music as a drug & music nazis

[BrainEater]

hi all!!

i mean that in the way that apparently music can possibly have similar but also different effects on people, like drugs can have. it's fascinating, if you want to study the effects of drugs or music on the psyche or the psyche itself, because under certain circumstances (like listening to music) the psyche can be very revealing, too... to me it seems, that what applies to psychedelic experiences somewhat applies to music listening experiences, too....
for example how much the expectation for the experience matters for the experience itself and how much you are able to drop the expectation or not.... something like that... well but then again we probably can't even separate the subject of music and drugs in a way that would really make sense, because they are so connected. i really think we could say listening to music is or can be a psychedelic experience by itself. making music or listening to it and taking drugs are possibly very spiritual activities and maybe therefore it would make sense that in that area there would be the possibility for facism, too..
spirituality and suppression of it are very historical appearances or so on our world. my conclusion to that is how much and in what way the unificiation of the people is forced, but that should only be marginally noted here.

what happened with hitler was a relatively connected thing to that kind of topic i suppose... because it was about
abolishing anything that separates the state and the people, if you can reduce it to that. they simply burned any knowledge
and killed any people who contradicted the ideology. so what i mean by music nazis are people who reject other people,
just because they don't like the same music, which is a very ignorant thing to do. or maybe even reject music, just because
they don't like the people that listen to it. something like that...
but then again i would even go so far as to say, that there may even be "good music nazis" lol.... but of course this would be
a matter of perspective... i suppose in the end it boils down to the notion of compulsory (conditioned) judgement...
i just wanted to say how big the difference can be in the way you listen to music... if you ask me, music can possibly
say more than 1000 pictures in the way that a picture can say more than 1000 words...
so i probably can suggest to try to have an as unbiased approach towards the biased perspective/paradigm towards music or other things you may have connected to it or so... lol

i am sure it is a kind of fucked up topic, but nevertheless interesting to discuss...any thoughts???


peace

 

[IJesusChrist]

i have a friend who listens to about 90% metal and always is pushing it on me, trying to get me to listen to it, saying its the best, saying i have to like it, saying the people who make it are the most talented.

then i turn on my music and he mimics it, degrading it like a child imitating someone s/he doesn't like. im sick of it. always always always same shit!

I listen to my music. I respect everyone elses music (except some rap and country, which degrades the mind imo). Music is good. Music is a drug. Music is creativity and exploration...

 

[H2O2]

To OP,

I find that attitude (musical elitism) mainly in the very young... and the very old. Though I'm sure there's many in the middle. Personally, I'm like the Borg of music, I absorb other people's whole collections, everything rap country yodel the weirder the better, and have since I was a child. Also, people who associate too strongly with music they buy ...music they never made, yet seem compelled to let define them, seem a bit ridiculous. it's music, it's a tool. Why let other people's work define you as a human being?

Seems like fetishism or something to me.
The height of consumeristic materialism.

Other than that, your post is rather hard to read and make sense of for me.
But, let me give it a shot.

1) You can turn off music a lot easier than turning off a trip.
2) Music definitely has an effect, and people should choose wisely the effect they wish to promote.

 

[ophiuchus]

i definitely believe that music has the ability to influence ones emotions, so on that ground i can see how it relates to psychedelic experiences. a good illustration of that would be to look at the youth of today. in general, their involvement with the popular music scenes tends to express itself through the individuals appearance, and mannerisms.

this is not to say however that this is a one way street (like many conservative voices may say). that is to say, music does not generally influence those that do not wish to be influenced or are not impressionable. the person surrounds themselves in the music that they wish to be surrounded by, generally speaking. so the influencing is only a magnification of what is/was already inside of the individual. rather, if the individual does not agree with/enjoy the music, it will still influence them, but most likely in a fashion opposite of what the artist intended. this topic does contain a lot of grey area however, as there are many complex aspects involved in the social act of sharing music between individuals.

 

[mosaicmouse]

I like what's been said here.

I think the elitism, especially in the young years, has a lot to do with identity. You choose music that talks to you and you let it be a part of yourself.

I think if you stop building your identity on a specific collection of music the elitism stops. What is "taste" other than an individual trait?

 

[BrainEater]

thanks for the answers.. i guess i agree with most what has been said...
it seems it's just another perspective on the ego-dilemma. like how people need something to define themselves thru, or cling to.. and when someone or even something threatens that ilusory self-image, they go to war... LOL
in other words... kindergarden shit on a whole other level... hahahhahaa :lol: :lol: :lol:
...... :x :? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


peace

 

[Yulquen]

I think the elitism, especially in the young years, has a lot to do with identity. You choose music that talks to you and you let it be a part of yourself.

I think if you stop building your identity on a specific collection of music the elitism stops. What is "taste" other than an individual trait?

I like this idea.
I think we have a strong relationship to our tastes because to some extent they define who we are. We therefore have a strong attachement to what we like because it's an important part of ourselves.
Maybe having disdain for other people's music taste is a way to place yourself above the other person... music elitism can therefore be a way to affirm your ego. In the young years as you say, one is building one's identity, which I believe can go through a process of finding your place, and thus for some people, trying to put yourself above others. (but that is quite possibily bullshit psychology)
H202 said he saw that mostly in the very young and the very old, and maybe old people go through the same stage of finding a place in a world which has throroughly changed since they were young, where they have lost their former points of reference and thus replace them with the things they like, such as music. Again, sorry for the bullshit psychology...

That might also be why, like H202 said, some people let music define their identity: people are compelled to find a place in one way or another, and often this is achieved by being part of a particular social group/"scene", by listening to the same music, wearing the same clothers, etc., imitating other people's behaviour to have an identity (which of course, does actually the complete opposite)

I'm actually not sure what you mean by music elitism. Do you mean thinking that the music you enjoy is better than everything else? if so, I think to some extent it's quite a normal process (it is rewarding to think of your taste as superior, because of the strong link to your identity I was referring to).

On the subject of music as a psychedelic experience, I can see what you mean. Both are very personnal experiences: we like a particular type of music because we feel connected to it, it can remind us of past experiences, childhood etc. So music is, like psychedelics, a powerful and profoundly emotional experience which has a strong relation to who we are, and also something that we can only experience through ourselves (what music makes us feel depends on who we are).
This also means that it is a great tool for "deep" thinking and introspection.

There is another dimension, which is that music can make us travel by to other places by evoking atmospheres, and make us feel a wide array of emotions, exactly like psychedelics as far as I'm concerned. I think this is one of the reasons why the vast majority (if not all) users of psychedelics are also well into their music... (and why a lot of people interested in music are also into drugs, at least in my experience). it is somewhat a similar process of "exploring dimensions", reliving past emotions, and as I said a very personal experience, an emotional journey that takes us deep into ourselves.

But I don't think all of what I just said is always true though... the example of people who listen to music because they want to be part of a scene, for example... I don't think in that case you can really compare the musical experience a psychedelic journey, since the reasons that dictate one's enjoyment of music are not the same. This is not to say that not everyone can enjoy music to the level I just wrote about, everyone probably has one kind of music that they can reflect upon in this way (or maybe not... at least, I think that a lot of people don't give music such a huge importance, it's more background noise for them... but I can't put myself in other people's head, so who knows...)

To be fair I find it quite hard to express myself on the subject without writing way more than that (since I believe a lot of other factors are to be taken into account), and it's possible that I'm chatting a lot of shit. But the question of the relationship between one's identity and one's music taste (or tastes in general) is very interesting.

 

[ophiuchus]

yes, i left a lot of holes in my opinion as well, as there are many many complex variables to consider. one could really dedicate an entire day to the topic and still have more to talk about. i think you've shed some light on it.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I don't like talking about music any more. Everyone is entitled to their own music and having 7 room mates has really made me sick of debating what "good" music is.

I listen to everything, I listen to single songs (I rarely, ever listen to an entire album) cause to be honest, I think music, real talent, is a gift, some kind of cosmic channeling (don't take it too literally) into someone's mind. Not ever piece of music on an album is going to be a masterpiece, however, having one song out of 14 that is astounding? Much better chance of that.

Just the same as I know all my art isn't really great, I still make it. A select few "speak" to me...

 

[Shamanomenon]

Personally, I've grown tired of music. I rarely ever listen to it any more by my own choosing. You know what I really love? What is my drug? What is my equivalent to psychedelic experiences? Silence. Try to find it. You won't. It'll become your drug as well.

 

[BrainEater]

interessting ideas... 8)
to IJC: lol yeah man ... i agree... shit like that somehow makes me sick, too... it's like sometimes it even seems to boil down to that the people's ignorance doesn't allow them to acknowledge others' subjectivity of experience and hence taste.
and therefore it's like you have to buy into a war lol.... subliminal signs of modern facism ... lol just kidding but it definately has some truth in it.

to shamanomenom: i had such phases, too.. what led me to it was the disgust how A LOT of music nowadays like also other media just seem to be reduced to only being business... which is absolutely boring... hmm however i also found silence to be an amazing drug, too lol... interestingly enough i also found silence in some music...and i found music in silence... it's too amazing lol... not easy to describe what i mean, but hopefully you know what i mean anyway.


unfortunately i don't really have time to write now... maybe later or soo.... :retard: :lol: :lol:

peace

 

[Sludge]

It's quite difficult in my case because I listen to a lot of music, a lot of music styles and in the mean time I hate many styles of music that are widely broadcast. And in my friends I don't know much ones who like the things I make them listen to. And I can be some sort of nazi when there is a computer around. But I tend to restrain myself.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Personally, I've grown tired of music. I rarely ever listen to it any more by my own choosing. You know what I really love? What is my drug? What is my equivalent to psychedelic experiences? Silence. Try to find it. You won't. It'll become your drug as well.

absolute silence is deafening. :wink:

I've been to a few places in the world where I was able to experience absolute silence... Its bizarre, I teared up a bit and so did my pops.

 

[ophiuchus]

it's beautiful. :heart: