I didn't read their books and have the right kind of knowledge and guidance in my head, then it wouldn't be in my internal database and my higher consciousness couldn't have directed me to that knowledge and guidance during and after my trips.

 

[EndlessEntity]

^1+

we're all only human. Leary did great things and silly things. some were perhaps both

 

[MrEmo]

many of the pioneers appear as fools in retrospect

 

[IJesusChrist]

all very good points. I don't want to belittle any of them, nor put them on the throne... take them as peers, not advisors. particularily in this realm of thought.

 

[ararat]

Dawkins does psychedelics? huh? seems they failed to humble him.. he had a few good ideas, but his atheistic crusade is tiring to follow.


I always enjoyed reading other peoples ideas and experiences. I'm an avid reader of various people and old spiritual literature (Bhagavad Gita etc.), some seem to stick their ego out more, some less. with Tolle I had the impression that there was no such thing present, with Hawkins I'm not so sure. maybe because he's so goddamn confident in the things he says. either way, all I read helped my slightly to tremendously. to stick to "my thing" would leave me with a rather narrow perspective, I think.


as for Leary, I'm very fond of the 8-Circuit Model of Consciousness, but I got into it with a book by Wilson. a friend of mine gave me Info-Psychology by Leary, but it was unreadable. everything is super-quantum post-larval, and pre-cyber etc.. lots of fancy words, but their meaning won't present itself unless you try really really really hard.

 

[IJesusChrist]

to stick to "my thing" would leave me with a rather narrow perspective, I think.

it does, look at me.

 

[ararat]

so, you choose to be in this position?

or, in case you felt offended, it wasn't meant to do so.

 

[IJesusChrist]

No I do put myself in that position. I like to learn about something until I feel I know every aspect of it, then I lend my brain to others. Often times I stay closed, but sometimes I blossom. If I go into something with little knowledge, but read someone of great knowledge I don't tend to believe them... that is just how i operate.

 

[Lazarus]

(and some others)

I don`t like hero worship.If i were to have a hero it would be my teacher,partner,friend,guide and mentor.Other than that i don`t see many people in our scene who i look up to.If i did have heroes it would be Albert Hofmann,Alexander Shulgin,Richard Evans Schultes,Richard Kemp and me.

As far as T.Leary is concerned just as anyone i see positive and negative things to say and think about him.The press says lots about him that is true and lots that is absolute rubbish.If it wasn`t for T.Leary we would not live in the world we do.We would not have seen so much LSD and other entheogens and i seriously doubt if this web site and others like it would exist.We owe him very very much.The only negative thing i see in what he did was his Tibetan book of the dead version and the massive problems and misunderstandings it has caused.

max is a perfect example of the damage that can be done by people reading things that they don`t understand and then preaching their sickness to the masses.

 

[ArthBH]

Personally, I think Leary is a cock. Psychonautics isn't about being excessive, like Leary was, just in the same way that appreciating wine isn't about being an alcoholic. This isn't to say that I dislike him, or am even against the excessive use of psychedelics -after all, Hunter S. Thompson is one of my heroes. But the way Leary was so delusional about himself, and the way he thought he was such a genius was a fault only enhanced by his excessive use of LSD, and I can't help but wonder if that was half the reason he took it. When it comes to notable psychonauts, Terrence McKenna is the man, imo. A legendary thinker, an eccentric, but not a delusional, wishy washy, self-satisfied twit like Leary.

 

[ararat]

be wary that a lot of propaganda has been directed against leary.

can you argument why mckenna is the man? I liked the few youtube videos, but it wasn't like he had a great influence in me

 

[ArthBH]

Well perhaps I was a little harsh on Leary. But just because he had the most influence doesn't make him the man, in exactly the same that The Beetles weren't the greatest band ever. And I like how modest McKenna is, and how jovial he is about his consistently wacky but always brilliant ideas and theories. Leary, I realise, has done wonders to the reputation of LSD, and for that we should all be thankful. But I dislike the way he acted like such a preacher, and also his rather academic tone. It almost seems if he tries too hard. None-the-less McKenna and Leary were friends, so he was probably a good bloke when he wasn't on his soapbox. Also, I can't help thinking that all the pressure from the media, and all the accusations of him being the cause thousands of 'LSD related deaths', fucked him up a bit. McKenna always stayed a little out of the limelight, and he had such a kindly personality that he was either off the radar for most people, or most people simply didn't have the heart to attack or challenge him. Just my opinion.

 

[Vandraren]

I'll go for the visionary category.
I've always liked the title 'Galileo of Consciousness' for Leary, because it catches all the important details. Although I have never seen any real reason to believe his ideas (specifically the 8-circuit model) outside of my own experience, I can really appreciate how far he stuck his neck out for them. Martyr is definitely too strong a word for it, but he definitely took a bunch of unnecessary heat for his ideas. There is just way too much slander and misinformation about him. I'm quite sure I'm not the only person on this forum who was shocked to find out he was actually a scientist!
Sure his style of writing is a bit 'out there' and incomprehensible, but I still find it very entertaining. Continuing the same vibe as some earlier posts: does a visionary necessarily have to be correct?

On top of that, he's the reason why we have the controlled substances act instead of the marijuana tax stamp thing. No seriously: check out Leary vs. United States if you're interested.

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