Religious views.

[Crimzen]

Because of the spreading out of this topic into almost every thread in the general section i think its a good idea to have a single thread where different aspects of religion can be discussed

Personally i consider myself agnostic, i dont believe in any religion and my idea of 'god' is simply the universe, so i find no reason to use the word god unless im refering to a more abstract feature of the universe rather than something direct like physics

Im not a fan of organized religion simply because i find that the majority of them are there to take money and accumulate power
however i dont think religion is evil, i think its an incredibly interesting topic of discussion
i find it especially interesting how religions have evolved through time alone with society

so please, discuss
also i realize this is a sensitive issue for some so without tip toeing around subjects please try to keep a fairly sensitive approach

 

[BrainEater]

its a deep topic for sure in my opinion. while i am fairly convinced that often the language barrier prevents each others understanding, if not countered with a strong respect, empathy and effort to connect than to separate; language also can help to achieve a constructive conversation or exchange of ideas and is actually a working mechanism or so on more levels than we may be aware of.
so words can hold so different meanings for everyone that when someone says something, even being very sure in the formulation of the idea/concept/experience and on what the person wants to express with that, it can still mean something totally different for another. of course a lot of things can have a influence in that, like well whatever basically...
anyway some words seem to be worn out of their supposed true meaning for several reasons, yet the individual if it can still use its own brain constructively and actively, has some power in defining or discerning the meaning at least for themselves.
i am mostly speculating so please feel encouraged to think for yourself and get to your own conclusions. :wink:

that said i think we all and everything, everyone, etc was created by the all-creator aka pi aka allah (arabic for "the god"). i believe in that all-creator as the supreme being and all-transcendant person. yes god is definately a person, yet surely not in the normal sense of the word, like a human person. god is while having created everything, also the experiencer and knower of everything, and sort of the first and ultimate timetraveller. of course god is also the first and ultimate truth. i am sure god is a personal god for each and every living being but also the master between them. being infinitely intelligent, all-knowing and all-present it is certain that god is beyond our human comprehension and unfathomable. we may have a glimpse or by the mercy of god get a higher knowledge or consciousness than we normally could, however probably no one can ever be equal to god in that sense.


well so i am sure we all make mistakes and sometimes do bad things, but god can, if he wants forgive everything, given we are open to learn and better ourselves and approach with honesty, sincerity. that is i think very important, as we probably are here to learn and grow.
who else than the all-creator can grant forgiveness to a degree of absolute redemption? sure, we can all forgive and probably should often strive to do that, but to me it seems the very notion of forgiveness is somewhat reserved and tied more exclusively to the creator than to his creations. hopefully it makes some sense and you can understand what i try to say.
since god is beyond comprehension we may wonder what sense does it make to even think or talk about god.
i think that point deserves some respect, but we can encounter indescribable or inexplicable moments in our own experiences as well and somehow try to communicate them. so while we can look at it and learn something, in a way
it may still remain not understandable and infinite in nature. needless to say god understands all languages and all forms of communication and is able to communicate in whatever form he wants. i think we can learn of the infinite compassion, love and mercy of god, if we become like a child in a way, for we are surely no matter how old we are basically all like children for the infinite being that is god. always, its probably important to develop gratitude towards god and to learn to trust in him. i truly hope the sheer ignorance many people including myself, have towards the magnifience of creation and god, may slowly fade away or be crushed spontaneously for their own good. moreover god can do anything and whatever he likes, thus i think it makes some sense to fear god above everything else, sort of giving him credit.
surely god is all-merciful but i just wanted to have mentioned that, in order for everyone to be sensible.
one more thing i want to say... to me it appears god is certainly beyond gender and highly exalted above having a son. :idea:

for some time i also was more inclined to especially focus on a possible impersonal sort of worship or perception of the world, the universe, etc, yet somehow it dawned upon me if there's a creator we probably all must have a personal relationship with him. often it seemed like a blockage for me to only feel like being able to perceive god as separate from
myself, maybe because of christian fear, unworthiness indoctrination/conditioning or shit like that.. know what i'm sayin??
anyway, i am sure each will and should find his/her own truth within his/her heart and by how thoughts are displayed for/to him/her. so a realisation is different for everybody and we should all at least respect each others' developments, beliefs and perspectives. i think often we forget about how life and so many other things are just a miracle, but we condition our perception thru the mind besides likewise our perception thru the senses so that sometimes
the perspective we have towards things, when changed can alter our experience dramatically. see this as an encouragement to deeply listen to your heart and feelings in order to (be able to) more willfully recognize a possible necessity for the changing of priority between feeling and thought. i don't mean thoughts are unimportant, just sayin'.. maybe you can understand better or become more aware or have other benefits... 8)
a last thing that just crossed my mind. pay attention to your dreams for guidance and insight. i see them sort of as a
connection to the higher self aspect or so. surely god can communicate thru dreams, too, and i think i heard in a song, that
god never sleeps or gets tired, but always dreams, which to me made a lot of sense. alright enough for now...
sorry, i was a bit confused while writing all this, hopefully it's still "somewhat" intelligible.
all glory belongs to the LORD!!!
peace & love to you!!may god bless you and have mercy!!!

 

[Please Stop It Now]

Religion = ignorance.

http://www.lousycanuck.ca/?p=4234

 

[GregAndrsn]

I don't have a preference. I cannot know, so I put a bit more faith in there being an anthropomorphised God than not, I mean why not?

Yet my true beliefs - what I really think about the universe is that even on psychodelics, what we believe is a glimpse of "god" or as crimzen says - the universe - we are still, even then, in the dark.

I don't think we can literally in any contextual, communicative way realize what God is.

To be extremely straight forward, I don't think anyone communicates directly with God on a psychological level. I think that is a bit too farfetched. I think that is an extreme anthropomorphism on God, although I may be wrong - I talk to "gods" all the time, I speak to them, I put some kind of faith into them, I put my respect and acceptance into them, mostly to show my love for the older religions - the maya, the native americans, the ancient chinese and japanese... I believe there is something to respecting a entity other-worldly.

I cannot empathize with chit-chatting with God though. . . Not to belittle it, and not to say it is foolish, but I just feel like that is not something I can understand.

 

[zezt]

Look at it this way. When we eat good food and drink good water and breathe good air we feel healthy, vital, and alive. So say you have had a real good breakfast and walk in the hills, or by the sea, or in the forest----you feel so expansive dont you. You may see a view and all of a sudden are completely overwhelmed by the incomprehensible beauty and wonder of everything.
I can feel like this on some days when others may think it is looking dull. But maybe they hate their job, their life. Some people dont even apprecntate a glorious day, their face buried in a mobile phone---you see this more and more all the time dont you?

Now food also includes entheogenic vegetation right? It is a food, but our fucked-up culture has made it 'drugs' and 'controlled', but fuck them--it is really food, and so imagine eating this food and suddenly you are not 'you' anymore. If I was to ask you who you were in your ecstasy just what would you say...? Would the question even make sense? because aht are are now is everything flowing, alive, multdimensional---and this feeling anciently was god. You had become more than your usual day to day self

When you look at the tree, the animal, the other human being you feel you are feeling how it is they feel

 

[ophiuchus]

"i dont believe in any religion and my idea of 'god' is simply the universe, so i find no reason to use the word god unless im refering to a more abstract feature of the universe rather than something direct like physics"

one can have amazing conversations with people who are stuck with a smaller scope of words if you learn to use their lingo.

 

[Crimzen]

i get you

its just most religious people are all about whats in scripture and think of god being a literal dude sitting on some clouds in heaven and they take all the metaphor and morals in their scriptures as true stories

 

[itsscience]

Crimzen, you shouldn't get too hung up on whether these people consider them true stories, the debate has been raging for thousands of years. What matters is the morals that these stories are trying to convey.

To take it to the literal level, many people believe that Adam and Eve were real people and were the first humans. No matter how retarded you and I think that is it's not important at all, what is important is the moral it contains. Think of God in the Adam & Eve story as being the Universe and think of Adam & Eve being the human race. God (the universe) tells Adam & Eve not to eat the fruit, they ignore the rule and get completely fucked over. If we don't listen to the warnings the universe gives us we will get completely fucked over by the universe. If the human race continues to treat the planet like a cesspool the planet will eventually evict us.

 

[Crimzen]

im long since over it, just trying to convey myself to certain people so that im not misunderstood

and theres alot of really messed up morals in the bible as well..
i cant handle such inconsistency and contradictions and then people taking this stuff for fact

i know its pointless trying to argue the point i just want to be heard rather than let them think everyone in the world believes what they do

 

[zezt]

Crimzen, you shouldn't get too hung up on whether these people consider them true stories, the debate has been raging for thousands of years. What matters is the morals that these stories are trying to convey.

To take it to the literal level, many people believe that Adam and Eve were real people and were the first humans. No matter how retarded you and I think that is it's not important at all, what is important is the moral it contains. Think of God in the Adam & Eve story as being the Universe and think of Adam & Eve being the human race. God (the universe) tells Adam & Eve not to eat the fruit, they ignore the rule and get completely fucked over. If we don't listen to the warnings the universe gives us we will get completely fucked over by the universe. If the human race continues to treat the planet like a cesspool the planet will eventually evict us.

True, but that tale is not helping with that wisdom, it is a major root CAUSE of what is actually going on. You are defending a toxic myth which dengrates women, makes out nature is fallen, prohibits entheogenic fruit, and tells mankind via adma that they have dominion over all nature!

 

[dirk.bruere]

Religion is the explanation people use to explain the mystical experience to themselves and others.
The mystical experience is what it is.
The religious explanation is just an explanation, which may be right or wrong (actually, mostly wrong IMHO)

 

[ophiuchus]

i feel you crimzen.

it does pay well to know before which battles can be won. what i like to do, if nothing "directly" productive can be done with them, is try to make it into a personal learning experience. i can't tell you how many times i've listened to a "holier than thou" christian spouting off to anyone within earshot. but at that point i use their "selfish" energy as my own, and instead of focusing on being irritated by them (which can still be a present feeling due to shouting and other various things[like skewed morals *cough*homo*cough*]) i try to use my specialized filter to glean a piece of valuable information for myself.