Quoi de neuf ?

Bienvenue sur Psychonaut.fr !

Le forum des amateurs de drogues et des explorateurs de l'esprit

Just Drugs

  • Auteur de la discussion Auteur de la discussion No-Key
  • Date de début Date de début

No-Key

Glandeuse Pinéale
Inscrit
17/12/06
Messages
138
Lately, I've been thinking about the nature of drug use, at least as it exists in the United States, and also the nature our perception plays in distorting it.

To look at it pragmatically, drug use corresponds to a desire for the effect of a drug, but over time (and even before use) this motivation changes. There are kids being indoctrinated by useless police officers from kindergarten onward in DARE programs here, so from the get go they have a highly stigmatized outlook. And of course, kids aren't aware enough to do anything but believe what an authority figure is telling them, especially when they have absolutely no first hand knowledge about any of what is being told to them.

So right off the bat, we begin our personal perception of drugs with a viewpoint which is obviously biased, but also stratifying. When you tell a group of 4th graders that drugs are bad, and the belief held by every influence in the community you exist in is that they are bad; eventually the kids who everyone calls "bad" anyway for whatever reasons, will make this conclusion. Then, eventually more and more kids will either adopt a fuck-off attitude to those liar authorities, and move on and on down a contrarian path to the Bullshit.

Already, something as simple as smoking pot in order to have fun, laugh with friends, and make funions taste good, is demonized and serves to polarize people into distinct in-out groups. Drug use ceases to be for effect on a mass level, and becomes a social act of separation and a vain attempt to establish identity in the teen years.

And it isn't because there is a taboo, because there are mostly unbroken taboos everywhere. We don't run around fucking our sisters and shit like that just because someone tells us not to. It's the original pragmatic allure of Effect which makes drug use different, and then the concept of the taboo is only applied later.

Now there are anti-drug commercials which don't even have to fucking spew bullshit lies. They have a logo, they have taken some cues from evil bastard corporate culture and realized that they don't have to make sense or be rational, because if they were they wouldn't be crusading in the first place, so now all they need is a spiffy logo to insert into pictures of kids who look "scene" or "metal" or whateverthefuck.

ugh, I wish I could find a video of it online somewhere, because it's difficult to describe it for its lack of continuity, but it spurred this writing. There was no message, there were no words or spoken lines, just image after image of hip, attractive, "alt" kids, doing stuff. Kids with dreadlocks riding skateboards, punkers with liberty spikes and shit, girls with stylish red streaks in their jet black hair, and then this constant intermittent flashing of the "Y do U Think" logo.

I know when I was in middle school I had to watch "Channel 1" which is this god-awful 15-minute session of advertisements for soda, deodorant, and anti-drug spots or the like. This commercial, which if it were put on multiple TVs and everyone's eyes were being manipulated open by sharp pokey things could definitely be construed as a tool of brainwashing, is probably flashed before the eyes of millions of students every single day (they run the same commercials into the ground, sometimes over the course of years).

What are we doing? Why are we trying to fucking turn every single thing in every kids life into some fucking decision about rejecting big bad drugs?

The passive message of all these commercials is this: Good kids don't do drugs. Bad kids do drugs. Smart, outgoing, extraverted, future-successes don't do drugs, while failures do.

And since it isn't like they're fucking fighting a war on heroin or crack in our schools, I think it's pretty easy to figure out that even the word "Drug" has had its meaning altered, in order to encompass harmless substances like pot and pscilocybin mushrooms, and then lump them in with heroin and crack and shit like that. So just everywhere you see the word "drug" replace it with marijuana, cause that is by far their main concern.

But really man, I don't remember pot making anyone ever shoot up a school.
But, I do remember a couple of times where this disturbingly repressed and violent society has turned out some of that ilk.

Everyone seems to be of some opinion on some side, with the minority arguing the merits of marijuana and psychedelic use, the vast majority arguing that it will undo and unmake all social progress,

and then this message, which is my contention: Drugs are just drugs. Everything we think about them, we either bring to the table or take away from it. That is all.
 
That is called 'propaganda'.

There isn't much we, and specially you that live there, can do. Those guys own or run TV channels so they can continue with their brain wash with advertisments and false propaganda.

That's their only way to keep people blind from the truth, since most people there watch tv. And ofcourse send some inocent and humble teens to jail so they can show some "proof" that this "War on drugs" is some "serious buisness".

Truth and justice will come to the surface some day. And against facts there can't be any argument. And that's what they Don't have. Facts.

Since you live there, talk to people about these kind of knowledge, and help take the bandanas off people eyes.
 
Everyone you talk to is polarized here.

They have been effectively propagandized, and refute any outside input, or they have utterly refuted the propaganda.


And there aren't many in the middle at all.....


I lay a lot of the blame on a sloppiness in the way the English language is used, a term that Robert Anton Wilson would call 'semantic noise'.....


If a 'doctor' prescribed it, or if your mother gave it to you, it's 'medicine'

If you decided to do it on your own, it's 'drugs'....


What's the war really on?


:idea:
 
Well if there is one thing President Bush has taught us is that you can use drugs and than be President.

I went to Public Schools for 8 years, K-8 and it was at that time that I realized that gov ran schools don't teach you what you need to know, they teach you what they want you to know. I believe that public schools are mostly just brainwashing you.

You pretty much nailed it on the head though. "Bad people do drugs."
Just wait until people start realizing the so called "War on Drugs" is a way of the government to brainwash and control us.

It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
 
for some people liberty has $ involved for the achievement of the first. sometimes they forget that the original goal was liberty and confuse the goal with the means to reach the goal....

peace.
 
No-Key a dit:
Drug use ceases to be for effect on a mass level, and becomes a social act of separation and a vain attempt to establish identity in the teen years.

And what is interesting about this point is that kids who use these substances in this way have no training or knowledge of how to get anything out of them, and end up wasting the experience, if not hurting themselves in the process.

Know how many psychedelic users I've met who don't even know whom Albert Hoffman is, much less really anything about the history of psychedelic research, etc? Know how many psychedelic users I've met who've never done a closed-eye solo trip, and have no idea what the difference is?

The propaganda works quite well!
 
st.bot.32 a dit:
Know how many psychedelic users I've met who've never done a closed-eye solo trip, and have no idea what the difference is?

What's the difference? I've done solo trips but no closed-eye ones... not that I didn't try, but my eyes just instinctively open themselves. I don't see what is so interesting with the eyes closed... I just see colors... maybe I haven't tried a high enough dosage yet :rolleyes:

Anyway, in my last shroom trip, which was my biggest one, there was so much going on in my head that I wasn't really paying attention to what I was seeing. I just sometimes noticed that my eyes were open, then thought "hey! it's supposed to be much more interesting with the eyes closed!". Then I'd close my eyes, and 5 minutes later notice they are open again.
 
Ah, well for me the closed-eye visual trip particularly on acid is where you can get practically buried in layers of.. the closest thing I could describe would be semi-lucid fantastical dreams.. often feeling like my body has vanished entirely. Also experimenting with the synesthesic side of psychedelics, like trying a bit of music, different kinds of music, touch, massage, taste, any sensory information that cross over and sometimes become visuals..

It's true though, some people only see weird geometry when they close their eyes..

In any case, I guess in the above post I phrased it wrong, I didn't mean tripping with eyes closed but more the solo, introspective trip as opposed to the social/party trip, both of which are vastly different spaces..
 
With closed eyes, ones mind is not as limited by its conventional dependence upon 'externally' perceived stimuli; therefore, one can relinquish perceptual boundaries more easily. This way, one is more able to voyage deeper than would be the case if the mind was preoccupied with arbitrarily processing stimuli in an expanded state of consciousness.
Just my 2 cents.

And yes, propaganda = cognitive blindfold;
Kind of the ironic converse to what were talking about when it comes to closing your eyes while tripping, lol!
 
buffachino a dit:
With closed eyes, ones mind is not as limited by its conventional dependence upon 'externally' perceived stimuli; therefore, one can relinquish perceptual boundaries more easily. This way, one is more able to voyage deeper than would be the case if the mind was preoccupied with arbitrarily processing stimuli in an expanded state of consciousness.
Just my 2 cents.

And yes, propaganda = cognitive blindfold;
Kind of the ironic converse to what were talking about when it comes to closing your eyes while tripping, lol!

I like Terence take on this in relation to psilocybin:

"Psilocybin is best taken in silent darkness. Silent darkness since you are going to observe an internal phenomenon which will become more clear, the more you take away external stimuli.
 
I tend to think of it less in the sense of being distracted by external stimuli, and more in the sense that it is easier to fall into a deep trance. You are unable to fall asleep due to the effects of the mushies or the tab, and end up lingering at the threshold of being awake while feeling the effects of the psychedelic.

If you don't know how to relax and let go, it might be difficult to get into this state. And btw, I know psychedelic users who do much higher doses than myself and have never done this, for them the trip remains social and outward.

I've definitely met surprise from psychedelic users when I say I love to trip alone. For me it isn't so much about being "alone", it is about the depth of the places I can only go to when I'm not being distracted. The focus of the voyage is completely different right from the start.
 
st.bot.32 a dit:
I've definitely met surprise from psychedelic users when I say I love to trip alone. For me it isn't so much about being "alone", it is about the depth of the places I can only go to when I'm not being distracted. The focus of the voyage is completely different right from the start.

My friend thinks im an asshole because I smoke pot alone, he's kinda shallow.
 
Oracle a dit:
My friend thinks im an asshole because I smoke pot alone, he's kinda shallow.

Yeah, I honestly prefer to smoke pot alone. Especially when I'm doing something creative, or reading. That's how I get the most out of it.
 
i honestly don't like people who think one is an asshole just because he smokes too much pot alone. but i don't mind about them for being uneducated in the subject ganja... but if they bark at you for themselves being shallow... fuck them

though i prefer smoking with people, for not being lonely... but sometimes i even feel lonely when smoking with people... it's just that i had sometimes tried to sedate the loneliness feeling in myself with weed, although i knew it was wrong.
but that brought me to the feeling of real loneliness and that's so strong that i sometimes even feel it when it comes up when people are around me...
soooo well yeah i know i am too lonely and smoking too much weed...
but still i haven't really figured out how to handle the "felt" loneliness when around other people. lately i went deeper into the high feeling and felt that the fear of not being able to overcome that when being high and around people is illusion. so yeah maybe my plan to prevent myself become emotionally dead like many other people around me by smoking lots of weed is maybe bad, but until now it's the best plan :P

peace :weedman:
 
BrainEater a dit:
lately i went deeper into the high feeling and felt that the fear of not being able to overcome that when being high and around people is illusion. so yeah maybe my plan to prevent myself become emotionally dead like many other people around me by smoking lots of weed is maybe bad, but until now it's the best plan :P

Yeah, and part of getting really high is that whatever you are feeling and focusing on is amplified greatly. Such is the beauty and power of cannabis, but also why I don't like using it just for the heck of it. If you are feeling fear of something, getting really high will cause you to become afraid of the fear itself, building into a feedback loop of fear.. been there, oof.

Anyways..

I can only get really high generally when I'm by myself (especially when eating cannabis, its like as intense and visual as 2-3grams of mushies sometimes). Then it isn't so much about being alone, as just being able to get to mental states/places without being distracted by others. For example, making a piece of music, reading a book, exploring my senses in general, etc.

When I get too high around people I generally just can't be social, and I feel like I'm wasting the experience in two ways--first I'm distracted from the creative potential of what I can do when I'm high, second I'm distracted from my friends whom I'd rather just spend time with. Bleh all around, not for me.
 
Cannabis commonly uncovers social tendencies and attitudes that were previously ignored or suppressed; and in respect to the aforementioned amplification of awareness that cannabis can bring, these become blatantly apparent. So rather than skulk away or ignore these now clear implications, I would say that it is more beneficial to take the opportunity to work on them, especially in the presence of people who you have issues in dealing with , stoned or otherwise. And if they make a joke of it, it shows that they themselves are more afraid than they seem. I think the potential for self reflection and healing when high goes far beyond the recognitive degree of those that take the experience for granted.

Generally though, one should partake in the experience with those who empathize with ones explorative intent, and respect conditions in which one may feel less than social.
 
exactly buffachino!... it's just that sometimes i don't wanna see people's self reflection in me, when i am sensitive in empathy... but also sometimes i don't wanna see my self reflection in others, because i don't like what i see or how i am reflected...
i am trying to overcome this side of my self though and i find it highly interesting, but sometimes it's too much for my nerves. :mrgreen:
additionally i seem like you say take the experience for granted too much as i smoke quite often...

also sometimes when really stoned i go in the center of the city to see all the people there and the government and i have the impression that the war is really on... peace ...
but i feel like that nobody really knows or wants war it's just confused communication, because of culture and language barriers and mistrust and for sure good old ignorance. of course because of stupidity or in-the-box-thinking too.
i hope they figure it out ...

peace.
 
buffachino a dit:
Generally though, one should partake in the experience with those who empathize with ones explorative intent, and respect conditions in which one may feel less than social.

I totally agree, and I'm definitely lucky in this way sometimes. Unfortunately it is often difficult to find people who want to explore on Cannabis, most treat it as a cheap way to get off on a Friday night. The social stigma of cannabis use totally seeps down to the level of the users, who think of it as just another substance alongside alcohol and cigarettes, and tend to do low doses very frequently, undermining the potential of the substance IMO. It sounds like I'm judging, I'm not. If it works for them, fine, that is just not what I want out of it.

I do love doing Cannabis with others when we are actually exploring something, for example making music or involved in some kind of creative process. Those have been some of my best experiences on cannabis and psychedelics in general ever. The potential for deep communication is so great.

I also agree it is best not to shy away from difficult experiences, but sometime you have to take them a little bit at a time, rather than just plunging in and overwhelming yourself, thereby worsening the situation. Instead of trying to run through the brick wall, it is best to chip away at it a bit at a time. If you've had "weed paranoia", you know how deep it can go and how long it can affect you, just as much as any bad trip.
 
i loved sitting on the couch and smoking weed for days with friends .... just having fun talking or not talking... whatever :weedman:
 
Retour
Haut