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Swine Flu.. lets talk

  • Auteur de la discussion Auteur de la discussion Remedy
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Remedy

Neurotransmetteur
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21/4/09
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Personally, I think this is entirely blown out of proportion.

there are 141 confirmed cases in the US as of yesterday. there are also about 302 million people in the US according the google and if you use their exact population stated, that pulls in your odds of running into one of these individuals (should they not be kept in strict quarantine) at 2,156,451 to 1.

Odds of catching it otherwise are probably even more slim unless you plan on visiting mexico.

Now...other than the obvious benefits of media conglomerates and pharmaceutical companies and probable increase in funding for the CDC..


WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL
 
haha one of my teachers went on a rant about swine floo.
he was like... first the flu was suppose to kill me, then sars, then aids, now swine flu etc etc.. i dont think there is much risk
 
most of us don't have to worry. it's the elderly, it's infants, people with weakened immune systems.

i found the whole process very interesting to watch, and puzzling at the same time. they acted as if they wanted to stop the spread of the disease but did absolutely nothing until it was already far too late. perhaps it's a good test run for what happens if the BIG one comes someday==we fail.
 
If the controllers fear the shut down of the majority of their energy cells, it's all of a sudden possible to arrange a global change for cure.
 
Yeah I found it funny how they said it was alarming but didn't even recommend people not to go to mexico, sometimes letting people come back from there with no question :S
 
Personally, I think this is entirely blown out of proportion.

If people would take the time to look a some numbers they would realize most fear related to swine flu, is pulled right out of someones ass.

Here's a number to think about:

"In the US alone each year 35.000 people die from normal flu related issues. "
 
Personally I think this is another attempt at wiping out numbers of the population for easier control in the not too distant future and I have heard that the strain of influenza H1N1 cannot start in pigs.

I have also heard on the news it is a mutation of 4 varietys of influenza from across different animals, Im not being funny but I seriously doubt that the H1N1 virus is naturally occurring.

Plus the idea that its the old, young and weak that are the only vulnerable ones is abit naive. Everyone is at least at slight risk as the influenza virus mutates as it travels and resides in person to person, so I hear.

P.S. I wonder how many billions of dollars the pharmacutical industry will be making out of all these countrys stocking up on a influenza combatant that barely works?? :lol:
 
I think its been blown out of proportion. Someone in a university near where I live supposedly caught swine 'flu and everyone shat themselves: "Oh no, I sneezed, I must have swine 'flu" or "My nose is running, I'm going to die soon"

I just hope that the WHO doesnt bump it up to a level 6, cos then Glastonbury fest would probably get cancelled and I'd be fucking pissed off.
 
Personally I think this is another attempt at wiping out numbers of the population for easier control in the not too distant future and I have heard that the strain of influenza H5N1 cannot start in pigs.

How do you justify 'wiping out number' if you look at the current death toll related to swine flu and compare them to the number of Americans alone that die every year of normal flu (35.000).
 
Remedy a dit:
that pulls in your odds of running into one of these individuals (should they not be kept in strict quarantine) at 2,156,451 to 1.

Provided you only run into 1 person.
 
Sticki a dit:
Personally I think this is another attempt at wiping out numbers of the population for easier control in the not too distant future and I have heard that the strain of influenza H5N1 cannot start in pigs.

It isn't H5N1, it is H1N1.
 
From WHO:

Mexico has reported 506 confirmed h...velop any symptoms of influenza-like illness.
In the beginning there were talks about 50 death or so - NONSENSE. 20 deaths. This is absolutely nothing. There are more people dying in Afganistan daily. It is mostly the media that is hyping it. Fullstop.
 
i have a family member who is a nurse and of course is having a small panic attack because we are on level 5 and and the news doesnt hype anything up or lie :wink:

but she did mention back in the 70's this happened and most of the time it wasnt the virus killing people they were worried about, but the vaccine causing a rare paralysis... however, when you try to vaccinate a whole population, thats a lot of paralyzed people. found an article from washington post (posted on UCLA's website) to back it.






A Shot in the Dark: Swine Flu's Vaccine Lessons

By David Brown, Washington Post Staff Writer

Twenty-six years ago, the United States government got word that a deadly virus nobody had seen for years -- and which experts thought was gone forever -- was possibly circulating again.

There wasn't any proof it was back, just a few worrisome hints. However, the microbe had killed millions of people earlier in the century, so even a small amount of evidence had to be taken seriously. So, at great effort and expense, the government launched a plan to vaccinate the American population against the virus.

It seemed like a good idea at the time. But it turned into one of the biggest public health debacles in memory.

The disease was swine flu, whose appearance in 1976 was believed to be a reincarnation of the infection that killed tens of millions of people in 1918 and 1919. Today, the U.S. government is engaged in similar deliberations about smallpox, a disease officially eradicated in 1980 but whose virus some experts believe may be possessed by terrorists.

Over the next month, a panel of scientific experts convened by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will debate the value -- and hazards -- of making the smallpox vaccine available in the United States for the first time in 30 years. Universal vaccination is out of the question, but widespread distribution is possible. By the end of June, the experts will recommend a course of action to the Bush administration.

Influenza and smallpox -- and their vaccines -- differ in innumerable ways, making comparisons tricky. Influenza occurs naturally and spreads quickly. Smallpox hasn't existed outside of laboratory freezers since 1978, but might be in terrorist arsenals. The flu vaccine has few serious side effects, while the smallpox vaccine has many.

Nevertheless, the swine flu campaign is the one recent example of a large, government-sponsored emergency immunization program, and as such may offer lessons for today.

Events began with the death, on Feb. 4, 1976, of an Army recruit at Fort Dix, N.J., during an outbreak of respiratory infections following the holidays. Throat washings were taken from 19 ill soldiers, and a majority tested positive for that winter's dominant strain of the influenza virus, which was called A/Victoria. But four samples were different, and New Jersey public health officials sent them to the CDC to be identified.

On Feb. 12, the CDC delivered a chilling report. The four samples -- which included one from the dead soldier -- were swine flu. As the name suggests, swine flu was endemic to pigs. However, the devastating pandemic of the Spanish flu in 1918 and 1919 is believed to have been caused by a strain of swine flu that, through mutation, gained the ability to infect people.

In 1927, a scholar put the Spanish flu's global mortality at 21.5 million. In 1991, a systematic recalculation raised it to 30 million. The latest estimate, published in the current Bulletin of the History of Medicine, sets the minimum mortality at 50 million, with an upper limit of 100 million.

The possibility that the Spanish flu had reemerged was a matter whose importance is hard to overstate -- and wasn't missed by anyone in 1976. Within days of identifying the strain, federal health officials were meeting at the CDC to discuss what to do.

According to various accounts, the idea that a swine flu epidemic was quite unlikely never received a full airing or a fair hearing, although numerous experts apparently held that view. Instead, the notion that an epidemic was likely enough to warrant population-wide vaccination grew from dominant opinion to unquestioned gospel.

At the same time, the rhetoric of risk suffered steady inflation as the topic moved from the mouths of scientists to the mouths of government officials. In a memo prepared for his superiors at the Department of Health, Education and Welfare (HEW), David Sencer, head of the CDC, talked about the "strong possibility" of a swine flu epidemic. Later, HEW's general counsel commented that "the chances seem to be 1 in 2." A memo from the HEW secretary to the head of the Office of Management and Budget noted that "the projections are that this virus will kill one million Americans in 1976."

A few experts suggested the vaccine be made and stockpiled but used only if there was more evidence of an epidemic. This was considered but rejected early on. The argument was that the influenza vaccine had few, if any, serious side effects, and that it would be far easier (and more defensible) to get it into people's bodies before people started dying.

On March 24, President Gerald Ford announced on television that he was asking Congress for $135 million "to inoculate every man, woman and child in the United States" against swine flu.

Over the next nine months, very little went right -- or as planned.

Pharmaceutical companies undertook crash programs to make enough of the vaccine by the start of flu season in October. But it turned out the Fort Dix bug grew poorly in chicken eggs, the growth medium for the influenza virus. This meant that yields were going to be about half of what was planned. In addition, one company used the wrong virus and had to start over.

The insurance industry announced it wouldn't insure manufacturers against liability arising from the vaccine. An act of Congress shifted most of the liability to the government.

Studies of Fort Dix's soldiers showed that about 500 had been infected with swine flu. But with only one death, this called into question the deadliness of the strain. In addition, swine flu didn't appear that summer in the Southern Hemisphere, as would be expected if a pandemic were starting.

Tests showed that single injections of some vaccine formulations didn't protect children. This required time-consuming studies of a two-shot regimen.

Albert Sabin, the father of the oral polio vaccine and a high-profile advocate, broke with the party line and called for stockpiling, but not immediate use, of the vaccine.

Three elderly people in Pittsburgh died on the same day within hours of getting swine flu shots. It was a chance event, but just the sort of guilt by association that arises whenever a public health intervention is done on a mass scale.

What killed the program, though, was the observation in early December that people given the swine flu vaccine had an increased risk of developing Guillain-Barre syndrome, a rare, usually reversible but occasionally fatal form of paralysis. Research showed that while the actual risk for Guillain-Barre was only about 1 in 1,000 among people who had received the vaccine, that was about seven times higher than for people who didn't get the shot.


On Dec. 16, the swine flu vaccine campaign was halted. About 45 million people had been immunized. The federal government eventually paid out $90 million in damages to people who developed Guillain-Barre. The total bill for the program was more than $400 million.

There are a lot of lessons to draw, said Harvey Fineberg, a former dean of Harvard's School of Public Health, who co-authored an analysis of the "swine flu affair" for Joseph A. Califano, HEW secretary under President Jimmy Carter, who succeeded Ford in January 1977.

Among them: Don't over-promise; think carefully about what needs to be decided when; don't expect the consensus of experts to hold in the face of changing events. The biggest, he said recently, was perhaps the most obvious: Expect the unexpected at all times.
 
"In the beginning there were talks about 50 death or so - NONSENSE. 20 deaths. This is absolutely nothing. There are more people dying in Afganistan daily. It is mostly the media that is hyping it. Fullstop."

Thats a nice comparison....
 
Sticki a dit:
I have also heard on the news it is a mutation of 4 varietys of influenza from across different animals, Im not being funny but I seriously doubt that the *H1N1 virus is naturally occurring.

yeah when they tested it they found it was composed of 2 strains of pigs, another one from birds and one from us. i don't know enough biology to say if this is that odd, it sounds weird but i really don't know if it happens like this in the flu scenario. one the other hand it wouldn't be implausible that it broke out of some underground lab in mexico..
 
completely off-topic, lol

a couple of years ago scientists visited Alaska to exhume some of the victims of the 1918-19 Spanish flu and gather samples of live virus. the bodies had been buried in permafrost. samples of live virus were then distributed to laboratories around the world so vaccines could be developed.

"One theory is that the virus strain originated at Fort Riley, Kansas, by two genetic mechanisms – genetic drift and antigenic shift – in viruses in poultry and swine which the fort bred for local consumption, but evidence from a recent reconstruction of the virus suggests that it jumped directly from birds to humans, without traveling through swine. The soldiers were then sent from Fort Riley to different places around the world, where they spread the disease.

An effort to recreate the 1918 flu strain (a subtype of avian strain H1N1) was a collaboration among the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory and Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York; the effort resulted in the announcement (on October 5, 2005) that the group had successfully determined the virus's genetic sequence, using historic tissue samples recovered from a female flu victim buried in the Alaskan permafrost and samples preserved from American soldiers.

On January 18, 2007, Kobasa et al. reported that monkeys (Macaca fascicularis) infected with the recreated strain exhibited classic symptoms of the 1918 pandemic and died from a cytokine storm – an overreaction of the immune system. This may explain why the 1918 flu had its surprising effect on younger, healthier people, as a person with a stronger immune system would potentially have a stronger overreaction.

On September 16, 2008, the body of Yorkshire landowner Sir Mark Sykes was exhumed to study the RNA of the Spanish flu virus in efforts to understand the genetic structure of modern H5N1 bird flu. Sykes had been buried in 1919 in a lead coffin which scientists hope will have helped preserve the virus.

In December, 2008 research by Yoshihiro Kawaoka of University of Wisconsin linked the presence of three specific genes (termed PA, PB1, and PB2) and a nucleoprotein derived from 1918 flu samples to the ability of the flu virus to invade the lungs and cause pneumonia. The combination triggered similar symptoms in animal testing."

source: http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Spanish_flu
 
i wouldnt be suprised if the governments are actually more interested in studying the spread and speed of the flu, and relating the results to hypothetical biological attacks by terrorists.
of course they will use it as a study model, but the question does remain why dont they release the vaccines sooner?
is it down to vast amounts of government money in pharmaceuticals?
i like conspiracy theories :lol:
 
HeartCore a dit:
Personally I think this is another attempt at wiping out numbers of the population for easier control in the not too distant future and I have heard that the strain of influenza H1N1 cannot start in pigs.

How do you justify 'wiping out number' if you look at the current death toll related to swine flu and compare them to the number of Americans alone that die every year of normal flu (35.000).

I cannot justify what makes me feel like this but Im sure this situation is man made. By introducing a new mutant strain it attacks those who have weaker immune systems and those who have strong immune systems get stronger. Its a process of selection as I see it.

Even if 35,000 people a year die of inlfuenza normally, Imagine if 2,000,000 people died before christmas and the population went into panic becuase of this strain which is constantly mutating?
 
I saw over the internet someone who reported on their experience of what might be swine flue hasn't confirmed yet she compared it to any other flu and was is over the worst .... just took a look at her blog she's dead (naaaa im kidding) about the dead part.

What ever happened to MRSA the deadly bowel virus thats still running rampant in our so called hospitals oh wait yeah we've got something new to fear.

Seriously what with the Russians the Koreans kids with guns terrorist attack I swear our government is trying to keep the population in a perpetual state of fear.

Has anyone mentioned yet that swine flue has a two percent death rate.
 
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