Studying psychadelics?

[metalhead2273]

Hi. I just read Breaking Open the Head: A Psychedelic Journey into the Heart of Contemporary Shamanism by Daniel Pinchbeck and just watched Inside LSD. I am a senior in high school (yes 18 yo), looking at colleges. I don't really know what I want to do though, I'm interested in engineering, physics, philosophy, languages, psychology.

My question is, are there any career options related to ethnobotany or something like it?
I've never taken psychedelics but plan on it and don't that much about them yet. I assume there are very few research opportunities but I know there are some. What options do I have, how difficult is it to get into a career like this, would I have to get a PharmD, do researchers make any money? Where can I find info on this?

Also, where do you suggest I go from here? I just got Food of the Gods, is this a good next step? I'm interested in how psychedelics interact with the brain, history of psychedelics, shamanism, etc.

Thanks

 

[ararat]

it probably will seem quite hard to get into that direction in an academic setting. you could study botany/biology and then specialize in ethnobotany, or you could study cultural anthropology and get into shamanism, or you could study pharmacology, or psychology, neurochemistry etc.
you will probably have to study for a long time (i.e. at least get a bachelor) before you can get into the whole psychedelic thing, but nothing seems impossible. it begs the question how rewarding that whole thing will feel.
you are still quite young, read stuff, think whether or not you want to really get into this stuff. if it is your dream to do so, follow that dream, don't let other peoples pessimistic opinions keep you from doing what you really want to do, but also be aware that you might be expecting too much of it.

what I tell everybody who starts going to university is that one should go to all kinds of studies for at least a semester before you decide on anything, except you are really sure of what you want to do. I kinda regretted not doing that.

 

[Larry_Golade]

do researchers make any money?

I guess in the US successful researchers do (in France where I live...Oh well I don't even wanna talk about it). But unless you're Tim Leary, don't plan on making much money through the study of psychedelics.

(or you can try to study chemistry and then produce LSD haha :arrow: )

 

[spice]

Before you read 'Food of the Gods' read 'The Invisible Landscape' by Terence McKenna. Food of the Gods is a great read, but to know who Terence really is you should read his first book.

You didnt say where you live, but I live in the United States, where you will probably have a very hard time realizing such a dream, you would have to have at least 8 years of college and be willing to kiss a lot of ass to even get to a position where you MIGHT do some of teh things you mentioned as interesting. Also, you would find that prospective employers here insist that your legal background be SPOTLESS and that you would give written consent upon employment allowing them to examine your urine at their pleasure.

I would say you were given a good piece of advice by banana, go a while to school and just do a bit of everything, you may (maybe not) be romanticizing certain subjects....there is a lot of hard work involved to even get to the point where the system feels you are 'safe' (BRAINWASHED) enough to actually teach real knowledge to, andby that I MEAN knowledge that EMPOWERS you to do things. Case in point- when I was in college in the early 90's you had to have 6 semesters of inorganic chemistry before you could have your first go at Organic Chem.....6 semesters of inorganic. By the time I got to take Organic classes I was at the HIve and was outyielding my professors on experiments in front of the whole class, needless to say this was STUPID, and it cost me bigtime down the road in terms of leniency or favors from these professors, whose damaged egos made them vindictive, and they shredded me on any mistake I made. I was late for a mid-term once by less than 5 minutes and got a zero, even though I was ahead of everyone in the class.

Lesson.


If you are in America, I would not allow whether there is good money in the field to be criteria for entering that field.

If you want money, thats easy, abandon all your principles and go to work for The Man, in any of his numerous institutions, but abandon your honor and sense of self when you do it.


My advice to you is that when you do psychedelics you should re-examine you goals

 

[metalhead2273]

Thanks for the responses.

Yes, I'm in the US, in NY.

I know I would have to take psychedelics and read more before committing to something like this, but I just wanted to see if it was a possibility.

If I decided I did want to try to get a research position in this, what would I get my Bachelor in - bio, chem, neuroscience? Or can I do chemical engineering, because that is good for other jobs too.

 

[metalhead2273]

Also, Pinchbeck talked about a magazine called "Shaman's Drum" that promotes tours to stay with Mestizo shamans. Where can I find info about stuff like this, opinions, reviews, etc? Because, I am going to take a gap year before college and go to Latin America to try to become fluent in Spanish and travel through various countries. Is one of these Shamanic trips a ridiculous idea?

I'm not really sure but I think I want to use psychadelics as a tool to help my problems: depression (nihilistic), lack of creativity (am a musician but feel very uncreative), don't know what to do with my life (trying to find a direction), and whatever else they offer.

 

[spice]

follow your heart

 

[ararat]

If I decided I did want to try to get a research position in this, what would I get my Bachelor in - bio, chem, neuroscience? Or can I do chemical engineering, because that is good for other jobs too.

you can approach this thing from many directions. which direction you take is up to you and your inclinations, personally I'd prefer the botany side, because I love plants. you could just as well take an anthropological approach, brain physiology etc.. you can just as well study sociology and examine subcultures that use psychedelics and the effect that it has, or you can study social-anthropology and study native cultures with well established use of psychedelics. edit: don't forget psychology
it is up to you what you prefer. I like botany/ecology because it doesn't seem as hardcore as neuroscience for example. I like to walk around outside and see what grows there, and I don't like sitting on my ass in a lab cutting apart brains or worse sit in an office. if you like to talk to people of different cultures, go figure, if you like to get into the nitty gritty details of brain physiology, go that way. spice said it well: follow your heart.

>>Is one of these Shamanic trips a ridiculous idea?

who decides what "is" ridiculous? if you see sense in it, do it. certainly, going to travel between school and university seems to me one of the best decisions one could make one that I feel very happy that I made, changed my life quite profoundly.

 

[Larry_Golade]

Is one of these Shamanic trips a ridiculous idea?

Just make sure you have some experience with psychedelics before you go on one of these trips. I've been involved with them for about two years, I read my share of literature related to them, took a fairly decent number of them, and I still consider myself a 'noob', or at least not experienced and mature enough to go on a trip to the Amazon (plus I can't afford it :lol: ).

I'm not really sure but I think I want to use psychadelics as a tool to help my problems: depression (nihilistic), lack of creativity (am a musician but feel very uncreative), don't know what to do with my life (trying to find a direction), and whatever else they offer.

Well...I guess most people here will agree that psychedelics can be useful tools, but don't view them as the solution to the problems you might face. They can show you a way, good or bad, not the way. It may sound like new age bullshit, but really, the solution, the path, the anwser, whatever you wanna call it, is within yourself. You'll understand after a good, well prepared psychedelic trip, and if you have more specific questions concerning the trip in itself, here's a good place to ask them.

And when in doubt, ask Terence rayer: .

 

[metalhead2273]

Can someone post some links for info about some trips?

How expensive are they, how long, how safe, reasons to do or not to one, etc?

If I'm spending a year in South America do you guys think it'd be a good idea to do one of these psychedelic tours at some point during it?

Banana: Even though I would love to take some anthropology courses in college I don't see myself majoring in it (mainly because my parents wouldn't let me because it's kinda useless). I am looking at more science stuff like engineering. Would studying chemical engineering open any paths into something related to psychedelics (like making lsd )?

 

[MichaelVipperman]

Fuck drug tourism. Seriously.

I'm an academic who researches psychedelics. I hardly ever get any money for it, though... but there's a resurgence going on right now, so by the time you've done your undergrad, they'll probably be a lot more receptive to you focusing on it in your masters.

For the record, my field is sociology, and I've been doing drug-related research since 2nd year of my bachelor, but that's because qualitative sociology is exceptionally open ended and with the right professor you can get away with anything as long as you're insightful and do good research. And there aren't really "career options" in it... psychedelics are not something a lot of sociologists are looking at. There's been work on the subject (my friend Ron Sandquist did his masters thesis demonstrating that psychedelic use does not lead to criminality, for example), but you pretty much have to carve out your own niche.

Here's the deal with research:
First you learn methods and theory, studying different ways to look at and approach different subjects. Then you apply what you've learned and try to nuance the frameworks a bit, altering pieces here and there to make improvements. If you're highly creative, you pick as subject matter things nobody else has talked about, or else talk about them in ways nobody has ever talked about -- succeed at that while remaining credible and you'll be respected. Be interdisciplinary. Learn both quantitative and qualitative research protocols, learn at least a basic level of chemistry, pharmacology, biology, psychology, sociology and anthropology. Seriously, this is important: regardless of what your program requirements are, regardless of what your parents say, learn some of all of the above. Then pick which if any seem to you to be the most useful, and delve much further into whichever areas inspire you. Go from there.

Listen to the Muse; ignore your department. If you obey the Muse, somebody will find what you're doing interesting, and you can be in their department instead.

If you want an example of qualitative research on psychedelics that can be done at an undergrad level, check out my honours thesis (I think it's spiffy; it's on contemporary alchemical practice):
http://michaelvipperman.files.wordpress ... lchemy.pdf

(oh, and general advice about university: intro courses are bullshit. Avoid them like the plague if you can)

 

[IJesusChrist]

It ain't hard if you're really openm about it.

I Wanted to do it, and I would have, but I get too nervous speaking about them to public, especially those people I don't know.

But, if you want to, and are openly able to admit that you endorse them, and can explain why in clarity (academically is necessary - not just "they make you smart" or something) then this is for you and I encourage you to pursue it.

You would get a degree in psychology and perhaps a minor in biochemistry.

You would absolutely need a PhD to pursue research. A secondary study of neurology would help you very much.

It wouldn't be very hard to find a school and to conduct research - it would be hard to fund it. So realize that. However, with every year, it is gettinig more and more possible here and in europe.

So, avenge my death in the academic field of psychedelics and make me proud!

The first 2 years of psychology are veyr boring, I'll tell you that. They pick up later.

 

[MichaelVipperman]

Almost. Be totally open, but good researchers don't "endorse" their subject matter. Do that and you'll lose credibility.

Good researchers pick interesting questions within the areas that they find compelling and attempt to tease them apart so that interesting results emerge out of careful observations so that they can say credible things on the subject, and not just regurgitate the opinions they had prior to doing the research.

I for example did not come into my research with conclusions in mind... I performed the research and put my data first. In the case of psychedelics it's not surprising that people, when learning the truth of the matter, will become more interested in using them (because they're beneficial for most people if used wisely). But precisely because people are so likely to miss the "if used wisely" part and just be inspired to get fucked up, you need to exercise extreme caution and be very explicit in not "endorsing."

In my case that manifests in the occasional article like this:
http://michaelvipperman.wordpress.com/2 ... s-are-bad/

 

[spice]

Almost. Be totally open, but good researchers don't "endorse" their subject matter. Do that and you'll lose credibility.

You mean like Terence did?

or Tim Leary?

Or Alexander Shulgin?

Let's make a delineation here, he is referring to 'academic credibility', aka credibility within the confines of the academic world

When I said 'follow your heart', I meant follow it WHEREVER IT TAKES YOU with determination that you are doing the right thing.


All three of those guys I just named did that, and they actually lost credibility AMONG the conformist academic community, but gained massive credibility in the eyes of the common man, and the fringes of academia.


This is someting that is a deeply personal decision, whether to completely conform or not.


You don't NEED psychedelics to know your true heart, but you may find that it's a hell of a fast track.


Anything else I say to you about this will be repetitive, pm me if you like I will answer any questions best I can.


Good Luck, and I will leave you with a reading list if you are interested;

1) The Invisible Landscape
2)PIHKAL by Alex and Ann Shulgin
3) Storming Heaven (Jay Stevens)
4) The Politics of Ecstasy by Tim Leary
5) Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge by Carlos Casteneda

 

[ararat]

Even though I would love to take some anthropology courses in college I don't see myself majoring in it (mainly because my parents wouldn't let me because it's kinda useless). I am looking at more science stuff like engineering. Would studying chemical engineering open any paths into something related to psychedelics (like making lsd )?

of course you could make lsd with your chemical engineering degree, but be aware that if they catch you the degree will be gone.

I think our advice here boils down to doing whatever interests you. don't start chemical engineering if it doesn't interest you: it'll feel like hell. or at least it did for me when I had to study things that didn't interest me. if you find that anthropology interests you you should do it, same for chemical engineering. I don't think one should do things because they are supposedly "economically stable", this seems a very shallow thing to do, especially considering the nature of our economics.
I know people who studied "theatre and movie science" and they got a job, go figure

 

[IJesusChrist]

banana; in america, chemical engineering has about 10% to do with chemistry, and 90% to do with engineering.

no chemical engineer knows enough to make LSD from college course work

Spice -

You probably won't like this, but I have to say, to really, really make a difference, you have to abide by the academic "rules", that will have the biggest effect - changing the minds of people on "the fence" of psychedelics. If you endorse, like McKenna and Shulgin, you will get to the people that already know or are already interested (for the most part).

In order to get that other 90% lethargic, apathetic group that is misinformed and ill-advised, we need to work through the system, with roots outside... I really believe that is the best course of action...

 

[MichaelVipperman]

Or how about just performing good, interesting research and let whatever comes come? Take an interesting question, and answer it in a novel way. Don't just regurgitate what's already known (for example, it's already known that psychedelics can benefit people. That's not an interesting question, and not worth researching. Certain particulars of HOW or in WHAT WAYS it might have benefit, on other hand, are worth researching).

 

[ararat]

also, there's a bunch of very very interesting things out there that don't necessarily have something to do with psychedelics.

 

[Reasonablelogic]

I agree with Spice 'follow your heart".

I also live in NY and I'm your age (19) and have never taken psychedelics. I've just been reading, experimenting with sounds, and finding myself spiritually.

I wanted to go down the college route and become a mathematician and maybe minor in biology or chem, but honestly I'm not after financial security or the "prestigious certificate of brainwash completion", I'm only after knowledge, understanding and complete liberation. Just get a book, learn the fundamentals and basic procedures of whatever your interest are and go on from there. There is no right or wrong path.

Terence Mckenna has been an influential "awakener" to me. I personally haven't read his books, but I listen to his lectures on Youtube. I have a book called "The Evolutionary Mind", which is a trialogue that contains him, Ralph Abraham, and Rupert Sheldrake, good read. Another "awakener" is Alan Watts.

What part of NY are you from?

 

[zezt]

Also, Pinchbeck talked about a magazine called "Shaman's Drum" that promotes tours to stay with Mestizo shamans. Where can I find info about stuff like this, opinions, reviews, etc? Because, I am going to take a gap year before college and go to Latin America to try to become fluent in Spanish and travel through various countries. Is one of these Shamanic trips a ridiculous idea?

check this out!
RS Wilderness Healing Retreat with Daniel Pinchbeck
Become a member of Reality Sandwich, and you can get to know people who are often arranging visits to places you are wanting to explore,and you would also get extra info and contacts which would help you explore what avenues of study and career you may choose to try and do.
It would be AMAZING if you took video journal of your experiences at something like that, not only for yourself, but others, and for your vocation. It would be particul;arly interesting in your case because as you say, you have not had psychedelic experience yet, so we would see the before and after lol

I'm not really sure but I think I want to use psychadelics as a tool to help my problems: depression (nihilistic), lack of creativity (am a musician but feel very uncreative), don't know what to do with my life (trying to find a direction), and whatever else they offer.

Well they are not called sacred medicine for nuthin! Also, if your willing, express how you feel here, and the exploring of it IS creativity. Ie., you are looking deeper and deeper into things which is exactly what psychedelics is all about--they are the very source of creativity, as is our deeper selves, and nature itself.
I am curious, what is your philosophy of life? Do you get attracted to nihilistic ideas?

Can someone post some links for info about some trips?

How expensive are they, how long, how safe, reasons to do or not to one, etc?

If I'm spending a year in South America do you guys think it'd be a good idea to do one of these psychedelic tours at some point during it?

Banana: Even though I would love to take some anthropology courses in college I don't see myself majoring in it (mainly because my parents wouldn't let me because it's kinda useless). I am looking at more science stuff like engineering. Would studying chemical engineering open any paths into something related to psychedelics (like making lsd )?

I could tell by your persistence that you really do want to explore these nonordinary expedictions Again, check that link I gave you.
I amalomost sure that if you were to contact Daniel personally (his email is there) and explain your interests, passion, and so on, he may--I dont know for sure--be able to arrange a discount for you. He also would be a great contact to have for ideas about what you may wann explore as a career, or vocation.

Here's some thoughts of my own--sorry if they clash with any knowledge you currently hold, but my main encouragement is to always keep asking questions. I had quite a long debate at these forums with Max Freakout a while ago. I was challenging the generally accepted notion that our brain and mind functions like a computer---called Computationalism. Yesterday I found this article: Your Brain is Not a Computer!
I also have been doing a little research about Darwin's theory of evolution and have found there are many holes in it. No, I am not a Christian, but I am aware that this theory has been used in terrible ways in history to crush others, be they other species, and humans, considered not to be as fit as those doing the crushing. Hitler for example was very influenced by this THEORY. I found that out of all Darwin's critics it is the microbiologists who see that theory as dead because of the utter complexity of the cell.

I also question the main leaders that have been the most influential in the psychedelic movement spanning generations. For example Leary, RAW, and McKenna---they are all psychedelic transhumanists. They all consider the human mind to be like a computer---McKenna believed that we could eventually download consciousness onto a computer---and they all seek escape from Earth. I am just pointing this out----asking questions...