Quoi de neuf ?

Bienvenue sur Psychonaut.fr !

Le forum des amateurs de drogues et des explorateurs de l'esprit

Sex, drugs and second thoughts

Caduceus Mercurius

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
14/7/07
Messages
9 628
The LA Times recently ran an article on the impending loss of several unique features of the Netherlands, pointing out the several influences which have led to this situation.

"Now this tall, boyish-looking son of an evangelical pastor is 42 and a member of parliament. His Christian Union Party, which bases much of its policy on biblical doctrine, is trying to remake a government that in his estimation has been morally adrift."

Because the article requires registration to read, I copied the text here.

Sex, drugs and second thoughts

By Geraldine Baum, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
January 4, 2008


Amsterdam - After dropping their packs at a hostel, Ryan Ainsworth and his buddy Richie Bendelow found a shop selling 500 herbal potions that promised to make them high and happy in 500 ways. But the young British tourists went right for the hallucinogenic mushrooms, packaged in clear plastic containers just like the ordinary ones at the greengrocer back home.

The pair took the tips sheet that advised first boiling the mushrooms into a tea "to speed up the effect." It also warned against taking them with hard drugs or alcohol but that "a marijuana joint is no problem and can give you a positive, relaxing feeling."

These guys didn't need advice -- they'd cut loose before in this haven of libertine values and elegant canals. After forking over $24, they made their way to the lush Vondelpark and between them gobbled up the entire box.

The next day, as they were leaving a coffeehouse where they'd bought half a gram of marijuana, they had little to say about the afternoon in the park. "Hey, it's holiday in Holland," said Ainsworth, a 22-year-old kayaking instructor. "Anything goes."

But it may be last call for drugs, sex and live-and-let-live in the Netherlands, one of the most famously broad-minded countries in the world.

Prostitution, abortion, euthanasia, same-sex marriage and magic mushrooms have long been legal here, and soft drugs such as marijuana are technically illegal but are sold with official sanction in small amounts in "coffeehouses." In recent years, however, uneasiness over an influx of Muslim and black immigrants as well as a lifestyle that many believe has gone too far have shifted the Dutch mood away from tolerance and infinite permissiveness.

In 2006, parliament stopped coffeehouses from selling alcohol if they sell marijuana; now, legislators are negotiating to have them located at least 250 yards from schools. This year, a ban on the sale of hallucinogenic mushrooms goes into effect.

"I've been in this business 15 years, and we have never felt so much pressure," said Olaf Van Tulder, manager of the Green House, part of a chain of popular coffeehouses owned by a Dutchman whom High Times magazine has dubbed the "King of Cannabis."

It was only 10 on a recent midweek morning, but already the dealers at the marijuana bar in the back of the Green House were busily weighing marijuana on a small scale and most of the tables were taken by customers rolling joints.

Almost nobody was drinking coffee.

Two young Italians, who already looked a bit wasted, raised two fingers each and pointed to the most expensive hash on the menu, the Dutch Ice-Olator Supreme at $51.80 a gram. Eduardo, the affable dealer, poured out two grams each into a bag, showed the Italians the price on a calculator and waved them off with "Ciao babies!"

Business is good, sure, but the daily struggle with a new drug policing unit has Van Tulder feeling under siege. "Even if there's just a motorbike double-parked out front, they'll shut us down," he says.

Like most natives, Van Tulder, 35, doesn't use marijuana often, but he is concerned that conservative politics will kill Dutch culture: "Listen, these people want to put their religion in society, and I think Amsterdam is dying because of it. It's nice to escape a little from reality."

Joel Voordewind grew up in this city reveling in the punk music scene, and playing drums in a band called No Longer Music (because it was so loud). But he never felt comfortable with Amsterdam's drug use and prostitution and as a kid avoided its red-light district "because you'd get in trouble there."

Now this tall, boyish-looking son of an evangelical pastor is 42 and a member of parliament. His Christian Union Party, which bases much of its policy on biblical doctrine, is trying to remake a government that in his estimation has been morally adrift. Although his party controls only two of 16 ministries, it aligned with liberals to fight for refugees, poor families and the environment while also condemning homosexuality, euthanasia, abortion and youthful experimentation "with everything."

"The people are fed up with the lazy attitude of government. We call it, 'If it's forbidden, we let it go.' Like soft drugs. It's forbidden, but we look the other way," he said, sipping coffee in a bar at the Amsterdam train station. "We have a lot of that kind of policy, and it has given people the feeling that the government was telling them to go their own way."

Although tolerance and diversity have long been a matter of national pride, a series of shocking events has made the Dutch more open to "a firm government with outspoken norms and values," he said.

The killings of maverick populist politician Pim Fortuyn in 2002 and filmmaker Theo Van Gogh two years later, both of whom fanned fears of Islamic extremism, have traumatized this predominantly white, Christian country.

The outward-looking Dutch welcomed the newcomers -- and their mosques and Islamic schools -- but have grown less tolerant toward those who don't share their brand of tolerance. And they're also asking themselves why they're inviting tourists to get stoned in their parks and allowing graceful neighborhoods to devolve into lurid Disneylands with sex clubs and massage parlors.

Amsterdam has the most famous and historic red-light district in Western Europe. Although after eight centuries it is unlikely to disappear any time soon, it is in the midst of reinvention.

Last month, Amsterdam's mayor and City Council unveiled a plan to squeeze out brothels and escort services by forcing their owners to apply for permits and by raising the minimum age of prostitutes to 21 from 18. The city is also spending $37 million to buy out a landlord who owns a quarter of the city's buildings where nearly naked women pose behind display windows, red light literally flashing over their heads.

If the City Council gets its way, windows featuring women for sale will give way to displays featuring women's clothes for sale, and historic buildings will be restored to attract upmarket hotels and restaurants, with the remaining brothels clustered on a just few streets.

"The romantic picture of the area is outdated if you see the abuses in the sex industry, and that is why the council has to act," Amsterdam Mayor Job Cohen, a member of the Labor Party, said at a news conference announcing the changes. "We don't want to get rid of prostitution, but we do want to cut crime significantly."

Local politicians across the Netherlands have concluded that by legalizing prostitution in 2000, they opened up their cities to international crime organizations trafficking in women, children and hard drugs. The authorities want to wipe out the crime and are also weary of boozy weekend trippers ogling prostitutes and buying illegal drugs on the streets.

In fact, these openly seedy scenes come as a bit of a surprise in this beautiful city full of old churches and bikes -- about 600,000 of them serving 750,000 people. In the central neighborhood, the streets are lined with 17th and 18th century buildings, many with stores quaintly selling clogs and wheels of cheese or old bookshops attracting students.

But turn a corner and there in a window like a mannequin come to life is a young Polish woman spilling out of her bikini. Above her window is a number and the red-neon tube light. As she shifts poses, with her shoulders back and chin out, she tries to remain perched on a high stool.

A few windows down are two older-looking Dominican women dressed in matching white underwear and sharing a fat joint; they look bored and frozen. Nearby, a girl in a black leather bathing suit -- she's Dutch with long blond hair -- is talking on a cellphone while winking and blowing kisses at a clutch of Russian men.

The men circle back a couple of times, but the Dutch girl gets to size them up, and when they don't look promising she slides off her stool and flops on a single bed in her tiny room. She closes her eyes.

Marisha Majoor, who runs the Prostitution Information Center, began walking these streets 20 years ago when almost all the prostitutes were Dutch and the trade was less organized. She eventually quit and started the center, a small storefront next to one of Amsterdam's oldest churches. It operates, more or less, like any other tourist gift shop, except it sells dozens of sex-related items, such as lipsticks in the shape of penises and refrigerator magnets featuring buxom prostitutes.

Majoor, now 37, is convinced that the new concern about the exploitation of women and crime is simply a ploy to see these areas gentrified and, from her perspective, only means that more prostitutes will be forced to work in unsafe conditions.

She also attributes the new anxiety about red-light districts to a fear of migrants.

"For many women in the world, working in the Netherlands is so much better than working in their own country," Majoor said.

While she is talking, a young British tourist stops by to find out how much the women in the window charge ($52 to $74 for 10 to 15 minutes). When the young man asks about safe sex, Majoor's co-worker sells him a "Pleasure Guide" with the pertinent warnings and facts.

Voordewind would like to see his native city's red-light district radically changed. He recently proposed turning it into an artists' colony like Paris' Montmartre. He'd have the city buy the remaining windows and restore the buildings to their original beauty and open them for artists' studios and galleries.

"The district is now a tourist attraction not because of the nice buildings, but because of the windows," he said. "It's very a sad situation. . . . I want it completely changed."

Source: The LA Times
 
good read, thank you :)

are there reasons why especially the netherlands became that liberal about those things? I wonder. this place is so unique.

damn I have to go to Amsterdam some time :D maybe when I'm interrailing this summer :>
 
Its a pretty weird thing i thought that Amsterdam its self is has green majority when it comes to the local politics. or am i wrong?
Or it might be the guys in The Hague who are runnin this show..
:?
 
are there reasons why especially the netherlands became that liberal about those things?
I guess once a country is liberal about cannabis, it will become liberal about the other things as well.
 
Almost nobody was drinking coffee.
That... was sort of funny ^^

As for the article, it was interesting. Can't really say a lot about it since I'm not really into politics. Never heard of Joel Voordewind. Never been to the Red Light District.
 
lol*fan a dit:
Joel Voordewind

Never heard of him before, but I googled him and found his site
www.joelvoordewind.nl

This is what he says about drugs (in Dutch):
Drugs
Het Nederlandse gedoogbeleid voor softdrugs heeft tot een bizarre constructie geleid. Volgens de wet is de handel in cannabis verboden, maar ‘coffeeshops’ worden in alle openheid gedoogd, met alle gevolgen van dien (‘achterdeurprobleem’, zolderplantages, criminaliteit). Inmiddels is overduidelijk dat het gedoogbeleid softdrugs niet uit de sfeer van de criminaliteit heeft kunnen halen, maar druggebruikers samen met burgers die overlast ervaren, juist in de kou heeft laten staan. De leeftijd waarop jongeren kennis maken met softdrugs is verontrustend laag: 7% van de 13-jarigen heeft softdrugs gebruikt. Het aantal cannabiscliënten in de verslavingszorg neemt toe. Bij jongeren gaat cannabisgebruik gepaard met hersenbeschadiging, agressief en delinquent gedrag en met schoolproblemen.

Al die jongere en oudere verslaafden hebben ouders of andere familieleden die met hen slachtoffer zijn van hun verslaving. Het gedoogbeleid ondermijnt de samenleving. Door softdrugs te gedogen maakt de overheid zich mede verantwoordelijk voor een gebruikerscultuur waarvan de zwakken in onze samenleving de dupe zijn.

Gebruik van harddrugs zoals heroïne en cocaïne gaat gepaard met ontluistering van de mens. De gebruiker is afhankelijk van de drugs geworden. Een overheid die niet ingrijpt, laat mensen moedwillig de vernieling ingaan. Ook veroorzaken gebruikers veel overlast. Een duidelijk afsprakenkader met gemeenten, scherpere vervolgingsrichtlijnen en intensivering van verplichtende afkickprogramma’s is geboden. Het drugsbeleid verdraagt geen ‘dubbele boodschappen’.

Duidelijkheid in het drugsbeleid:

* Een einde aan het gedogen.
De hoge THC-gehaltes in nederwiet vormen hiertoe een reden te meer. Coffeeshops en growshops worden gesloten. Voor kleinschalige (huis)teelt wordt geen uitzondering gemaakt.
* Hogere straffen voor grootschalige drugshandel.
Het overgrote deel van de georganiseerde criminaliteit in ons land bestaat immers uit (soft)drugshandel.
* Partydrugs als XTC als harddrug behandelen.
Dit betekent een consequente opsporing en vervolging van de verkoop en het bezit van XTC, in het bijzonder bij uitgaansgelegenheden en dance-festijnen.
* Richt verslavingszorg op afkicken.
Ook bij methadonprogramma’s. Het op medische indicatie verstrekken van heroïne is niet de aangewezen weg. Proefprojecten met gratis verstrekking van harddrugs zoals cocaïne en heroïne zijn onacceptabel.
* Help verslaafden aan een menswaardig bestaan.
Hoogwaardige verslavingszorg is mede gericht op arbeidsrehabilitatie en reïntegratie, evenals experimenten met meer verplichtende vormen van afkicken.

I plan on sending this guy an email saying that he should get his facts straight and that marijuana does not cause braindamage, agression, delinquency and bad school performance, backed by scientific evidence. I also plan on saying that his idea that crime hasn't faded with the current policy should not imply that we should ban drugs altogether, because this would make it even harder to control. The government shouldn't decide what plants people use, because it is a private matter, just like his religion is for him.
 
I plan on sending this guy an email saying that he should get his facts straight
Send him this one too:

250313430O970627548.jpg
 
Well I was hoping to eventually in immigrate to Amsterdam but now after reading this topic I fear that it will be almost as bad as living in the states. *sigh*
 
^Well.... no.

Weed is still available to the public, it's just that the 'coffeeshops' cannot buy it legally.

Shrooms are still legal, though this might change soon. However, there are a lot of people planning on growing them at home.

Most other drugs are pretty much available if you know how to look. 8)
 
I have a feeling there is a polarisation going on in the Netherlands. The discussion around drug policy is getting more and more into the public eye.
On one end there is the current government who are following the opium law to the letter and on the other end there is a group that is getting bigger who says drugs should be legalized altogether.

The reason we have coffeeshops is quite simple, it's called reasonable drug policy. When cannabis became more popular in the 70's and its use was growing. The Dutch government had the effects and health risks of cannabis researched. The outcome of the research stated there wasn't enough risk to public health to illegalize it. It would have become pretty much legal altogether if we hadn't signed the psychotropic act of the UN. The government followed internation rules by penalizing dealing big quantities/growing more severely, but allowing sale of small quantities in coffeeshops.
 
he should get his facts straight and that marijuana does not cause braindamage, agression, delinquency and bad school performance, backed by scientific evidence.
Scientific evidence? Bible readers aren't so fond of scientific evidence.

It's easier to blame a substance than to point out the shortcomings of the current educational system, television, the nuclear family structure, young mothers who don't even speak Dutch, etc.

It's easy to take a glance at the coffeeshops, notice teenagers listening to Tupac and Snoop Dogg, never taking a break from that lifestyle to pick up a book, and conclude that weed makes you quit school and rebel against your parents. Easy, but not accurate.

Weed doesn't make me aggressive. Christianity makes me aggressive. But then I smoke some weed, and the aggression flows away again, as I hate the sin (modern Christianity) but not the sinner (the average Christian).
 
CaduceusMercurius a dit:
Tupac and Snoop Dogg

:prayer:

Point taken. I am however not planning on convincing him with scientific evidence, it just supports my point which is based on common sense. If he doesn't want to listen, that is his right, but I do think that he should listen to the people he represents in parliament and will make this point along the way.

Pin him down like Jesus on the Cross, so to speak. :wink:
 
Voordewind would like to see his native city's red-light district radically changed. He recently proposed turning it into an artists' colony like Paris' Montmartre. He'd have the city buy the remaining windows and restore the buildings to their original beauty and open them for artists' studios and galleries.

These studios will be given state money when that pot of money runs empty they go bankrupt and the city can buy the buildings anyway.
These woman WILL work, wether its at a place where savety can be a guarantee like in the red light district, or at some place else. They need the money, they will work! You cant stop that. Just like stoners, they choose to smoke grass. If you made that illegal you'd just make criminals out of normal citizens. Why would anyone prefer that? Because the best way of using drugs is not doing them at all.. Thats there starting point at all time at any discussion(with CDA) about drugs. Little side note: our prime minister(head of CDA) made a "funny" comment that a Kopstoot(beer + gin) is a good drink since that combines both the protestant and catholics favorite drink. Thats rather sick if you ask me. Since there are children of 13 that drink till they are in a coma. Hospitols have there hands full of drunk teens in the weekends. Police man are giving away chocolate in Zaandam, to calm the mass..
Its fucked man. Hope this country learned its leasson about voting for christians.. Since the christian party is "leading" this country the number of foodbanks(they give away food for those in need) has grown big time. Even some churches have a special "bread program" wich dates from 1600 or so, to feed those who are hongry. I think its sad that our extremly rich country lets people down like it where low life dogs. And they keep calling themselfs christians.. right..

But hey beer/liquor commercials are still allowed. Every pub has a huge sign hanging out side that says: HEINEKEN, or whaever brand.

Its real twisted.. Coffeeshops even pay taxes. They estimate the amount of illegal grass sold anualy and give them a fine based on that estimate.
And if there so scared for our children, inform them about drugs! Than they are able to make there own conscious choise! But then again why would anyone have people that think for themselfs.................................................

Its illegal.. but hey if you pay taxes than we wont bother you but your supplier!

Red light district is typical dutch culture we dont want our culture to be christianized. Nor verwilderd.
 
Retour
Haut