More truth about our most beloved plants

[HeartCore]

I've been digging into the history of Christianity for a long time, over 25 years I guess. Firstly because it was the first thing that somehow reminded me to what it is, we are all actually looking for.

I've been in biblestudies, deep ones. lighter ones, had deep and empowering conversations with ministers from a lot of different flavors of Christian church in the Netherlands but at some point, it was always 'time for me to leave.'

Sometimes this was by choice, more often though, it was by 'being asked to stop asking those difficult questions or shut the fuck up (please) (cursing by me ). Some questions, are not to be asked in Christianity, we all are aware of that. What we are not aware of often, is that Christianity has a build in brainwashing device that has the goal of keeping people away from their full realization. What most of us do not realize is that our ancient teachers, which are now known to have been used by all western culture until "the shadow of the cross fell over Jerusalem "(Terence quote, have been made symbols of the devil and evil by 'our' church fathers. The reason for that was, to make sure people didn't look close at those symbols and figure out, that they were scammed.

I have come to a point personally, that I understand and believe the evidence as presented by (among other) http://www.pharmacratic-inquisition.com/main/ and the Jesus Mysteries and, of course the one who made the first discoveries leading to this trail, John Marco Allegro.

The evidence adds up in such a way that I now feel extremely empowered with an intellectual weapon which can be used to slap those Christians around the ears and reclaim our rights as citizens of this planet and having a relationship with the different allies living on her surface. It is a historic fact that our ancestors, the first Christians, where in fact wisdom seekers and had, just as everbody else back then in many cultures, a two layered cult of believe where the inner one involved an initiation of having a rebirth experience. What the controversial researchers want you to believe, that those immense spiritual awakenings (which are the basis for our curiosity for religion often) where reached by some profound theater performed, magically opening up these guys. What we often don't realize, is that people from those times, where as rational as we where and that, for example, 'a guy dieing on the cross and resurrecting after 3 days', was conceived as being a tale, just as smart people should believe in that in any time.

The real sacrament in those times, was a psychotropic substance, possibly psilocybin and the amanita.

I have attached a picture which I photoshopped myself from two pictures which I found while looking the internet for more evidence myself. This search costed 20 minutes and this is one the the 10 paintings I found which are, to my mind, clearly pointing towards the evidence in the dead sea rolls (for example). Also I want to point out, that many many many 'mysterious' quotings in the bible, make absolute sense with these new discoveries in mind, somehow, the puzzle has come together.

Anyone wanting to discuss this, please do yourself the favor of watching the 2004 presentation on the PI website first, it basically covers 90% of the story.


Love/peace
HC

PS In the past I have opted ideas here to found an organization to make this happen, reclaim our rights. I wish to share that this is actually happening now. Drug wars are much more an issue of human rights as defined by (among other), the European Union. The freedom of religion is granted by that. Nowhere is mentioned what this religion should entail and it cannot be that our sacraments are being made into the escapist drugs, which they clearly not are. Anyone who feels like supporting an official (international) organization which is looking to embrace this issue from a human rights point of view, feel free to contact me to see in what way you can contribute.

 

[Jahvisions]

Interesting stuff, but we have to be carefull to look for truths and facts because when we believe something we try to find prove that supports our own thinking. I think that a lot of things we can never no for sure and that it's useless to fight for these little differences rather then be tolerant and come togheter. We need freedom, equility and justice.

 

[HeartCore]

Did you actually look at the evidence? If you did, explain your doubts please and if you didn't, please check it for yourself before making assumptions about the conclusions drawn from that

 

[buffachino]

Amen, HeartCore, amen.
It’s been clear for anyone who has some degree of criticality and deep observation in their minds that the entire Christian faith, if not all modern religious fallacy that only seems to drive hate, has stemmed from a noble, mythic and psychedelic background.
Being brought up through Christian education has only exposed further how much this is simply based on pagan myth and personification pertaining to celestial bodies coupled with the holy act of psychedelic shamanism and the forums of the soul brought forward from these experiences. So sad that this arcane knowledge is lost to some extent through a diabolical network of control.
Give me a way in which I can help your proposed cause and I’ll be happy to oblige!

And Jahvisions; Evidence in any sense only intensifies that need for outside reassurance of your own belief and experience or lack thereof, and is what drives the blind faith of religion itself. Don’t take others statistical ‘understanding’ or ultimate perspectives as a need to stop searching for true meaning yourself. Concepts are more meaningful than facts.

Peace.

 

[tryptonaut]

The most obvious picture I have ever seen is this

 

[Guest]

Bump!

Just for the sake of our sacraments!

Very good start of the topic HC, I think we need some more concrete discussion points to make out how to do this.

I know the Dutch forum has the "Psychonaut Religion" topic.
But isn't religion the thing we didn't want/need?

It's obvious the angle of aproach would be to start a "religion" according to all the rules, this is the way with the most chance of getting something done.

BUT, it has to be open to everyone.
Religion is formed through a belief, some guidelines and rules and a basic set of principles.
But if that would be from Caduceus' point, then I think a lot of people won't except it.
His views although I admire them and in passion share them for the most, this is already too much religion.

I'm having troubles explaining this at the moment, but I hope this discussion will go further and ideas will come up.
I'll try to explain later.

No pun intended Caduceus, love your ways

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

BUT, it has to be open to everyone.
Religion is formed through a belief, some guidelines and rules and a basic set of principles.
But if that would be from Caduceus' point, then I think a lot of people won't except it.
His views although I admire them and in passion share them for the most, this is already too much religion.

I'm having troubles explaining this at the moment, but I hope this discussion will go further and ideas will come up.
I'll try to explain later.

No pun intended Caduceus, love your ways

I noticed this thread and post just now. Not sure which of my statements, ideas or suggestions the above is based upon.

 

[HeartCore]

Religion is formed through a belief, some guidelines and rules and a basic set of principles.
But if that would be from Caduceus' point, then I think a lot of people won't except it.
His views although I admire them and in passion share them for the most, this is already too much religion.

I see this a little different. The religions we relate the most to in our culture, are actually the poorest kind of religion there are in the sense of deep experience. To us western people, religion often is just nonsense or a joke at best. Two thousand years of degraded Christianity does that to a culture apparently. Anyway these religions we know best, do indeed need you to believe to make them seem to work. Maybe it's like the difference between hallucinogenic shamanism and non hallucinogenic shamanism. The latter seems to work but, needs 'magic' tricks to convince its audience whereas the hallucinogenic shaman ism is mostly experienced as real magic.

There is a direct link between those two and the comparison of literary Christianity with gnostic Christianity. We now know that gnostic Christianity was the original form of the religion and more importantly, in that time it was in complete sync with and tolerant to all other gnostic/mystic traditions. In the 4th century gnostic Christianity (and most other pagan religions) where wiped off the map and so literary Christianity prevailed and we got stuck with it until now. These are facts btw, it has been proven that all official letters of Paul, that is official as declared by the Vatican, are actually forgeries and Paul was in fact, a gnostic mystic. Scrolls that have been found and translated in the last century prove that without a doubt.

Gnostic Christianity did not take the bible as historic but completely allegoric. Actuially, the bible was not even in existence back then, stories where used to lure people into the cults and to prepare them for initiations. The scripture was the outer mystery, the initiation the inner mystery. What the method of initiation was, has only become clear very recently. It has been hinted at strongly since the second half of last century but as the evidence lies on the table now, we can actually prove that many of those initiations where induced by hallucinogens.

Gnostic Christians didn't have hard rules at all: men and women where usually equal and scripture was always less important than direct personal experience. Roles within the communities where often shifted around and nobody felt important enough to claim positions. So one would be priest one week and another one next week, either man or woman. Considering a lot of these groups actually used hallucinogens during their ceremonies, you can see how they shift the roles of responsibility (sitters) around so as to give everybody equal chance to experience their own personal rebirth.

So no rules here, no guidelines, just a safe spot to journey to the depths of oneself (for whoever who really wants that) without any obligation other than being nice to God (=ALL of us right?)

What's wrong with such a religion?
L&V
HC

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Roles within the communities where often shifted around and nobody felt important enough to claim positions. So one would be priest one week and another one next week, either man or woman. Considering a lot of these groups actually used hallucinogens during their ceremonies, you can see how they shift the roles of responsibility (sitters) around so as to give everybody equal chance to experience their own personal rebirth.

So no rules here, no guidelines, just a safe spot to journey to the depths of oneself

Amen!

 

[Guest]

Thank you HC!

 

[Thanatos]

The real sacrament in those times, was a psychotropic substance, possibly psilocybin and the amanita.

Maybe this book might be of interest too: “The Mystery of Manna; The Psychedelic Sacrament of the Bible

 

[GOD]

In the bible there is a very clear description of what manna looks like wich totaly rules out theory that it was any kind of ergot . Read the part in the bible about manna and then read elsewhere what ergot looks like , how it grows and where it grows .- The writter of that book was a historian and not a botanist or chemist . The type of ergot that does not poison you does not grow in the sinai dessert .

 

[HeartCore]

In the bible there is a very clear description of what manna looks like wich totaly rules out theory that it was any kind of ergot . Read the part in the bible about manna and then read elsewhere what ergot looks like , how it grows and where it grows .- The writter of that book was a historian and not a botanist or chemist . The type of ergot that does not poison you does not grow in the sinai dessert .

It's apparently also described as a blue substance which can be kept for generations. Will find the exact reference when I feel better but it very much hints at psiilocybin mushrooms stored in honey and which stay active for generations.

 

[Thanatos]

I already had my doubts about this part of the story, but I thought it was relevant to mention.

In the bible there is a very clear description of what manna looks like wich totaly rules out theory that it was any kind of ergot .

According to Merkur manna looked like a flaky pastry or biscuit. There is also a description as being like coriander seeds, white, and tastes like wafers made with honey (Exod. 16:31).

But if manna was bread it could still be true?: Ergot is a fungus growing on certain grains and grasses. The fungus might not have been visible with the naked eye, but the lysergic acid amides would diffuse into the bread (they are water soluble). Only I would guess that the fungus will die by baking the bread, and the LSA would also disintegrate. Maybe it can grow on the bread after it has been baked. According to Merkur, the bread/manna was eaten on the Sabbath, a full week after it was baked.

Ergotism was a common problem in earlier times. One of the characteristics of ergotism is hallucinations and psychotic like symptoms… Maybe some cultures found a way to get rid of the toxins. Merkur says that in antiquity it was easy to prepare a psychedelic extract from ergot, which contain only the water-soluble psychedelics. Which was safe to take.

As I said, I don't believe it too much. There are too many inconsistencies, but since we are looking for psychedelics-use in Christianity, I wanted to contribute.

The writter of that book was a historian and not a botanist or chemist .

I would not underestimate him though. He did some considerable research in the psychology of the religious experience and psychedelics. He is not in my top 10 list, but I thought he would fit in this thread.

 

[Thanatos]

By the way, the story about manna is just one part of his book. Another part covers an analysis of the Bible, where according to him, there are a lot of references to psychedelics.

For example, the story of Eden. He claims that the apple, from which Adam and Eve ate, was a symbol for a psychedelic: Jahwhe said: “… for on the day you eat of it you shall die

 

[GOD]

HeartCore ,

"It's apparently also described as a blue substance which can be kept for generations. Will find the exact reference when I feel better but it very much hints at psiilocybin mushrooms stored in honey and which stay active for generations."

I would be very pleased if you can find that info , it sounds interesting . And it sounds like you are ill at the moment ? So take your time and take care of yourself . If you are ill at the moment i hope you get well soon .

I have got a few things i`d like to say on what you and Thanatos have said but i will wait untill you have found your references so i can read them and think about them first .

 

[buffachino]

The forbidden fruit sounds a lot like the amanita muscaria to me, the tree of life could represent the stalk of the mushroom itself or even the nova point for the beginning of consciousness on a doctrinaire religious, allegorical and mystical basis.
Also, to say that mushrooms or psychoactive plants could not survive in the Sinai desert is subject to the instance of time at the period when the sequence of events happened. Is it not possible that the earth could have been on a subtly different axis of rotation whilst other celestial interactions and the movement of plate tectonics interacted with the climate in that area 2000 years ago? If so, the idea of mushrooms or other psychoactives growing in the area now known as the Sinai desert would not be so preposterous. Just a theory, but it could explain the existence of a psychoactive ‘mana’ in this area that was partaken in by the Israelites. Also the description of it sounds very much like a dried cap of a mushroom of some sort.

Either way, the subject still remains that the religious institutions or the pious remnants of them began with the worship of the celestial and the microcosmic physical embodiment of these heavenly phenomena in psychoactives to commune with the divine and enrich their lives in all aspects.

Peace.

 

[JosVU]

I never read the bible and i don't know anything about other religions but the following paintings are pretty clear to me. In every continent there are tribes where mushrooms are being worshipped for countless of reasons. And that is going on for quite some time.

Right upper corner, left from the fire.

http://www.egodeath.com/christianmushroomtrees.htm#_Toc134497577

http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgu...art=20&gbv=2&ndsp=20&svnum=10&um=1&hl=nl&sa=N

Maya

9000BC cave picture 9000 BC Northen Africa

Adam and eve

Big red amanita in the back, and a small want at the right of a royal baby jesus?