The Manson family and their use of psychedelics

[ArthBH]

The hippie age was undeniably shaped by the use of LSD. Without it, the hippie age would either not have happened, or it would have been something quite different. And yet, isn't odd, that the Manson family reportedly used it hundreds and hundreds of times, and were one of the most violent groups in history? This is something that totally confuses me. The hippie era was about peace and love, not murder and disruption. On my first and only (yet) acid experience, I really thought it was beautiful, and I cannot think of anything worse than the thought of harming anyone or anything whilst on it, to the point that I felt bad for scaring a flock of seagulls, and slightly disgusted and sorrowful about eating a burger. Granted I wasn't on as much as they were on, but I should imagine that more would only increase my sensitivity. It really confuses me that these fucking horrible people could take LSD. Some people even say that LSD contributed to their evil and insanity... and that just makes my head spin.

So please inform me (before continuing with this post) on your opinions on the subject, because I would love to hear your P.O.V.

My opinion on it, or at least my inkling, is that they used LSD in a different way to how its supposed to be used. And what leads me to believe this is the fact that they took datura as well. Now, I don't think I have ever heard anyone saying they've enjoyed the delirium of taking datura seeds. I've a read rare couple of people who found it interesting and bearable, but never good or happy. With the amount that the Mansons were taking, I'd expect that most of the time they had bad experiences. And lets not forget that these people were really fucked up, so I reckon that their LSD experiences won't have been too good either. Could it be that these people were getting their kicks from the darkness of their experiences, in the same way they got their kicks from murdering people? I have only had one bad trip, on LSA, and although it was horrific, there was a part of me that was fascinated by it, by the chaos and destruction of it. This is just my two cents, but I reckon these guys were using LSD and datura to experience the macabre, the terrible. I don't think that it will have effected them, I reckon these guys were already mad and evil, and I don't think that any substance can change that in someone, I just think it was another part of their madness.

What do you think?

 

[Sticki]

It has more to do with Manson himself I think, He held the cards and just found weak individuals that he could brainwash easily and then install them with the Helter Skelter theory. The most famous killing was that of Roman Polanski's wife, The reason behind this is truelly unclear to me but I think there was a link to Polanski's earlier film, Rosemarys baby.

I believe Manson genuinely thought that the blacks were rising up against the whites too and who is to say they are not?
Who honestly thought they would see a black president of the USA in thier life time?

I think Manson had unlocked his mind and cast off fear and this is what makes him so dangerous to the greater public in the eyes of America and proabaly most nations. Whether its thru his liberation or control of others or his disregard for forced authority, By far one of the most strangest, intriguing beings.

 

[itsscience]

In the book "Mindscapes: An Anthology of Drug Writings" by Antonio Melechi, Harry Asher writes of his experience in volunteering as a test subject for the drug LSD.

In a laboratory he was given thirty millionths of a gram of LSD, and he recounts the tale of his trip (which lasted about 2 weeks!). On the day he was given the acid, he was taken home about 8 hours later and he describes how he had a compulsive urge to do violence to his children, so much so that even in his altered state he had the wisdom to request his wife to keep the children away from him.

This guy was not a psychotic maniac like Manson, he was a mild mannered family man. I don't presume to know why Manson did what he did but perhaps it was because LSD can produce compulsive urges (both positive or negative) and Manson had sunk so low that he no longer had the same restraints as more moderate people do.

 

[Sticki]

From what you say about Harry Asher it clearly sounds like he had either an underlying mental health issue or maybe the experience had brought on some kind of post traumatic stress syndrome? Which I think would be a common reaction to experiencing something you really couldn't comprehend and then returning to an established life for a relatively mild mannerd family man.

I believe LSD is a tool and in the correct hands is possibly the ultimate tool for mind expansion and the exploration of consciousness, But in the wrong hands its a path way to your mind and if that some one is cunning enough they will walk straight by your normal senses of self preservation and influence how you think and feel directly.

Also, Compulsive. The word compulsive comes from the word compulsion which in psychology means a strong, usually irresistible impulse to perform an act, esp. one that is irrational or contrary to one's will. I dont think Manson was a compulsive person, Definately Impulsive and very concise but I dont think he did things with out first thinking them through to some degree.

 

[vision quest]

I know this is an old post but the reason being these youths were lead to commit those murders due to powerful mind manipulation which involved persuasion from Manson himself whilst they were under the influence of lsd, as you probably know lsd can dissolve your ego which is your sense of self being, it opens your mind and allows your thoughts to wonder, and this is how Manson managed to gain control of these girls, by getting rid of there ego and altering there minds whilst there minds were in the altered state.
And they weren't actually under the influence of lsd when committing the murders, Manson just woke them up one night and told them to go with another male member of there "family".

 

[Finarfin]

What vision quest writes is not the whole story i think. Most people think (because the media has told them) that manson manipulated these girls to murder people.
People forget that it was this guy Tex Watson who started the killing.
And when you read the book Manson in his own words you will read about Tex Watson cooking up some datura root (if i remember correctly) and he suposed to never been the same again it reads. Watson also was heavy into speed and other drugs.

Personally i think there is a lot of smoke and mirrors surrounding the manson murders.

 

[AlbertZun]

this thread forced me to read the Manson article but I couldn't find any two similar articles on him. all of them have some other "behind the story" thing

 

[Finarfin]

Over the years many articles and books have been writen. Documentary,s and movies have been made. Manson became a pop culture icon his face has been printed on t shirts and posters and everybody knew his face as the face of madness and evil.

Some say manson is a murderer, but did he murderd anyone himself? Some say he is a cult leader. But was the manson family a cult and was manson there cult leader?
I think it,s strange that everybody knows about manson, but very little people know about the guy who actualy commited the murders. While manson was already in jail Tex Watson (the actual killer and criminal and drug dealer) was still roaming around free.
I think it,s because manson was a lot older that he has been labeled the cult leader and mastermind behind the murders.
Manson as far as i know never murderd anyone. Manson is accused of being the mastermind behind the murders brainwashing people to become killers. I doubt if this is completly true. I think it was very easy to call manson the leader and blame him for the murders.

I do not think manson is innocent. He has his share in the murders by telling these girls to go murder these people. However i think the media has made his role bigger then it might have been.

 

[Demahdi]

Cultural engineers.
It isn't difficult to crack a western pothead's mind and to lead it to destruction.

 

[vision quest]

Well finarfin, obviously you can't put all the blame on LSD as the girls did, but it was played a major roll in the process no doubt about that.
In the documentary's I watched they said for each day Manson would make them dress differently and act out a different roll like one they were gypsies, the next they were cowboys and so on, he also re enacted the crucifixion of Jesus while they were under the influence of LSD and kept repeating things like "I would die for you", after a while the questions started coming, "would you die for me ?" Manson clearly new what he was doing, he brought them in altered there state of mind and sent them back out while there brains were in a vulnerable state, they just went along with the murders

 

[Finarfin]

I don,t know if manson knew what he was doing at the time. They say he was a cult leader and was mind controling people.
I doubt manson had a master plan to mind control these girls to murder people.
Ofcourse the guy (tex watson) who did most of the killing and the girls who did the killing will say he is a cult leader and was manipulating them. They blamed the so called cult leader for the murders they did.

On the other hand manson might have been the cult leader they say he was.
Manson was a pimp and as a pimp you need to know how to manipulate girls. Manson has been into scientology and scientology is a mind control cult. And manson was a lot older the the other people in the family and because of this age difference people look at him as the leader.
I am sure manson did manipulate these girls. And i think he has his responsibilty in these killings (he is not innocent). I am not sure about these killings being a master plan.

The manson family is well know for taking LSD and killing, but they are not alond. In Japan there was the aum shirinkyo sekt. These folks did also took LSD and are known for the attack in 1995 with the toxic sarin gas in the subway of Tokyo.

the CIA and the army also experimented with LSD for the purpose of mind control. The army wanted to make a weapon out of LSD.