Timothy Leary, opinions

[st.bot.32]

I was going to post this in another topic but realized that it is better posted under its own heading.

There are a lot of opinions regarding Leary's activities, and whether he did more harm than good. Perhaps if it wasn't for his movement psychedelics might not have been outright demonized and banned.

I personally feel that if somebody hadn't brought psychedelics into the limelight these extremely potent psychological tools would be exclusively in the hands of the Powers that Be. I would find that far more worrisome in the long run.

As an example of this, besides therapeutic human trials, there were totally abusive human LSD trials that took place on unsuspecting victims in the mid 20th century, when nobody even knew what a psychedelic was. (The terror at going into a trip not so much unprepared, as not even knowing what was happening to you or what a psychedelic was, I can't imagine).

 

[GOD]

Its the same with T.Leary , T.Mckenna , curanderos , shamen , you and me and everyone else . We are all not perfect , we all dont know everything , we all have something to learn and we can all give and take and learn from eachother . And we all have our place and something positive to offer . But as Hendrix wrote " you cant believe everything you see and hear can you " .

 

[LiquidL]

I think Leary became a media whore and he publicized LSD in the wrong light. He should have been much more subtle and practical. I think Aldous Huxley was a good example of the kind of positive publicity that psychedelics needed at the time...

 

[GOD]

The thing about A.Huxley is that we now , looking back in time , have all heard about his LSD experience , at the time he had it virtualy no one knew about it . If you had asked people what LSD stood for in those days they would have nearly all answered LSD stands for Pounds , Shillings and Pence , because that is what it did stand for then in England .

Timothy leary has had a lot of bad publicity , most of wich was forced on him by a sensation hunting press and the paranoid establishment . Most of his drug problems came because of posesion of cannabis not LSD , there are no records of him doing any damage to people with halucingens . Albert Hofmann said that at the time Leary was experimenting with LSD in public sessions he was against it , but later he saw that Leary was one of the main reasons that LSD didnt fade into the background and disapeare . I think you can read about that in "LSD my problem child" . The people of the music and film industrys and the middle class people that Leary turned on ensured that LSD stayed alive . T.Leary did very much serious research with LSD and his work remains the backbone of the LSD knowledge that we have today . He also did lots of research with Psilocybin , without him that would also not have the position in science or our world that it does today .

 

[Brugmansia]

Leary has practically jelled all the kids together to feed LSD as candy. But not telling that this sweet substance would have a bitter taste when used all together when doing uncontrable intakes.

LSD, should be used in a very sober, neutral state. One needs to start with a physical fresh state, and had a decent amount of sleep and appetite should be statisfied.

As for the environment, it should be a bunker (own house with no noises on the street) for the tripper with all comfort, strawberry's; soft bed; enough oxygen; all music material working; mirror/photo's etc ready; no obligations after.

LSD needs to be ingested by each individual itself based on quality turn-ons, and not on quantity turn-ons to form groups.

The loudy impulsiveness, fastness, extravagant appearance which Leary try to combine with LSD is exactly the opposite of what LSD speaks in the human mind.

Nevertheless, if Leary didn't do the 60's distribution, someone would have filled in his role. And he also had positive contributions to the psychedelic culture. The authorities are also guilty, since a total prohibition is a sign that there never did indepedent research.

 

[Meduzz]

Albert Hofmann said that at the time Leary was experimenting with LSD in public sessions he was against it , but later he saw that Leary was one of the main reasons that LSD didnt fade into the background and disapeare . I think you can read about that in "LSD my problem child" .

In LSD, my problem child, the ideas about Leary are negative, i didn't read much about Leary doing good things for acid. (But i had the english translation and i remember that you said the translation was bad).

Well i have ambigous feelings about Leary, after all, he was greatly responsible for LSD's escape from the laboratory, which might be a good thing, but it lead to prohibition.

Before Leary, mescaline and LSD were for the intelectual elite... Maybe it wouldn't have gotten prohibited and we would have (for example) politicians who can take LSD... (perhaps not but you never know)

But then again, how would the "normal" man get acces to such a fascinating world?

Maybe.... but there is no point in saying how it could have been...

 

[spice]

I am proud to stand here and be able to defend Tim.

He did what every caveman did when seeing fire for the first time;

He picked it up, and burned his hand.

I don't care WHAT Albert Hoffman said, Tim did everyone a service.

I doubt anyone here at these boards would have handled the whole thing as well as he did, taken as a whole.

Huxley had the elitist attitude that LSD should only be given to artists and intellectuals, but let me tell you all something, those people don't make the best warriors for a cause.

He did what was necessary, he followed his heart into the unknown, and to his credit ( which, BTW, can't be said for Hoffman) he actually LISTENED to what the LSD told him, and abandoned the corporate, plasticized sham he had been living in.

It's easy to be an armchair quarterback, sitting in a recliner watching tape of the 'game'.....hindsight is 20/20.

:idea:

 

[VerusDeus]

I think Leary indeed went a little overboard with his LSD-propaganda. While his actual research hasn't really led to all that much.

But still he's a hippie-hero man, and I think he deserves every psychonaut's respect!

Anyone ever seen Leary last trip? (video-documentary about Leary last days alive, and sort of biography) It's a great watch.

Peace.

 

[Mchl]

I don't know too much about what he wrote, really..but I think he was just so trilled about what he came to understand about the trip that he wanted to share it with the rest of the world, 'cose it would safe the whole damn thing. But people just weren't ready for it.

As for Hofmann, i think he was against it, because there wasn't enough research..people could harm themselves taking it without knowledge or guidence. And quite frankly..he was right.

 

[spice]

That's the whole thing, he was PHD in psychology.

From Harvard. He understood that scientific terminology and classification ( what most western 'research' actually consists of) would do no justice to LSD....it had to be 'open-sourced' so that it could work it's magic.

The research lab IS NOT THE FUCKING PLACE FOR LSD RESEARCH.

Damn, if anything should have been learned, it's that.


Ever hear of the Edgewood Arsenal?

Sure you have.

Frank Olsen? Google him and find out what happens when you trust these motherfuckers to be competent and professional.


I am very close in my heart to Tim Leary. I had a dream about him on the day he died, before it was announced.....I dreamt I was with him, hanging out....I have never dreamt of him before or since....

'people could harm themselves taking it without knowledge or guidance'

Look, let's not wrestle with polemics. People harm themselves with fuckin' hamburgers everyday, and I don't see the propaganda squads going after Ronald McDonald.

Danger never was, and never will be, a good enough reason to deprive people of awakening. Period.

 

[????????]

I want to take sides with spice here, I think Leary's contribution is very underrated and what can I say, I've always liked the guy; it's always been very entertaining and educational to read about his anecdotes and life in general

I've always admired him too because he had the BALLS to do a lot of stuff I'm sure others were thinking but were afraid to pursue. I wonder what would've been of the psychedelic movement without him.

I read "my problem child" and I remember Hoffman saying that he disapproved (obviously) of the methods that he used but he always showed respect and high regards for him.

While his actual research hasn't really led to all that much.

I urge you to please reconsider that statement.

 

[st.bot.32]

Huxley had the elitist attitude that LSD should only be given to artists and intellectuals, but let me tell you all something, those people don't make the best warriors for a cause.

Absolutely good point.

Interesting, I wonder if psychedelics would have become "street drugs" if it wasn't for Leary. Instead street drugs would have consisted of what.. cocaine.. speed.. MJ I guess. Not saying that LSD is the next Messiah or anything, and it is always dubious off of the street.. but I'd rather see psychedelics floating around than only addictive substances. Well I guess that is what has happened now in the past 10 years anyway, oh well..

There's probably a reason why the original woodstock was by and large a peaceful event (as much as the NYT tried to "spin" it) compared to the disastrous riot that occured at the "anniversary"... aside from just the empty and commercial music of the 90's event. I totally blame the drugs of the era. Bye visionary mind-awakening, hello feel good about yourself, addictive.. herd-mentality aggression (not in all of course, but will happen in a crowd context).

 

[Dantediv86]

i don't completely like what Tim leary said in his time, tho i respect him as a true scientist and psychonaut and father with many others of the Hippie movement, and many of his ideas were way ahead.
the trait i like best of this man was his total defiance towards the government and authority.

 

[silv]

god damn, these discussions make me realise I have alot of reading to catch up on :smirk:

 

[spice]

Tims ' The politics of ecstacy' is a really good one, silv.

 

[silv]

Tims ' The politics of ecstacy' is a really good one, silv.

After my tests this week I'll be sure to get that book and give it a read!

 

[Guest]

Leary was a Hero PERIOD!

I hear Spice: The best sailors stand ashore
(I now absolutely nothing about American Footbal, but I guess this was the point)

I honour Leary in what he tried to accomplish, no matter how bad you think his ways were.
I think he's still a big reason LSD is still on the surface

 

[spice]

It's good, I feel that he was at the peak of his powers, mentally, when he wrote it, I don't have it anymore, all my Tim Leary books, all the Terence, all the John Lilly, everything from 10 years of collecting this type of literature, disappeared after the thought-police got me.

they probably burned them during a jar-head circle-jerk. :evil:

 

[magickmumu]

In my opinion it was not Leary, but his contemporaries’ Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters who made psychedelics so popular amongst youngsters. Tim leary and the people around him approached psychedelics in a scientific spiritual and psychological manner. They used first the mushroom and later LSD for self research and self knowledge. They made use of ancient holy books (like the tibetan book of the dead) for guidence in the psychedelic realm.


Ken Kesey and his crew, believed that psychedelics were best used as a tool for transforming society as a whole, and that if a sufficient percentage of the population had the psychedelic experience, revolutionary social and political changes would follow. Therefore they made LSD available to anyone.
The Merry Pranksters made LSD rock n roll, and changed the setting for psychedelic voyaging. no longer silent darkness but big rock shows with loud music and flashing lights became the setting in which the psychedelic ritual took place.

 

[st.bot.32]

I wish I could remember the exact source of the quote, but I recall in an interview with Leary him talking about the league of spiritual discovery.. something along the lines of how in thousands of trials they never had really bad experiences.. as everyone was in a proper enviroment, with the proper mindset to fully appreciate the experience. When LSD hit the public they really hadn't expected the kinds of reactions people were having to it, etc.