Praying

[ararat]

lately I've found some (for lack of a better word) enjoyment in praying. several books talked about praying, one fell in my hands, by Gandhi, that is all about praying. however, it doesn't provide any prayers, such as all the other books, which is kind of annoying after reading tenths of pages of praise for praying.

it bothers me sometimes that I create false dualities through prayer. can you give me some tips to keep prayer nondual, in a way? also, do you have some prayers that you can recommend? do you pray?



writing fuel levels are pretty low these days, and tiredness prevails right now. I'll write a bit more on that topic when the time is right. the idea of this topic had been lingering around for some time, wanted to get it out finally.

 

[IJesusChrist]

What are you praying to?

I did an experiment my freshman year of college where I practiced praying to the christian god. It was... informative, but since I have a strong urge to not believe in a christian god, I was saw no change. Whether change was possible or not I'm not certain.

when I did pray I would usually just pray to be happy, for myself to come into contact with opportunities to spread happiness, and so on.

I gave up on praying to a specific entity, and started to meditate with the same intentions -

"Everyone deserves my openess."
"Everyone deserves my love."
"All people are loving at their most basic."
"There are no evil people, just evil ideologies..."

What I was basically doing was praying to myself. It does do something.

I basically just "convince" myself of these topics, continually saying them to myself, continually believing this, focusing on this. You will notice a kind of "click", although not extremely sudden, that makes you feel like you are reaching your destination, that you are changing, that your mind is focused and you are open to change. It's basically just meditation with a goal in mind. That's my perspective and experience atleast.

 

[Teonanacapilli]

A set of mantras like IJC's is good. I wrote up a personal manifesto with some guidelines on how to live, that I meant to read every morning/night as a sort of prayer deal, I think I will commit to that now. Besides that I have a prayer I say at the taking or losing of a life, usually only when I catch and kill a fish myself (the only occasion in which I will eat meat):

"I know you my friend, and respect you. Your spirit and energy goes with the universe, your body stays with us. Go in peace and with my thanks."

I need to make something for consecrating meals too, it's very important to give thanks for these things that are so often taken for granted. As for praying to any specific entity, I used to pray to the christian god, but don't believe in that sort of thing anymore. I used to pray for things I wanted, whether it was a possession or an event to go well etc. I understand these things are based on my will and actions and the flow of the universe now, so I only let what will be, be. But I thank God (myself and all that surrounds me) whenever things go in a way that I percieve as good.

 

[itsscience]

I think praying (and probably meditating but I don't know much about it other than I suspect it is very similar to what I do when I'm praying) is a very beneficial thing to do. I don't think it matters what/who you pray to other than I think it helps the process to direct the inner dialogue to something. In this sense I can see some utility in mantras but I think they are, by their very nature, limiting in that they are rigid in their words and therefore their content and application.

When one looks at the general pattern or content of prayers the themes are fairly constant:

1. "I pray God that you bless my family and friends and look after them." Here you are recalling those dear to you, remembering each one of them and realising the love you have for them, the love that makes you want to see them safe and happy. Often in this type or section of prayer you will recall specific event in people's lives and pray for a successful outcome. This process is reaffirming your connections in life and an expression of your love for your fellow man.

2. "Dear God please help me to deal with the death of my loved one/pass these exams/recover from this illness/get that job/finish this project." Here you are reflecting on the daily realities of your life. You are listing the important events in your mind, acknowledging what has to be done. A synopsis of current events, matters of the now. Prayer is helping you to clarify in your mind the important things that are happening and accepting your role in them.

3. "Dear God, thank you so much for everything you have given me." Now you are recounting all the many blessings in your life. You are realising how lucky you are to have what you have and thereby you are ensuring that you won't take for granted the good things you have.

4. "Dear God please forgive my sins/help me to change." No one can punish us as well as we punish ourselves. Here you are seeking attonement for the wrongs you have done or acknowledging your flaws. By recounting your flaws examining them mentally you are attempting to change those aspects of yourself that you see as bad.

Obviously the prayer(s) will take a lot longer than these one liners but what I'm saying is that prayer is like an internal audit and a great tool particularly if approached as an internal dialogue. You don't have to belive in a God but for me it helps the process and also helps me to deal with my tinyness in such an immense universe.

 

[IJesusChrist]

This should be devoted to a new thread, but you believe in a Diety figure, itsscience? A christian/muslim/jewish God?

I think praying and meditating (for a specific purpose, as opposed to clearing the mind) simply enhance neurons, connections, ideas, and concepts that would otherwise be left unattended. It is the way of using important ideologies - by repeating or immersing one's self within them - that would otherwise go unused in our current living conditions.

Going to school and learning why carbon is really neat does not reiterate (ever) how great love is and how important friends are, so I need extra time to devote to that.

 

[itsscience]

Oh but were it that simple IJC, the religions are merely human constructs designed to regulate human interaction. They are a set of moral norms clothed in the guise of divine wisdom to give them authority. A useful tool, I believe, in the infancy of society but now relegated to a philosophical life raft for the down (not that this comment should be seen as denigrating the religions because I believe they give hope/relief to millions of people who need it).

I believe in a power in the universe. It is the power that ensures if I truly desire something and bend my will to its attainment, I will have it. Some might call it the law of attraction coupled with a theory of intelligent design. I guess in its simplest form it is that which runs through and constitutes all matter, energy.

It makes it easier for that part of my brain that is hard wired to human interaction to give this power a persona thus making it an "entity" of sorts. It is to this power/entity that I "pray" in a form of internal dialogue.

There is one mantra by which I try to live my life and that is: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

 

[IJesusChrist]

 

[ophiuchus]

a prayer (with words) will always be dualistic, as that's all you can do with language, describe something in regards to it's counterpoint. i personally "abandoned" conventional "prayer" for the idea of meditation, as it allows me to do the same thing, only focusing on higher "concepts" if you will that are nondual. (this whole sentence is NOT in the spirit of what im talking about, because... it's made of dualities; but you get the picture...)

the meditating on non dual concepts seems to come more naturally while i've been simultaneously exploring philosophy. the tricky thing to remember is that one cannot meditate on something that is non-dual, because with 'something' naturally arises the concept of 'nothing'.

 

[ararat]

I found a prayer by Saint Francis of Assisi some time ago that I want to share with you because it is a very beautiful and I think powerful one :heart:

Lord, make me an instrument of thy peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
Where there is injury, pardon;
Where there is doubt, faith;
Where there is despair, hope;
Where there is darkness, light;
Where there is sadness, joy;

O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
To be consoled as to console,
To be understood as to understand,
To be loved as to love:
For it is in giving that we receive,
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
It is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

 

[ophiuchus]

 

[ophiuchus]

the pointing finger still contains it's own beauty