Jesus Camp

[Guest]

Please do not see this as a provocation, there are believers that don't do these things to kids.
This trailer demonstrates a child camp that I think is sheer indoctrination of children and this kind of spreading of faith to kids should be illegal
I just saw this trailer and it bothered me.
Jesus Camp

I'm not saying that anybody who is a christian is bad, but this kind of preaching is not good.
Look at some of the reactions: kids getting into a trance and shaking heavilly and the female yelling: WAR! WAR! WAR! and a girl starts crying.

This is damaging to a childs life.

I'm not shure psychonautic news is the right place to post though, mod's feel free to move in case of any discontent about this post.

 

[amoak]

Christianity is insanity and devilish like all other religions . Cosmos , light and life are our gods , and we don t need to do nothing , we are already inside them .

 

[forest]

i can't agree with you there amoak, it's not the religion, nor the philosophy. just the way people put it into practice.

if someone would say; ''ayahuasca is insanity and devilesh, just like all other drugs.''
wouldn't you tell them that there is a difference between speed and aya, that you can't call it all under one name?

 

[ararat]

oh man I hate such fanatics. my uncle is one too. I don't even know how much children he has, must be thousands xD. they are in a sect and so on.


forest: I agree. Christanity is something where people can adhere in bad times (I know that because of my grandmother. she had a bad time when I and my cousin sufferd from cancer. erm, suffered is the wrong word, we still suffer..). but fanaticism isn't good, in no way.

do you want to know what our uncle said to us (I and my cousin)? he said that we deserved it (the cancer stuff), god wants to change our lives. we did bad things, and god wants to open our eyes O.O I developed such hate that moment..

 

[Pazusu]

I prefer the preaching of Maria Montessori: give children the chance to learn from their own ideas. I see a lot of parents not letting children being themselves, but who they want their children to be.

In my opinion it's not the religion that makes it bad. It's the values of the parents and the (unconcious) abuse of power over their children.

I think it's good there are programmes on TV nowadays like super-nanny and so. It's hard to be a good parent when you are in the middle of it. And necessary to look at it from a distance once in a while. See the difference between mindwashing and minddeveloping.

Here is another issue: what about the religion of psychedelics? At what age?

...

 

[JohnP.]

i still don't get it: is it a documentary about a jesus camp or a provocative film about ignorant indoctrination where the director had the idea of a fictional "jesus (or bible) camp"?

In any way it must be interesting...

Couldn't agree more with you forest, it's how the people put it in practice; even though i have my personal idea about the christian religions, but this is the news thread so it's not the right place to discuss it...

 

[amoak]

But i think is not good people look at gods like a humans force, it s egocentric , and religion are power and try to control society with stupidy christmas storys , and a religion that made people feel sad and make people think that nature and stars are only landscapes and put the humans feeling lik kings and put the earth like center of universe(like when they kill Copernico and all the South America societys) ,and say that we are here to take care of the planet but maybe is the planet that take care of us i think , is totaly egocentric religion , and also make people think that the world story is inside a stupid book wrote by stupid power rich people . And we talk about one big enterprise called Vaticano . I prefer believe in LIFE .

 

[amoak]

I would like to say that i respect you , Forest , but in my opinion i think almost religion are very egocentrics and I think nobody needs a priest or guide or even a book to find spirituality , we only need to open ours eyes is everything here with us if you want to see , we have only to trust on life.

 

[HeartCore]

Although its true that not al christians are the same, to my mind its all the same bullshit.

Just have a look at the insanity the call the Vaticaan and how they kill people by ill advice (condoms/aids).

Just look at the history of the christian religion, bloodshed, bloodshed, bloodshed all to tell other people how they should behave.

There are documents that show how Spanish christians got the order to kill any aboriginal who took mushrooms as a religious practice. Its NOT thanks to christianity that we KNOW about mushrooms. Same thing happened before in Europe where effectively almost all plantknowledge was burned with people at stakes.

Kathars where killed, Kathars where maybe the most humble and loving christian religions ever. Since the church didnt like it, they killed them all. And many more as the pope at the time commented: God will find out above, which one goes to hell and which one goes to heaven so it doesnt matter if we burn an entire city.

Current conflict in the middle east. Those fucking clowns who teach your kids in the christian schools, teach them that Israel survives because ISRAEL IS THE FAVORITE RACE OF GOD. Dont underestimate this point, its very real and, in my opinion, very wrong. I was 16 when I moved to a 'normal' school and found out that it wasnt God who was taking Israel by the hand but the US.

There are many leads that suggest the church has been repressing use of enhteogenic plants for centuries but at the same time they used these plants themselves.

Christianity is just barbaric.

And dont make the mistake to think that the Vatican has become move human. What they have become, is POLITICAL CORRECT.

Cheers
HC

PS yes I do have a problem with christian religion, sue me

ps: hmm this could have been less reactive but hey, its just my opinion

 

[forest]

i think you only see the religions the way people have presented them in history, not the true nature. many religions also agree in what you say, just used different ways of speaking, invluesnced by the way people were at that time in history.

for the rest, i totally agree with;

'' think nobody needs a priest or guide or even a book to find spirituality , we only need to open ours eyes is everything here with us if you want to see , we have only to trust on life.''

 

[forest]

you only look as far as you want to look, and obviously you are not willing to see the whole picture.
you have to make a difference, just as with drugs. who told people to kill other people in the name of christ? it were people. it wasn't jesus, who started it all and was the only one who understuud it all. like i said, the way people have put it into practice is really bad, like you say, criminal, or whatever. but you are only looking at what people do. not going to the beginning, to the source, to the thing that are truly important.

 

[forest]

if you go deep enough, you find that all religions are no different from psychonautic philosophy, or wich other. only the mask is different. (to my opinion).

 

[HeartCore]

you only look as far as you want to look, and obviously you are not willing to see the whole picture

To my mind, the whole picture is that the romans stole pagan religion, made it their own, created Jesus build upon all those pagan stories and used it to control the masses. How much more picture is there? Jesus story just doesnt hold up at all. And if it would be only me, freaking theologians admit it. Ofcourse they have there own little stories on how to fit it in (its the work of the devil and more non arguments).

I put a lot of effort in becoming a christian a long time ago. Dont assume I only look at the surface. I've been an active member of various different christian churches from the heaviest and most restrictive, to the more free rainbowlike communities. At the time, I was really committed in finding Jesus, followed biblestudies, had long, very long sunday night conversations with the minister.

i think you only see the religions the way people have presented them in history, not the true nature. many religions also agree in what you say, just used different ways of speaking, invluesnced by the way people were at that time in history.

The true nature of christianity is a big lie, thats my point. Jesus never existed, thats what I'm convinced of after looking at the evidence. 'The Jesus mysteries' is an eyeopener regarding this.

if you go deep enough, you find that all religions are no different from psychonautic philosophy, or wich other. only the mask is different. (to my opinion).

I dont agree at all with that. Psychonautic philosophy is about personal direct experience while christianity is about a big guild trip laid upon you by the people in charge. There is no direct personal experience of the divine in christianity, there is no way to visit the mystery in person. Ofcourse the underlaying philosophy matches, thats because all religion comes from the same source. And that source is, too my mind, entheogenic plants. The evidence for that is pretty convincing (to me ).

No personal attack to you Forest btw.

 

[forest]

it is funny, you have been a christian and tried to be a good one, and i have hated christianity very very much for years(negative-obsession like), and here we are, me trying to convince you of the good of christian philosophy, and you defending the opposide.

to my opinion there is direct experiance of the divine, and ''visit the mistiry of a person''. and i am talking about that underlying phylosophy you talk about, wich is , like you say, from the same scource.

the only difference in our way of seeing things is that i don't think that that scource is Only entheogenic plants. (but plants are a very nice way of going to the scource ^_^ )

 

[Guest]

the only difference in our way of seeing things is that i don't think that that scource is Only entheogenic plants. (but plants are a very nice way of going to the scource ^_^ )

One of the best imho, accompanied by shrooms ofcourse

I've put a lot of time, effort and energy in becomming a christian and finding jesus to, but all that time I came further and further away from it.
Gathering knowledge and finding out what exactly was wrong with christianity and the last few years my eyes have been opened so much more.

Finally after long search came the answers...

 

[HeartCore]

it is funny, you have been a christian and tried to be a good one, and i have hated christianity very very much for years(negative-obsession like), and here we are, me trying to convince you of the good of christian philosophy, and you defending the opposide.

Hehehe this brought a big smile to my face.

to my opinion there is direct experiance of the divine, and ''visit the mistiry of a person''. and i am talking about that underlying phylosophy you talk about, wich is , like you say, from the same scource.

the only difference in our way of seeing things is that i don't think that that scource is Only entheogenic plants. (but plants are a very nice way of going to the scource ^_^ )

I'm actually talking about the source of religion. Are you familiar with Terence Mckenna's theory regarding the evolution of human consciousness out of our primate ancestors? This theory suggests that a psychedelic mushroom was accidentally added to the diet and because of manu advantages, it was kept in the diet. This caused the birth of partnership society, religion and art. The argumentation is to me, not a professional at all, very plausible.

Besides that there is evidence that suggests that in ancient greek, the womb of modern society, people engaged once in their live's in a psychedelic ritual most likely provoked by ergot.

Then there's the Soma theory which claims to prove that Indian hindoeisme was completely based on the use of a psychedelic plant for the first 3000 years of its existance.

John Allegro tried to do the same with christianity and claimed he did proof that christianity sprung from an ancient cult that collected mushrooms from caves and created the character of Jesus to mislead the authorities.

I dont know. To me it sounds true enough and especially Terence theory which I've read over and over again, sounds very convincing.

I don't believe however, that you can only get a religious experience with psychedelics. There are many ways a religious experience can happen, drugs, sickness, poison, meditation, accident-neardeath experience, dance etc etc...

What I am suggesting is that if you go way back to the initial source of religion, very back to the roots of our humaness, you will eventually find a psychedelic plant.

 

[MindAstronaut]

oh man this is not teaching kids of whats right or wrong this is just brainwashing kids, poluting there young clean minds with that crap.

why dont they raise up kids whitout any kind of religion till they are old and whise enough to decide what kind of religion they want for themselfs.

But these camps are just a way of putting terror into childeren this is not convincing them that there is a jezus who's going to save them but more in a way that jezus is going to kill them and let them burn in hell if they don't believe in him.

Anyway this is more something for a cult not for a camp


PeaCe..

 

[Forkbender]

But i think is not good people look at gods like a humans force, it s egocentric , and religion are power and try to control society with stupidy christmas storys , and a religion that made people feel sad and make people think that nature and stars are only landscapes and put the humans feeling lik kings and put the earth like center of universe(like when they kill Copernico and all the South America societys) ,and say that we are here to take care of the planet but maybe is the planet that take care of us i think , is totaly egocentric religion , and also make people think that the world story is inside a stupid book wrote by stupid power rich people . And we talk about one big enterprise called Vaticano . I prefer believe in LIFE .

Though I admire your believe in life, I cannot comprehend why you would waste it being mad at other people's ideas. That puts you right next to the people in the Vatican. BTW, Copernicus wasn't murdered by the church, get your facts straight before you say something.

 

[Forkbender]

But i think is not good people look at gods like a humans force, it s egocentric , and religion are power and try to control society with stupidy christmas storys , and a religion that made people feel sad and make people think that nature and stars are only landscapes and put the humans feeling lik kings and put the earth like center of universe(like when they kill Copernico and all the South America societys) ,and say that we are here to take care of the planet but maybe is the planet that take care of us i think , is totaly egocentric religion , and also make people think that the world story is inside a stupid book wrote by stupid power rich people . And we talk about one big enterprise called Vaticano . I prefer believe in LIFE .

Though I admire your believe in life, I cannot comprehend why you would waste it being mad at other people's ideas. That puts you right next to the people in the Vatican. BTW, Copernicus wasn't murdered by the church, get your facts straight before you say something.

 

[amoak]

I think you dont have understand , Forkbender , I m not mad with other people ideas ,i love to listen others ideas and to learn with them , but like i said to Forest i respect him and all others ideas but i said i think they are all egocentric and focus in human power and they are all very very distant from life respect and universe logic , they are trying to make politic , and i repeat nobody need priest or guide or storys to be with the Divine.

I think is bad and egoist look at gods like a human , we are so little here man , this is to big for us

and about copercinus it wasn t direct murdered by churchs , but he was cherched bu the Inquisition ecclesiastical court they had try to delete heliocentric system theory because church only believe in ptolomeu theory (geocentrism) The chruch only had accept because the pression of peolple and scientists and the logical facts that copernicus present to papa Clemente Vll in 1553 only 10 years before he died .