the Mind/Body and its hardenings

[ararat]

I've come to realize that everything that clouds the mind is equally present in the body. in buddhism they call it "sankaras" or something like that, wilhelm reich called it the body-armor, lots of other people probably found similar things.

it seems as if all emotions, thought forms and attitudes that are not entirely experienced/accepted settle down in the body, energetic and physical. so for example I noticed that whenever I have thoughts that revolve around myself, particularly vain thoughts ( :uncomfortableness: ), I feel some sort of knot in my upper nose. when the thoughts don't revolve around myself but still are of a vain nature, the feeling wanders further up, but it remains. it is as if the knot is a hindrance to a free flow of energy in the body.
when you take a centipede and put something on only one leg, the whole flow of its motion will be arrythmic and the whole motion won't look as fluid. it seems to work similar in humans, when there is one hardening, all will be a bit messed up. if lots is hardened, so will be the persons character (and vice versa). braineater once observed that some people don't seem to be able to breathe, this seems directly correlated.


in vipassana meditation, the theory is that if you go through your body (the deepest level of the mind) with your focused attention, you will definitely feel these hardenings, and through your equanimous contact with them they will dissolve, and with it lots of emotional baggage and also quite a lot of what one took to be part of ones personality.
these hardenings seem to influence the psyche equally, all will be distorted through them. in my experience, the less these hardenings are present, the clearer and more direct your perception of reality will be. I have no idea how far this goes though, but it seems that it is a very powerful meditation, and I think it can be quite scary to practice it for a long time. the ten days were crazy enough.
after the retreat, I also noticed that a lot of rash-kind of things, red spots generally, also totally disappeared. it seems that they are mostly caused by energetic disturbances, rather than bacteria or lack of washing or whatever.

so, some weeks ago I went to find out if it works the other way round, that is not to cleanse the body by going through it with focused attention (as in vipassana), but cleansing the mind by massaging the body. I went to a woman who professes in postural integration, which claims to do just that, help to clear mental problems through the body. it seems to work, albeit not as profoundly, which is no surprise given the difference in the time is used. (vipassana is 10 days, postural integration is 70 minutes per week) however, my stepfather told me that she pressed on one point of his body and he started to cry, not of pain, but more in a cathartic nature.

all of this isn't exactly new, I know, but it seems worth sharing.

opinions, comments, experiences, critique, all welcome

 

[ophiuchus]

very good read. this brings a lot of things to light for me, ill have to do some experimentation with this soon. i wonder if it can help with my diet related issues as well. i will definitely report any findings.

"I have no idea how far this goes though, but it seems that it is a very powerful meditation"

interesting about the massage too. only makes sense that it would work both ways though. i have been keen on self massage when i am sore. i always stretch well after a workout, but when i am cooled down after a workout i try not to do as much stretching, as it's not as good for the muscles, so what i do instead is massage the tension out. i'll have to pay mind to my mindstate in regards to all this. well, looks like i've got some research to do.

 

[Crimzen]

I find that there is a yin yang sort of effect to the body and mind (obvious enough considering) but in regards to the mind affecting the body and vice versa i believe this is very much true
For example when i find time to work out, if i have really pushed my body, afterwards i feel very relaxed and calm and its a perfect time to meditate for me
The other way has been proven too, the mind affecting the body, the whole concept of a placebo is proof enough i think

It really is all about balance
I enjoyed the centipede analogy/comparison brought the image right to mind and was very clear in what you were expressing

 

[drizzit]

I just would like to say to the yin and yang and two sides of ones self. 3 is the magic number there has to be a inbetween. For every action there is an equal opposite and negative reaction, then three more reactions branching off each individual action. I ask to look once more from a different point of view. . But I could be wrong.

 

[ophiuchus]

astrologically, my ruling planet jupiter is ruled by the number 3. i find the associated perspective to be inseperable from my being. i can't help but see both sides. while it can be a hindrance at times (decision making) i do accept it as a wonderful gift.

"if i have really pushed my body, afterwards i feel very relaxed and calm and its a perfect time to meditate for me"

totally feeling this, going to be practicing it very soon, maybe tomorrow if i train.

 

[Crimzen]

@drizzit, no need to ask me to look at anything through different perspectives friend, i already have/do.
and what you really propose is the number 5 not 3, as it starts with 2 and splits into 3
anyway, how can there be 3 things when i was specifically and only talking about how the mind and body affect one another? the mind is one, the body is one
if you want to add soul into the mix there would be 3 but i wasnt talking about that

 

[ophiuchus]

the 2 dont split into 3 though. the soul (observing)talking about 2 opposites is the third perspective. it's 2+1 (2 objects + 1 observer), not 2+3, the moment it(they) was spoken of it was always 3.

the soul talking about 1 perspective is still 2. that is, the object and the observer. with no observer, there is no description of the object. 1 is merely being, though this doesn't necessarily mean solitary. though really we are all dealing with infinity. :lol:

 

[drizzit]

i was thinking the 3rd could be the dimension the information was traveling through though the soul (observer) could be labeled as such. i see it as membranes i suppose. but Ophiuchus's post sounds perfect. and im not trying to insult or doubt anyone i just wanted to contribute to the post.

 

[Crimzen]

nah @oph i meant

". For every action there is an equal opposite and negative reaction, then three more reactions branching off each individual action"
there are 5 'events'

im basically nit picking as i have a tendency to do quite often

@drizzit nah man no insult taken at all, re-reading my post i did sound a bit defensive but i was just letting you know at the time, no intent behind it

 

[drizzit]

I just didn't wanna offend nobody and none takin. Maybe if 1 event = 3 then 3 more events stem off from each individual the over all would = 13 events branching off from one and then further after you make your choice/choices. 1+3+9=13

 

[Remddd]

i found correlation between mind and body as well (just looking at myself and put parallels between emotions and state of mind and physical condition of my body at that moment). So i took assumption that body and mind is one thing not separated in any ways (some theories suggest that ) and the only way to clear up mind is to strengthen the body (healthy mind can not exist in week body ). Side effect that i ended up being vegan and lost over 20kilos in couple of months. keep experimenting

 

[drizzit]

what about a paraplegic?

 

[Crimzen]

stephen hawkings

 

[zezt]

I dont buy Buddhism.
I think that belief system is just yet another Eastern-version of guilt-tripping. let me explain:

OK, with the western religious myth you have this guilt-trip, eg 'you are born in original sin, and into a natural world that is fallen. 'PROBLEM'. So you need us and our church so as to be 'saved'. 'SOLUTION'

In the East, eg Buddhism, it goes: 'all is suffering' so right there is a downer. Why not ALL is suffering and ALL is joy, but suffering is made worse by insane bastards who follow stupid myths? And if we can see through these dumb myth we will still have suffering but more joy.
But now, so they go 'suffering. 'PROBLEM'. meditation. 'SOLUTION' and to do that you belong to their belief system

From reading the OP to me it is stifling. It is being guilty of thinking itself:

vain thoughts ( :uncomfortableness: )

I am only sharing what I feel. If you want to do it its up to you, but I have freedom to question it. The goal of Buddhism is escape from nature with its myriads of complex thinking and feeling. it is obsessed with 'looking within'---'purifying'

You mentioned Reich, and I could dig where he was coming from, and was glad he was open about sex, and even got his book about fascism but went stone cold on him when I learnt he was homophobic

 

[ararat]

what I wonder is, what do you buy then? or let's say it different, what is your idea of reality, of life, what are your aspirations, fears and hopes?

the thread was not intended to be about buddhism, but about a mind/body phenomenon and the hindrance of free energy flow in both the psyche and the body. about the armoring some people (including me) have, and just how wonderful it is to not be armored for once.
I don't think that buddhism's sole aspiration is to enslave people into its guilt trips, which undoubtedly happens for people who are apt to these things.

it seems to me that I am sharing myself by saying that I don't particularly enjoy vain thoughts. they are directed an inflated image, an idea, they cause suffering, I don't like that, I want happiness, truth. I admit there is a share of shame in myself, what am I to do about it? this is the truth about what I take myself to be. since I don't like it I try to do something about it.


where did you learn that reich was homophobic?

 

[ophiuchus]

". For every action there is an equal opposite and negative reaction, then three more reactions branching off each individual action"
there are 5 'events'

ah, see i followed this thought too, that's where i came to the conclusion of infinity. cause if each side keeps branching into more sides, then, well, you've got fractals. :lol:

i took assumption that body and mind is one thing not separated in any ways

i can find some truth in this. i certainly am not as extatic if i've been lazy in my training. though i believe that conditioning can strengthen or lessen the effects of this. interesting to bring up the paralyzed. here is a good example of how a theory seemingly so solid, can be conditioned to be worked around. there is always an exception.

so they go 'suffering. 'PROBLEM'. meditation. 'SOLUTION'

buddhism does not teach that at it's core. there may be people who abuse/use the name of the system for their own gain, but nowhere in the buddhist doctrine does it offer "solutions" to lifes "problems". the yin and yang quite simply sums it up.now i am not saying that i prescribe to buddhism, rather i have experienced it explained very well. alan watts covers this beautifully in his "philosophical discourse" teachings. just throw "alan watts philosophical discourse" in youtube to find various episodes.

 

[drizzit]

I was just thinking to the reactions. No matter what it is there's an opposite one to that. And the sideways 8

 

[ophiuchus]

:lol:

 

[Mrjelly]

I do not think that Christianity says that you have to go to church to be saved, If you read the Bible Jesus says that all you have to do is love God and Love your brother. Its meaning is to love the Father and treat each other with love. Everyone gets caught up with what humans (corruptible) have said it all means. Jesus also said that we will be very surprised to of the people we will meet in heaven.

Not trying to take it to the religious level here (Believing in the words of a prophet are far from organized religion) just wanted to point it out.

I had an issue with the Bible when I was younger, I couldn't wrap my mind around the fact that a good person would go to hell if they did not become Christian. A religious person told me to read the Bible, so I did. I came up with a different impression when I was done. I didn't change my thoughts on religion but I did find spirituality.

As for the meditation... I think it is believable and considering how our body talks to its self I will give this a try. Thanks for this!

 

[BrainEater]

hmm i have experienced this also... from the feeling it was as if i had been dead and somewhat i feel like this now a little bit again.... some theory suggests that emotions are the reaction of the body to the mind. maybe my mind had become simply so polluted with stupid shit from society, because i think especially today with all the artificial shit like adverts where they try to manipulate your consciousness only for more profit, i feel like it can almost be like violence on some level or in some way and when you then also start to perceive that shit as "normal" then it's like you don't know what you are doing to yourself.

another thing was that when i sometimes tried to massage my neck with my hand i got a electrical shock lol... also we are mostly made of water and energy needs to flow, right?? i think it's very important to watch the breath in order to stay in the now and not let take the mind take control.. because it is not always nice when the mind/intellect can turn against you and stuff like that... seriously!! :Oo: and for example hold the breath to release (or build?) tension etc etc... i guess when the body is very agitated the mind can get into that state more likely as well... mind you i don't want to do fear mongering or shit like that... just telling of my own experience and i suggest to simply be aware and i can give another advice or suggestion to you: maybe sometimes just try to feel and "be there" instead of thinking that you have to think or something like that. i know it sounds a bit stupid, but maybe think or ponder a bit about it... a friend of mine said "there is no truth, only experience". so you have your experiences and can tell what is right for you etc etc... and of course, just do what feels right to you, alright??

well and that was exactly how i felt. it was like i hadn't been feeling for a relatively long time what i really had been doing to myself. for example on a mushroom trip that i had i found myself crying because of the insane pain that i had done to myself, but i hadn't been aware of it. it was a bit like i had been a zombie or so...
that can really be a nightmare i tell you and i don't want to be like that ever again, altho i said i feel like i maybe have become a bit like that again... if you ask me, it can be like "loose change" or so if you have heard of that concept or whatever you want to call it. so observe your mind if you can, because in my case it really felt like my mind had killed me... as if "i" wasn't my mind.. how insane is that lol... really... it is of benefit to be aware and to know what you are doing to yourself and others etc etc... :roll::retard::finger:
just try to avoid something like for example making yourself crazy too much with thinking all the time "i have to be aware of everything" and instead just try to be aware naturally and how it feels right to you...
as far as i can see it can help a lot to be aware of the breathing.

i think the thing is at least partly that in some situations or so you may think there is no alternative for that thought or feeling or action or whatever basically... well i have felt like that sometimes, but i figured out, altho i haven't yet completely overcome it, that it is almost always a case of tunnelvision syndrome/mode which is basically mostly related to fear. well of course it can also be concentration, but i just think when it's also related to a lack of relaxation then it's most likely because of fear and supposedly in nowadays societies almost everybody lives in a relatively maybe varying constant state of fear...

hmmm if you ask me, the direction that buddhism is pointing at is a very noble one. well of course maybe every religion has its own way to god, but i still find buddhism very special, because one of the basic ideas that is pointed towards is to look and go within to find truth. and basically to watch yourself... well as someone said before, the separation of mind and body is possibly an illusion in its own way.
well if life is a dream then maybe we can wake up from it, or rather from the illusions that we have created for ourselves because of that or something like that...
and i don't really think that death is the only way to wake up from the illusions.. maybe it's more like the natural enforcement or something like that for the lack of a better description, but yeah it's surely only speculation... well and then of course the concept/idea of ego-death, right??


@zezt maybe it's no coincidence that you feel like you do towards buddhism as well because you live in the west and the west has been dominated by christianity for a long time and maybe the approaches to or expressions of buddhism in the west aren't as original, deep or natural as in the east. and maybe also it's no wonder that many people are so unrelaxed in the west, because a great part of society has rather rigid minds in some sense in my impression and i suppose this could well be related to what i said in the sentence before... i don't want to reduce it or anything, yet i would say a great aspect of buddhism seems to be relaxation in order to make it more likely to for example people being nice to each other... and i am sure discipline is still a very different thing than what this topic is basically about...
well and because christianity basically at least to some extent seemed to have become like some sort of guilt tripping... i think however advanced "the western world" may appear to have become etc etc.. it appears that the material wealth is somewhat contrasted by spiritual poverty... how people are seen a lot as machines in some sense or just disregarded although every single person and being may have its own importance and purpose. there are still a lot retarded programs in that aspect and well i have had traveled thru some countries in asia for some months and i can really say that my general impression was that the general and natural openness and kindness seems to be a great difference, however sadly the west has seemingly already had its influence with its coldness between people.
:tear: :-|:\\




peace